Destiny Hall - Keeping the Mars Movement alive

Palomar · 2002-09-12 10:09:16

A gentleman would bring his bride to the Altar. She would place her elbows onto the Altar, oriented in such a way that she is looking directly forward at the Great Globe. Her husband would then lift up the back of her wedding dress and copulate her.
This is the first time in a long time I actually burst out laughing from reading something someone wrote. On a day like today, any laughter is at a premium, so thank you.
You, clark... As much as I want to see human settlement of Mars, some of the enthusiasts are pretty weird.

*LOL! Agreed, A.J. "What a fool believes." And you've got to wonder about certain people's obsession with sexual rites...are they not getting any or something?

--Cindy

Scott G. Beach · 2002-09-12 13:29:01

This is the first time in a long time I actually burst out laughing from reading something someone wrote. On a day like today, any laughter is at a premium, so thank you.

Mr. Armitage:

In this Forum, I have proposed that birth, marriage, and death rituals be performed in a building named Destiny Hall. The birth and death rituals that I proposed have not been been responded to in impassioned terms. In contrast, the marriage ritual that I proposed, which includes sexual intercourse, has been very controversial. At first, I regarded the impassioned responses to the marriage ritual that I proposed as a manifestation of Americans' inability to deal with sexual topics in a mature manner. However, I now believe that these responses are the result of a low level of awareness about the global diversity in marriage rituals.

If the people who regularly participate in this Forum had taken anthropology classes about human reproduction then they would probably regard my proposal as "tame" rather than as "weird". For comparison, I offer an example of a marriage ritual that is definitely not "tame". In "Design Principles for Extraterrestrial Communities," Magoroh Maruyama wrote about marriage rituals in the Marquise Islands: "On the day of the wedding, the bride gave a sexual farewell party to her old friends: she lay down, and her old friends lined up for their last intercourse with her. The longer the line, the prouder the bridegroom."

I am glad that I was able to bring a bit of laughter to your September 11th, a day that you Americans have good reason to be somber on.

Scott

Palomar · 2002-09-12 14:32:03

Scott writes: At first, I regarded the impassioned responses to the marriage ritual that I proposed as a manifestation of Americans' inability to deal with sexual topics in a mature manner.

*This coming from a guy whose sexual ideas are the epitome of maturity! Yes, it's so obvious that your society and nation of birth [which would be -- ?] has done an EXEMPLARY job of instilling sexual maturity in you, i.e. wondering if 13-year-olds on Mars should routinely get knocked up or not, and if people should publically copulate on Mars. Bravo! Hint: Obsession with sexuality and sexual practices ISN'T mature.

AND BY THE WAY, two of the first three people to respond [UNfavorably] to your initial post AREN'T Americans; one is Australian and the other is from England. Hint: Your anti-American bias is showing, dear!

Scott writes: I am glad that I was able to bring a bit of laughter to your September 11th, a day that you Americans have good reason to be somber on.

*Oh, we're so very appreciative, Scott. Really. We are. Keep the laughs coming, I'm sure that won't be difficult for you to manage.

You are passively hostile, and your uppity faux politeness doesn't fool me; I can HEAR you looking down your nose at Americans. Snob.

--Cindy

Phobos · 2002-09-12 18:46:49

Your highly stylised ritual inseminations in a building modelled on that of an ancient pantheistic, pagan religion, with an emphasis on the continuation through the generations of devotion to an ideal, just happened to put me in mind of Heinrich Himmler.

I think this was one of Hitler's foremost ideas, the need for there to be some kind of ritualistic, paganistic ideal in society that could focus peoples emotions in a manner friendly to the state. Since Hitler hated Christianity and all other religions with Jewish origins he had to build up a new religion that embodied (or was made to embody) the ideals of National Socialism. Hindu symbolism and Nordic mythology seemed to fit the bill nicely which is a shame because you can't discuss Nordic mythology without someone accusing you of being a Nazi.

A.J.Armitage · 2002-09-12 19:23:34

ecrasez_l_infame;

*LOL! Agreed, A.J.

I think I know why. Mars presents itself as a blank slate, so wannabe "sociocultural designers" think they can come up with fanciful ideas, basically the same way SF writers do, but then expect they might be adopted. I'm sure you have some familiarity with Burke; his thoughts are appropriate here. Let the Martians grow their own culture. One person thousands of miles away cannot know everything he'd need to know. For that matter, one mind cannot know everything needed for a society. And even if it could, why should one person's preferences matter more than those of the people who are going to actually live in the Martian culture?

Contrary to what our would-be "sociocultural designers" think, they don't have a blank slate. First, it's not their slate, since they aren't Martians. Second, the slate won't be nearly as blank as it appears at first. Mars isn't going to be settled by Amazonian tribesmen or some other group some anthropologist studied, nor will it be settled by ten-year-olds supervised by a few philosophers. The ultimate change of skies will not change the backgrounds of the people who go there. Other than a few principles of justice which apply everywhere and always, those of us on Earth have nothing to say.

A.J.Armitage · 2002-09-12 19:31:50

In this Forum, I have proposed that birth, marriage, and death rituals be performed in a building named Destiny Hall. The birth and death rituals that I proposed have not been been responded to in impassioned terms. In contrast, the marriage ritual that I proposed, which includes sexual intercourse, has been very controversial.

It's the weirdest part of a weird proposal. But really, the whole idea of people going off and prancing around like Martians is risible. Now, do you want to create fodder for parodists, or do you want humans to settle on Mars?

Scott G. Beach · 2002-09-12 20:58:59

Cindy: you wrote that I have wondered "if 13-year-olds on Mars should routinely get knocked up or not, and if people should publically copulate on Mars." In another section of the New Mars Forum, I noted that the people of Iran recently raised the minimum marriage age for females from 9 to 13 and raised the minimum marriage age for males from 14 to 15. The issue of the minimum marriage age is highly relevant for Mars because Martians will be exposed to larger doses of ionizing radiation. Since the probability of birth defects increases with length of exposure, it might therefore be public policy on Mars to encourage people to marry and reproduce as soon as they are biologically able to do so. If early marriage were typical on Mars then family residences would probably contain three, four, or perhaps even five generations of people who are related by blood and/or marriage. The architectural consequences of this policy are significant because the minimum size of a family residence on Mars would be larger than those that are typically found in industrialized countries on Earth.

The subject of public copulation was raised by Shaun. In a subsequent post, I explained to Shaun that I envisioned Destiny Hall as having a set of bronze doors that can be latched from the inside, thus giving newlyweds the option of consummating their marriage in Destiny Hall in private. I suppose that newlyweds could invite some or all of the members of their wedding party to accompany them to Destiny Hall to witness the consummation but it had not occurred to me to propose that. And even if that became common on Mars it would still be a "tame" marriage ritual when compared to some of the marriage rituals on Earth.

The doors of Destiny Hall are very important parts of the whole structure. I envision those doors as having numerous rectangular panels that, in pictures, tell the story of the quest to know and explore. The bottom panel on the left-hand door might show the 3.6 million-year-old footprints that our hominid ancestors left in fresh volcanic ash (these footprints were found in Tanzania in 1976 by paleoanthropologist Andrew Hill). The panel above that might show a Viking walking up the sandy shore of Iceland. His footprints would be visible in the sand and he would be wearing a typical Viking helmet -- one with horns sticking out of each side. The next panel could show a close-up view of the first bootprint made on Luna by Neil Armstrong. And the top panel could show Sojourner, snuggled up to and taking the measure of a Martian rock The marks from Sojourner's wheels would be visible on the regolith. I do not yet have any ideas for the panels on the right-hand door but I have a neat idea for the ceiling. More to follow...

Scott

(Maybe the path leading to Destiny Hall should include a short alternate route made of sand. Newlyweds could take off their shoes and ritualistically leave their footprints in that sand on their way to Destiny Hall.)

Scott G. Beach · 2002-09-14 15:31:01

I have been thinking about what might be on the four panels on the right-hand door of Destiny Hall and I have come up with nothing, nothing, nothing, and something. The top three panels, which represent the 5th, 6th, and 7th panels in a series of 8, should be left blank. These blank panels represent those portions of the story of Mars exploration and settlement that have not yet been written. These blank panels represent our current challenges. The 8th panel would have an image of The Great Circle of Mars. The Great Circle is a round stone, 2 meters in diameter and about 1 foot thick. The top of the stone is polished to a mirror finish and the side of the stone is rough hewn. The Great Circle would be located on Mars and would be the place where the ashes of the Ancestors are presented to the Martian Wind for final disposition.

Webster's Third New International Dictionary defines a great circle as "a circle formed on the surface of a sphere by the intersection of a plane that passes through the center of the sphere." The Great Circle of Mars is 2 meters in diameter because it represents a great circle of The Great Globe of Mars, which is also 2 meters in diameter. The Great Globe is located in Destiny Hall. The Great Globe contains the ashes of the Ancestors (i.e., the would-be Martians who have contributed to efforts to explore and settle Mars).

The Genesis of An Idea:

Once upon a time, I visited the National Geographic Society's offices in Washington, D.C. The National Geographic Society's ground-floor lobby contained the largest globe of the Earth that I had ever seen. I was impressed.

I regard the Mars Society as the Martian equivalent of the National Geographic Society. I thought that it would be appropriate for the Mars Society to have an impressively large globe of Mars. I knew that the Pantheon (a Roman temple) had been designed to contain a perfect sphere and I thought that it would be appropriate to put an impressively large globe of Mars inside a building based on the design of the Pantheon. That is how Destiny Hall got its general shape.

Scott

Nirgal82 · 2002-09-15 11:58:34

Well I'm not so sure the Vikings actually used helmets like everyone thinks they did.
Anywho, Scott, I really would not like anyone, and I mean ANYONE telling me to participate in ANY ritual.
I am especially against predetermining a child's fate. We don't have to fear about there being a long term commitment on Mars, or before we go.
After all, why should we be afraid that our children and their children's children, and hence all of humanity's future generations, will drop the ball? If humanity is going to continue to thrive and grow, leaving Earth for other places to set up homesteads, expand culture, and the like is inevitable. The only thing we are worried about, being the current generation, is accomplishing this very soon (hopefully while we'll be here to see it, this can be construed as vainity on our parts, and in some sense it is, however, we have the technology, and will rapidly learn the expertise, so we see no practical reason to postpone going there)
As for designing societies, thats always been a pipe dream. Please site me examples of societies that have been purposefully design, culture wise, down to the level of individual and couples in matrimony.
I'm sure you wont find any, any that were particularly long-lived, and still around in a state of rapid advancement with higher living standards (by which I mean that they have at least as much freedom as one would expect while still being confined under rational laws)
I imagine it this way:

I am a child around 7 M-years of age, in the M-year 20. The old ones, who were here since the beginning, brought with them rituals and customs that were prefabricated, and that I and my other Martian born brethren are taught to practice under close scrutiny.
Presuming I have access to the internet, and any other source that could be freely accessed to learn history. (unless history has been concealed to the young Martians in order to preserve the customs, in which case I'm sure that this particular Martian civilization will fail)
I have learned from the history of Earth, the planet humans originally came from, that ever since the advent of agriculture, people have been doing all sorts of interesting things, like the rituals I participate in, only one difference. Not in any one of those respectable thriving societies, were their rituals born overnight by one person or group. And to make matters worse those that were designed specifically have either self-destructed, or brought upon them such contempt and scorn from the rest of the world (not to mention their own citizens) that they were rapidly destroyed, although some did give a strong struggle. (that was not primarily because the people wanted that cause, it was because Nazi Germany had the most technologically advanced and powerful military at the time)
I, after reading these accounts, begin to see many parallels materialize between these fanatical pre-fab nations and my own.
I after getting sick enough of it, begin to question others around me, of my particular generation or those near mine (the old original settlers would surely put a stop to me) and I quickly realize that I am not alone in this.
As the old ones pass away and because of the general distaste of all the subsequent generations, the rituals eventually dissolve, and all the time taken to practice them was, after all, a massive waste of time.

This is all hypothetical, but why try to design societies down to the level at which you describe,
I would personally react defensively to reducing me and my wife, the person I love, to a mere means of reproduction.
I would fight it with all my ability to do so.
I will have no one, and I mean NO ONE, tell me how to concieve children, and I would react to the mere suggestion that we participate in some pre-fab ritual with much anger and contempt.
I'm sure I'm not alone on this,
So, Scott, please, don't try to devise religions or rituals, keep up the work with a basic guidline document like an effective constitution.
It is a given that an invented culture/religion will rapidly die.

By the way, you said you were only reflecting the discussions that have occured in the Civ-Culture taskforce of the MS.
This is simply wrong, please, by all means (assuming the list is still potentially active) post your first post in this topic word for word on the Civ-Culture list, and I'm sure you'll find opposition far worse than you have found here...

Your friendly neighborhood, FREE Martian...
-Matt

Nirgal82 · 2002-09-15 12:07:58

Oh and by the way, I would also react to the suggestion of having my and my wife's child born under similar ritualistic conditions.
My children shall be free to choose, I would reveal the ridiculousness of your rituals to them, after allowing them enough time to consider it themselves. (assuming we are living in some form of coexistance with such a ritualistic group, which I probably wouldn't, I would live far away from such things)
-Matt

Nirgal82 · 2002-09-15 12:23:59

Oh and I'm pretty shure shipping an outstandingly heavy "Great-Globe" of Mars, made out of reinforced concrete and filled with the ashes of who knows how many people, and being entirely useless beyond ritual, would never leave the Earth.
Not in the mission profile weight limits I'm afraid.

As well, how could you expect to get any respect from outside groups.
If the MS builds a analog settlement and instills within it these sorts of rituals, the rest of the world will no doubt write off the MS as some sort of strange cult of planet worshippers and give them absolutely nothing in the means of support.
Oh and I'm sure the MS would never do such a thing, they are about going to Mars, not about designing the culture that will eventually exist there. (the Civ-Culture list only discusses potentialities of such a culture, and maybe a little brainstorming on initial govt workings) I'm sure the MS certainly knows that restricting the religious interests of its members tranlates into failure and disaster for the MS (and slapping together a religion that incorporates all, or nearly all currently practiced religions is definately NO substitute)

Your friendly neighborhood, religiously free, and resistant to suggestion and wills against my own, Martian...
-Matt

Nirgal82 · 2002-09-15 12:26:01

Sorry for wasting space here, but my member ranking went up with my last post, heh heh
-Matt

Scott G. Beach · 2002-09-15 18:07:50

Matt:

Edward Sapir was an anthropologist and linguist. In an article titled "Culture, Genuine and Spurious," Sapir distinguished between genuine cultures and spurious cultures. He defined a genuine culture as "a culture in which nothing is spiritually meaningless, in which no important part of the general functioning brings with it a sense of frustration, of misdirected or unsympathetic effort."

It is my goal to design a prototype Martian settlement that has a rich spiritual environment; an environment that gives children the sense that they are following in the footsteps of their forebearers and that they will have the opportunity to make their own marks on the history of humankind. This goal is embedded in my suggestion that the path to Destiny Hall include a short alternate route made of sand. This goal is also embedded in the three blank panels on the right-hand door of Destiny Hall.

On their way to Destiny Hall, newlyweds could use the alternate path made of sand. They could take off their shoes and make two sets of footprints in the sand, similar to the two sets of footprints that their ancient ancestors left in fresh volcanic ash in Tanzania 3.6 million years ago. They could thereby continue the tradition of their forebearers.

The three blank panels on the right-hand door of Destiny Hall are meant to inspire children. The children of Destiny Hall would be told that those panels have been reserved to record their achievements. Some of those children will see those blank panels as an opportunity to make history and they will be inspired to achieve great things. And some children will look at those blank panels and just yawn, and grow up, and graduate, and marry, and move to Cleveland and become podiatrists. That's life.

I believe that if thirty families from different nations were brought together and asked to design a prototype Martian settlement, they would design a settlement that includes (1) family residences, (2) a community hall, (3) barns, (4) warehouses, (5) greenhouses, and (6) something like Destiny Hall. They would include something like Destiny Hall because they would not want to live in a society that is merely functional. They would design a complete culture, genuine culture, a culture that provides for their biological and spiritual needs.

Scott

Nirgal82 · 2002-09-15 22:20:27

Scott, I understand this, however...
You assuming that something like a destiny hall will be developed. This is not necessarily a bad thing.
I'm sure that if this multicultural group is asked to put together a funtioning Martian society, they would not simply combine all their religions into something new, by doing so they lose their own religion. I think it far more likely that they will demand one or more buildings be used, at least part of the time, as a place of worship.
Try telling a christian to incorporate buddhist or Islamic elements in their way of worship, and I'm sure you won't get a pleasant response. The same way goes for all the principle religions.

Your friendly neighborhood Martian...
-Matt

RobS · 2002-09-16 00:15:46

I could easily see a Martian settlement, as it gets larger, building some sort of aesthetic meeting place, where interfaith services could be held, where different religious groups (they'd all be small at first) could hold their services, and where concerts and other cultural events could be held. Most likely, these would be held in the cafeteria at first, but once one can build out of brick or steel, the urge to produce a cultural and religious gathering place will manifest itself. There are two different approaches to take: (1) an enclosed approach that reduces radiation exposure, thermal loss, etc., and gives one lots of walls and a ceiling to decorate; (2) an "open" approach with as many windows as possible so that one can see Mars from inside and obtain lots of natural light (and Martian natural light will be pinker or more golden than on Earth, so it will have an aesthetic value itself). If the settlement were expanding every few years, they'd probably wait and build something large when resources are larger and construction experience greater. If the settlement were small and staying small, maybe they'd turn to an aesthetic construction sooner.

There are also specifically Martian things one could do to decorate a structure: (1) use ventifacts, strangely-shaped rocks as a result of wind erosion, as natural art; (2) make mosaics from a wide range of local materials (black basalt, whitish evaporites, sandstones in a range of colors from gray to red, orange, and yellow, dark carbonaceous rocks if they exist, fossiliferous rocks, etc.). The low gravity will also allow higher, wider interior spaces. I suspect local ingenuity could produce a unique structure highly suited for Mars or even for a particular location on Mars.

-- RobS

Scott G. Beach · 2002-09-16 10:16:20

I'm sure that if this multicultural group is asked to put together a funtioning Martian society, they would not simply combine all their religions into something new, by doing so they lose their own religion. I think it far more likely that they will demand one or more buildings be used, at least part of the time, as a place of worship.

Matt:

About 40 years ago, people started planning a "new town." They designed and built a city named Columbia, which is located in the state of Maryland, U.S.A. Columbia has a number of "interfaith centers." One of those centers is named "The Meeting House." The Meeting House is shared by 6 religious congregations: Columbia Baptist Fellowship; Columbia Jewish Congregation; Columbia United Christian Church; Lutheran Church of the Living World; St. John the Evangelist Roman Catholic Church; and Temple Isaiah. The Meeting House shows us that, with proper scheduling, a number of religious congregations can share the same facility. I therefore believe that a prototype Martian settlement could have a "Community Hall" that, with proper scheduling, could be used by several religious congregations. And, after people got to know each other better, they might, as Rob has suggested, elect to hold "interfaith services" every now and then.

Scott

Nirgal82 · 2002-09-16 12:25:28

Ok Scott,

That is indeed a good example, however, as you noted, these interfaith services developed naturally, over time.
They weren't designed initially with that purpose.
I am merely saying what you have said for me in your latest post. To let such things as your destiny hall and the customs that are associated with them develop naturally, without a predetermined plan.
Culture is far more meaningful and beautiful IMHO when it develops naturally. Sort of like evolution. (but I will draw no direct correlations with it however)

Your friendly neighborhood Martian...
-Matt

Scott G. Beach · 2002-09-16 13:10:57

The Ceiling of Destiny Hall

The roof of Destiny Hall will be dome-shaped and made of steel-reinforced concrete. It will be cast in one piece and then lifted into place by a crane. Near the top of the circular wall on which the dome sits, there will be a soffit about 8 inches wide and 6 inches deep. The channel created by the soffit will hold two sets of strip lights. Each strip light will be about 20 inches long and will accommodate one, 18-inch-long fluorescent bulb. The first, third, fifth, etc. (odd) strip lights will be controlled by one electrical switch and the second, fourth, sixth, etc. (even) strip lights will be controlled by a second electrical switch. These two switches will be located inside of Destiny Hall, just to the right of the doorway. The odd fixtures will have regular, 40 watt light bulbs. The even fixtures will have bulbs that produce ultraviolet light (these kinds of bulbs are usually referred to as "blacklights").

The interior surface of the dome will first be painted black. Then, hundreds of small dots of fluorescent white paint will be applied to the ceiling. These dots will appear to glow when only the blacklights are turned on. The dots will represent stars in the sky above the north pole of Mars. These dots will show the star pattern that existed above the north pole of Mars during the first second of the first day of the Martian calendar. That calendar was proposed by Robert Zubrin.

Dr. Robert Zubrin wrote an article titled "A Calendar for Mars." In that article, he suggested a calendar and time-keeping system for Mars. He proposed that the calendar begin on "1 Gemini I," which means, the first day (written with an Arabic numeral) of the first month (named Gemini) of the first year (written with a Roman numeral). This first Martian day occurred on January 1, 1961 of the terrestrial calendar.

Scott G. Beach · 2002-09-16 18:14:33

Matt:

Ben Finney is an anthropologist. He wrote an article titled "Lunar Base: Learning to Live in Space." In that article, Finney asserted that, "We should start now on a research and development program directed toward developing social systems designed so that people can safely and productively live and work on the Moon." He suggested that these social systems should be designed by "those who will actually live in space." I agree, and I believe that the people who will actually live in the first prototype Martian settlement should direct the design of that settlement. If I had the opportunity, I would show those people my plans for Destiny Hall and I would suggest that they adopt those plans or similar plans for a set of rituals that transcend their own national cultures and that thereby unite them with each other and with would-be Martians worldwide. For humans, this sort of planning and adoption is "natural."

Destiny Hall is designed to be (1) a ritual center for the residents of a prototype Martian settlement and (2) an international mausoleum -- a place where portions of the mortal remains of would-be Martians can be stored until such time as those remains can be transported to Mars. I believe that Destiny Hall could unite the members of a prototype Martian settlement with each other and with would-be Martians worldwide.

Scott

Nirgal82 · 2002-09-16 21:47:02

Okie doke Scott,
I think I know know where you are coming from.
Any society that will be expected to function in space should have some degree of planning to it.
All I'm saying is that this planning should be very basic in respect to practices religion-wise.
Perhaps an item on a day to day schedule will have time allotted for worship, and of course differing religions will have different times.
I don't think that this society planning will go as far down into detail as your description of this Destiny Hall has.
After all, the details have been already worked out by the religions that will be brought forth anyway. Best just to let the new details that will arise when these groups come into close contact arise on their own, after it is learned how these groups can best function together.

This lends weight to the idea of an analog settlement to test this idea. Cram professionals of differing backgrounds and religions into close quarters and have them work closely together on Mars related projects (the same results would no doubt yeild from a similar scenario with different kinds of projects, however our purposes would be best served if we kept things relevant to our cause)
I'm sure that a period of 2 or more years would be long enough to see some real evidence of these cultures either coexisting successfully or even sort of melding together sort of like how you described your Destiny Hall.
I just don't think it is a good idea just to pick and choose elements from different cultures, stitching them together, and inventing some sort of new mysticism behind it complete with rituals.
That sort of thing will develop on its own terms, however I do agree that planning in the way a society should basically function is a good idea. (it makes sense as some practices and rituals, like the conception and birth scenarios of your destiny hall, may offend or put at risk the well being of the whole settelment)

Your friendly neighborhood Martain...
-Matt

ps, I wrote a much better post describing the same thing above, however my AOL booted me and it was lost to wherever such things are lost to...

Phobos · 2002-09-16 21:52:23

If I had the opportunity, I would show those people my plans for Destiny Hall and I would suggest that they adopt those plans or similar plans for a set of rituals that transcend their own national cultures and that thereby unite them with each other and with would-be Martians worldwide. For humans, this sort of planning and adoption is "natural."

People who go to Mars won't need a set of rituals to keep them united. The very nature of the hostile environment itself and its distance from Earth will be more than enough to
bond the community together. Martians will need special survival skills and training, at least early on, but I don't think we need to brainwash them with cultish rituals. They'll automatically develop their own culture as time goes on.

Scott G. Beach · 2002-09-16 23:58:52

Martians will need special survival skills and training, at least early on, but I don't think we need to brainwash them with cultish rituals.

Phobos:

Shaun thought that I was advocating "breeding in public" until I explained that I was not; that I envisioned Destiny Hall as having a set of bronze doors that could be latched from the inside so that newlyweds could consummate their marriage in Destiny Hall in private and if they wanted to.

I think that you have also misunderstood my proposal. I would NOT propose that the Community Council of Clarkeville (or whatever the first prototype Martian settlement is called) adopt bylaws which require that residents perform specified rituals. I am not proposing brainwashing: "a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas". I would propose that the Council authorize the construction of Destiny Hall and then invite residents to use the Hall. The residents might use it in a way that I have not suggested. For example, parents might take a child to Destiny Hall on his first birthday to have his photograph taken on the Altar of Mars. This new photo could be posted on the Mars Society website next to the original photograph, which was taken shortly after his birth. On the way to Destiny Hall, the parents might use the sandy alternate route to the hall. They could each hold one of the child's hands and help him to make a set of footprints in the sand. Grandma would undoubtedly be there go get a picture of that too.

And, if the Community Council wanted to raise money to help pay for the construction of Destiny Hall, they might offer, for a fee, to allow would-be Martians to place a bit of their "mortal remains" into the Great Globe of Mars prior to their actual deaths. A person could have his or her head shaved bald and then send the hair to Clarkeville for ritual incineration. The ashes would then be placed into the Great Globe. These people might also have their "before" and "after" photographs taken and uploaded to the Mars Society website. (Are you brave enough for that? ;-)

In summary, after Destiny Hall is built, people will find innovative ways to use it. A culture will grow up around it "naturally."

Scott

Scott G. Beach · 2002-09-18 12:58:05

In a previous message, I described the Altar of Mars as a table that has four legs and that would be located in the single alcove of Destiny Hall. In this message, I will describe the Altar in greater detail.

The Bluestones of Stonehenge

The ancient British monument called Stonehenge was built in several phases. The first phase of construction began in about 1900 B.C. The second phase started in approximately 1750 B.C. (See Stonehenge Decoded, by Gerald Hawkins.) During the second phase, bluestone megaliths, some weighing as much as 5 tons, were moved from their origin in the Prescelly Mountains to the site of Stonehenge. The bluestones were moved approximately 245 miles. The movement of these megaliths required the combined efforts of dozens or perhaps hundreds of people.

The builders of Stonehenge could have used stone that was locally available but instead they chose to use bluestone from a distant source. Why? Some researchers have suggested that the builders regarded the bluestones as sacred because bluestone has the unusual characteristic of feeling warm when touched. The bluestone megaliths might therefore have been regarded as being alive and having souls.

The Altar of Mars

The top of The Altar of Mars will be cut from a bluestone megalith from the Prescelly Mountains. The top will be 15 centimeters thick, 60 centimeters wide, and 135 centimeters long. It will therefore have the same proportions as the stone sign at the entrance to CLARKEVILLE (see that topic in the Civilization and Culture section of the New Mars Forums). The long axis of the Altar will be aligned so that it intersects with the vertical centerline of The Great Globe of Mars.

There will be two electric spotlights in the ceiling of the alcove where the Altar is located. Those lights can be turned on prior to any time that the Altar is scheduled to be used. This will allow the bluestone to be gently heated and to feel warm to the touch.

Scott

Scott G. Beach · 2002-09-20 22:54:21

Conjunction Day and the Socialization of Children

In a previous message, I suggested that Destiny Hall should have a soffit at the top of the interior side of its circular wall. The soffit would be just below the dome-shaped ceiling and a set of lighting fixtures in the soffit would light the interior of the dome. The bottom of the soffit would be about 10 inches wide and it could accommodate a device that displays the relative positions of Earth and Mars in their orbits around Sol (the sun).

The bottom of the soffit could have two rows of steel nails that have broad heads. One row of nails would consist of 365 evenly spaced nails. The other row would consist of 687 evenly spaced nails. A small globe of the Earth, about the size of a tennis ball, would have a piece of steel wire extending from its northern pole and a magnet would be attached to the other end of the wire. The magnet of the Earth globe could be placed onto any nail in the row that consists of 365 nails. A globe of Mars, about the size of a golf ball, would also have a wire and magnet. The Mars globe could be placed onto any nail in the row that consists of 687 nails.

On "Opposition Day," both globes would be placed onto their respective rows at a point where a nail in the Earth row is exactly opposite a nail in the Mars row. This point could be over the center of the doorway of Destiny Hall. On each subsequent day, each globe would be advanced along its row to the next nail.

On a cloudless night, the opposition of Earth and Mars can be observed directly. However, the conjunction of Earth and Mars cannot be observed from Earth. The device in Destiny Hall that shows the relative positions of Earth and Mars might therefore be referred to as the "Conjunction Day Calculator." Several children who live in Clarkeville could be taught to operate this calculator. They would regularly calculate and report their estimate of the number of days until the next Earth/Mars conjunction. The Clarkeville Community Council could make this report a regular agenda item. Based on the report, the Council could officially fix the date of the next Clarkeville Conjunction Day Celebration (perhaps the nearest convenient Tuesday; the word Tuesday is derived from Tui, which is the ancient Norse name for Mars). All members of the Mars Society would be invited to attend this celebration.

On Opposition Day, the globes of Earth and Mars would be returned to their aligned positions over the center of the doorway. The timing of this resetting would be determined by a new team of children, who would be assuming the responsibility of operating the Conjunction Day Calculator until the subsequent Opposition Day. This team would be appointed by order of the Community Council and the team's duties would be prescribed in the community's Bylaws.

The experience of determining the opposition and conjunction days, and of presenting reports to the Council, would provide children with lessons in astronomy, public speaking, teamwork, and dedication to duty.

Scott

Byron · 2002-09-21 09:24:21

Mr. Beach,

I hate to burst your bubble, but I really, really think you're barking up the wrong tree with this Destiny Hall stuff you've been going on and on about. First of all, the idea of a proposed prototype community put forth during the Mars Society Steering Committee meeting was just that...an idea, an idea among many. The primary goal of the Mars Society is to increase awareness of Mars, promote and carry out scientific research related to Mars, and promoting a general goal of getting humans to Mars someday. While there is general disagreement about how humanity should go about setting up "house" on the Red Planet, I think the majority of us Mars enthusiasts agree that it will take a collabrative, long-term scientific effort, most likely requiring the resources of entire nations, in order to carry out human missions to Mars, and eventual permanent colonization.

This idea of raising a generation of "Mars Destiny" children has a *zero* chance of working. Children, at least in today's globally interconnected age, have a tendency to go about their own way, and besides, don't you think there's moral / ethical issues to be concerned about when we're talking about "indoctrinating" your offspring? This is precisely what you are proposing...and just because you think it's a neat idea to "program" your so-called "Martian values" in your children, I seriously doubt your kids will agree with you. They'll be gone in a flash the day they turn 18, ever-so-thankful they are able to escape a crazy community that worships a little red dot in the sky, involving nonsensical rituals such as moving red and blue balls on magnetic nails in the ceiling.

Instead, what I propose, is just let Mars "sell" itself. Give children a chance to learn about Mars, and become inspired by its inherent beauty. I have a neice that considers Mars to be her "favorite planet, because it's red." No odd-ball copulation proceedure was needed to achieve this: She learned about Mars in school, and has become enchanted by it on her own. Now if she begins hearing about the Mars Society's efforts to carry out missions like TranLife and develop low-cost means of getting people to Mars, she might get even more excited about Mars, it being a physical place that humans will soon have the ability to go visit and actually bring back red Mars rocks that she can go see and touch at the Smithsonian in Washington, D.C. someday. Imagine that.

You obviously have a strong desire to see humans on Mars; and indeed, that is what the Mars Society is for. But please take a moment to think about the most practical way of getting people on Mars is. You honestly think that your Earth-based Destiny Hall is the best way to move closer to the goal of getting humans on the Red Planet? Please do yourself a big favor and give it some serious thought...

One other thing...it's quite obvious that you have a very good imagination and strong vision, just based on your postings about Destiny Hall in this thread. Why not put it to good use, and write a novel based on your ideas of Destiny Hall? It'd make an entertaining story, and you'd be making cash while promoting your idea. Just an idea, anyhow...

'enuff said...

B

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