Leaglize drugs - say what u want

AltToWar · 2002-12-22 22:18:59

The fact is, the majority of Americans don't smoke pot, and never will.

you would be suprised. you really would.

CalTech2010 · 2002-12-23 00:14:23

No offense intended, but what is pitiful is the hard-nosed attitude that so many people have towards people less priveliged than themselves. THAT is what is pitiful. In fact, it makes one ashamed to be human, at times.

If you need pot to escape poverty, I feel sorry for you...

And I do know what I'm talking about, and I am not surprised at the size of the American populace that uses pot. It's very small. I'm talking regular users. My state (Colorado) has the highest percentage of pot users in the union, and I have to live with these people everyday. I, too, can name quite a few people I know who smoke pot. They're pitiful losers who will never do anything with their lives but hold grunt-jobs and stick around our small rural town.

AltToWar · 2002-12-23 01:11:44

No offense intended, but what is pitiful is the hard-nosed attitude that so many people have towards people less priveliged than themselves. THAT is what is pitiful. In fact, it makes one ashamed to be human, at times.
If you need pot to escape poverty, I feel sorry for you...
And I do know what I'm talking about, and I am not surprised at the size of the American populace that uses pot. It's very small. I'm talking regular users. My state (Colorado) has the highest percentage of pot users in the union, and I have to live with these people everyday. I, too, can name quite a few people I know who smoke pot. They're pitiful losers who will never do anything with their lives but hold grunt-jobs and stick around our small rural town.

I know a successfult businesswoman, owned her own business for 20 years in NYC. Heavy User.

I know an assistant DA. Heavy user.

I know a PHD in Economics, Millionaire. Heavy user.

I know a Police officer. Heavy user.

I know a VP in a midsized NYC Corp. heavy user.

Are you sure you have your prejudices about pot users correctly aligned?

Josh Cryer · 2002-12-23 01:33:23

I'm in the group who thinks hemp/cannabis/marijuana was primarily banned due to the whole, you know, unsurpassed value of it.

Rather than be a big hippy (as I'm sure most of you here think of me as), I would refer you to Google- search for hemp, and be amazed.

CalTech2010 · 2002-12-23 12:29:09

Yeah Alt, your pot-head friends might make up a small selective percentage of pot users. You forget to mention how screwed up the other 99% are.

Most of my friends toke up right before they go snowboarding, just to "make it more fun". I can imagine them right now getting high and running into a tree. I'll bet they work at Denny's the rest of their lives.

soph · 2002-12-23 12:38:36

i have friends that smoke and play 5 sports with no problem. like anything else, it depends on the person. how can you allow tobacco to be legal when its much more dangerous to society?

Josh Cryer · 2002-12-23 12:47:18

If you'd do any sort of research at all you might surprise yourself to find that marijuana is less dangerous than alcohol. Anyone who is ?screwed up? because of pot, probably has more problems in their lives than just access to pot. In much the same way anyone who is screwed up because of alcohol proabably has more problems in their lives than just access to alcohol. Except it's easier to become addicted to alcohol. And you can OD on alcohol. Unlike marijuana.

All the evidence points to marijuana being banned, because hemp could replace the whole textile, fuel, food, wood industry overnight. One crop season would be all it takes. It's not good business practice to let something come in and destroy your monopoly- so you lobby congress to ?ban? or ?tax? things which threaten your business (I call this ?demand restrictions?- a common business practice wherein you enforce demand in your product by restricting others from having choices, and so on). And if you don't think lobbiests, or special interests, don't have power in Washington, you're in very much denial.

I'm not a pot smoker. I personally don't really find it much of a interesting thing to do. However, I am a technology buff, and I love history. And when I read that a certain plant that was used for thousands of years in various things, from food to clothing, simply disappears from the face of the earth overnight, I have to question the reasons. Hemp slash marijuana shouldn't be banned because it's quite beneficial to society. Not because I want to take a toke.

CalTech2010 · 2002-12-23 12:50:28

Because tobacco's been a part of American life since the 17th century...400 YEARS! Tobacco isn't a hazard to society. It doesn't cause a hallucinagenic high, and that makes it the REAL victimless crime. Even now, most kids don't smoke. I know about 3 who do, out of 250. Compare that to 225 out of 250 back in the 1940's.

Let's look at the problems associated with legalizing a previously illegal substance.

Alcohol. The Mexican children COULD buy it, buy when they're thirsty, they get a Coke. WHY? Because they've grown up with it, see it isn't so good, and wait until they acquire the taste. If you were to eliminate the drinking age right now, every kid in America would go out and get a 6-pack. Every kid would go: "Hey! This stuff is cool! If they've had a drinking age on it for this long, it must be some really good stuff!" It'd take quite a few generations to get to a European level of drinking responsibility.

Marijuana. Every Dutch kid grows up knowing that they could buy pot, but they realize they don't have to get high to escape their problems most of the time. So when they do use it once in a while, it's not so bad. American kids would go out and buy 5 kilo bricks and get stoned out of their minds. A sudden rarity becomes common, and everyone jumps on the bandwagon. It would take even longer for all citizens to get used to the availability of pot.

soph · 2002-12-23 12:53:48

except this isnt the case. just look at canada, when they legalized pot, pot use went down.

tobacco is a victimless crime?!!! are you nuts? i dont know about you, but i dont want to get lung cancer from secondhand smoke, which i couldnt get from a pot smoker. i dont want my lungs turned black because of secondhand smoke. i dont want my children to have problems because my wife was exposed to secondhand smoke.

this all doesnt happen with pot. and a high lasts a good, thirty minutes to an hour. if youre drunk, youre drunk for hours, and then you wake up smashed.

and i dont remember people having hallucinations while they were high on pot, but hey, go ahead and rewrite the facts.

Josh Cryer · 2002-12-23 12:58:24

soph, it takes a lot of second hand smoke to cause cancer, but the main thing that is caused by second hand smoke, espeically in children, is asthma. Interestingly, something marijuana can help stop is an asthma attack. It was used for thousands of years for that very thing.

Second hand marijuana smoke causes you to get high, which is actually a downside. I wouldn't want to get people high unintentionally. So I could understand banning it in public places (much like we've done to cigarettes).

soph · 2002-12-23 13:00:24

ive been exposed to second hand marijuana smoke, and i havent gotten high- but ive seen it happen. it takes a shitload of smoke in close proximity to do that.

CalTech2010 · 2002-12-23 13:00:41

Okay. You guys win. I'll just put on my FREE TIBET shirt, sit down in my "shroom" poster-covered room, and toke up. I'll waste $100 of my money getting high, and then I'll still have to leave that room and face my problems, $100 poorer.

I'll have my VCR stolen when some poorER guy breaks into my house to feed his addiction to the next level of drugs, and I'll be forced to live in a 2 room shanty house for the rest of my life.

I LOVE MARIJUANA!

soph · 2002-12-23 13:02:29

youve got issues accepting being wrong.

CalTech2010 · 2002-12-23 13:07:36

I apologize if sarcasm doesn't come through very well in print.

My dad would have tanned my hide if he'd seen what I had just written and didn't know I was joking.

Josh Cryer · 2002-12-23 13:14:07

If you don't drink alcohol, I see no reason why you would even consider smoking marijuana. Both are mind altering. Except one is safer than the other.

Heh, when Marijuana was banned, they blamed it on violent behavior. Then, when the Communist threat occured, the government claimed it made people pacifist! And that marijuana was a drug the communists wanted to use to make you peaceful zombies and so on. It's really funny how far the government would go with their ridiculous arguments.

CalTech2010 · 2002-12-23 13:18:38

Okay. So why do you want marijuana legalized?

My main fear is that out of shock and excitement, every teenager in America would go out and get a few joints, and get high. I am worried that unless we have a centralized industry we can trust to produce pot, the dealers will get kids to try to move onto heavier stuff.

Prove me wrong, you sacred stranger Josh.

Josh Cryer · 2002-12-23 13:43:55

I want it legalized so I can make lots of money growing it for fuel, textiles, papers, plastics, and so on.

I don't think there is much evidence to suggest that everyone will go out and become regular users. It may be true that more people would smoke pot to see what it's like (since it would then become widly available), but I doubt very seriously a lot of people will take it up as a regular habit.

One thing people seem to not realize, is that when people OD on drugs, it's mainly due to the fact that those drugs are illegal, and unregulated. So someone can buy really cheap heroine for months (heroine that requires that you use a lot of it to get high), and one day find someone with rather high powered heroine. They don't know not to take the same ammount they'd been taking before, so they take a large dose that kills them.

So I agree with you, some regulation is ultimately necessary, but for really powerful drugs like heroine. Marijuana on the other hand, is no more dangerous than alcohol, and ought to be regulated as such (no access for children, and so on).

CalTech2010 · 2002-12-23 13:52:20

So you want to legalize HEROINE now?! Those are the addicts that scare me. I have to admit that most of my marijuana-enthusiast friends are pretty mellow when they do it, but heroine is a horse of a different color.

Those are people that will do desperate things to feed their addiction, and as a non-user I don't want to be in their path if it becomes legal. They'll find some way to pay for it, legal or illegal, most likely illegal.

If we legalize hemp, I think it should me nationalized for the first 20 years, and then slowly stepped down to privatized after that.

soph · 2002-12-23 13:57:24

no, he was explainig why heroin od's occur.

Josh Cryer · 2002-12-23 13:57:56

Hey, this isn't a hemp only topic.

I personally don't know much about heroine. But there are places in AU where you can go and get heroine for a small fee (much lower than black market heroine). They take care of you as you have your high, you sober up, and go home. I think that makes sense; especially for people who are already addicted.

The point is, though, that if it's legalized, there can be a good, safe, market for it, and so you won't have people killing each other over drug money and so on.

I thought you didn't care what people did to their bodies?

And I don't see why we'd need to nationalize hemp. Farmers ought to be able to grow it unregulated, like they do most things. If we legalize hemp, we're legalizing marijuana.

AltToWar · 2002-12-23 14:19:19

The constitution is written on Hemp.

Hemp saved George Bush Sr. Slife in WWII. His parachute straps were made of it.

George Washington is quoted saying "Make the most of the Hemp Seed. Plant it everywhere"

This nation has heratige in Hemp, as well as tobacco.

CalTech2010 · 2002-12-23 14:19:43

I thought you didn't care what people did to their bodies?

I don't care what people do with their bodies, when they're locked in a room and can't get out. I draw the line when they steal my stereo and VCR to buy heroine.

Soph wrote:

no, he was explainig why heroin od's occur.

Josh wrote:

So I agree with you, some regulation is ultimately necessary, but for really powerful drugs like heroine.

Josh wrote:

And I don't see why we'd need to nationalize hemp. Farmers ought to be able to grow it unregulated, like they do most things. If we legalize hemp, we're legalizing marijuana.

Because then anybody who wanted to get marijuana wouldn't grow hemp, they'd become a farmer to grow pot. I'll bet 5% of this COUNTRY would quit their jobs and become "hemp" farmers.

The point is, though, that if it's legalized, there can be a good, safe, market for it, and so you won't have people killing each other over drug money and so on.

It still doesn't matter if the market's safe; drugs cost money, and if they don't have that money they'll find some way to get it (ie stealing my stereo and VCR).

NATIONALIZE hemp for the first 20 years to insure that it is used only for material purposes, and that hemp and hemp alone is being grown. PRIVATIZE it after that in the hands of responsible and well-informed industry.

AltToWar · 2002-12-23 14:22:59

Herion addiction should be treated by doctors, not lawyers.

Heroin should be issued out to addicts in clinics in exchange for voluntary treatment.

soph · 2002-12-23 14:23:21

you gotta get a grip. youve got a real fixation on this stealing your vcr thing. more violent crime is caused by guns than pot, and thats with pot being a black market substance, which would magnify its attachment to crime.

AltToWar · 2002-12-23 14:27:46

It still doesn't matter if the market's safe; drugs cost money, and if they don't have that money they'll find some way to get it (ie stealing my stereo and VCR).

Make it free. Treat people that are ill from addiction as if they are ill.

You remove the black market element.
You free up space in jails and prisons.
You remove the danger from the community.

There will always be heroin addicts.
No amount of money put into the drug war will stop that.

You can either feed a black maket and encourage violence by making it illegal, or you can get these people back on the roead to health and take money out of the blcak market, making eveyone safer.

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