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#26 Yesterday 08:03:32
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,840
Re: New Food Sources. Precision Fermentation, Cellular, Synthetic
(th) has posted a inquiry about my previous post. Here it is: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 97#p241297
To start with a shortcut, I will offer the contrast, Oxygen/Free Oxygen, and Aerobic/Anerobic.
So, I guess what I way trending towards was Aerobic Electroliers and Anerobic Electrolizers.
I suppose I would speculate that it could be said that splitting Oxygen and Hydrogen from water might be Aerobic.
It appears that there are ways to use an Electrolier to produce both Acetate and Oxygen.
I already had seen what I interpreted as a method to produce Hydrogen from Organic Waste using an electrolier. In that case expensive membranes are not required as Oxygen does not need to be separated from the Hydrogen. So, I speculated that Acetate which seems to be a fuel, might be produced in a similar manner. I was reaching.
But it seems it can be done.
Query: "Producing Acetate using an Electrolier and Organic waste?"
Quote:
Copilot Search Branding
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Producing Acetate from Organic Waste Using Electrolysis
You can produce acetate from organic waste by combining electrochemical CO₂ reduction (CO₂RR) with bioconversion of waste organics. This approach leverages renewable electricity and low-cost feedstocks to create a sustainable acetate supply.1. Electrochemical CO₂-to-Acetate
Recent research shows that CO₂ electrolysis can directly produce acetate at the cathode when using appropriate catalysts
cdn.prod.website-files.com
cdn.prod.website-files.com
. The process:Uses renewable electricity to drive CO₂ reduction.
Targets acetate as a multi-carbon product, avoiding the high energy barrier of C–C coupling.
Requires catalyst design to improve selectivity and efficiency.
Key points:
Direct route: CO₂RR at the cathode with catalysts like Cu-based systems.
Indirect route: First reduce CO₂ to CO (CO reduction reaction, CORR), then convert CO to acetate.
Challenges: Low selectivity, high overpotential, and competing hydrogen evolution.
2. Bioconversion of Organic Waste to Acetate
Organic waste (e.g., cafeteria waste, corn stover) can be converted to acetate via thermophilic anaerobic consortia
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
:Microorganisms ferment waste organics into volatile fatty acids, with acetate as a major product.
This step uses the organic carbon in waste, reducing landfill use and producing a low-cost feedstock.
Acetate can then be used in downstream processes (e.g., fermentation, chemical synthesis).
Influential factors for bioconversion include:
pH, temperature, and retention time.
Microbial consortium composition and nutrient balance
Springer
Springer
.3. Integrating Electrolysis and Bioconversion
A hybrid system could:Pre-treat organic waste to extract fermentable sugars or organic acids.
Ferment to produce acetate (or other intermediates) for sale or further use.
Use the remaining waste stream (e.g., lignin, inorganics) as a CO₂ source for electrolysis.
Electrolyze CO₂ to produce additional acetate, supplementing or replacing bioconversion output.
Advantages:
Dual acetate production from waste and CO₂.
Reduces reliance on fossil-derived acetic acid.
Aligns with circular economy and green manufacturing goals.
4. Practical Considerations
Catalyst selection: For CO₂RR, Cu-based catalysts with nanostructuring or alloying can improve acetate selectivity
cdn.prod.website-files.com
cdn.prod.website-files.com
.Waste pre-treatment: Mechanical, thermal, or enzymatic methods to make organics fermentable.
Process integration: Design a continuous or semi-continuous system to handle variable waste inputs.
Scale-up: Start with lab-scale bioconversion and pilot-scale electrolysis to optimize coupling.
Example: Cafeteria waste → thermophilic fermentation → acetate; waste CO₂ from fermentation → electrolysis → more acetate
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
.In summary, combining electrochemical CO₂ reduction with bioconversion of organic waste offers a sustainable, low-cost route to acetate production, with potential for industrial-scale implementation.
I think I read that Acetate is related to Vinegar, sort of.
Query: "Can acetate result from anaerobic decay?"
Quote:
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Can Acetate Result from Anaerobic Decay?
Yes — acetate can be a product of anaerobic decay when certain microorganisms break down organic matter in the absence of oxygen.In anaerobic environments, complex organic materials are degraded through a series of microbial processes. One key stage is acetogenesis, where specific bacteria or archaea convert substrates like carbon dioxide (CO₂) and hydrogen (H₂) — or other organic compounds — into acetyl-CoA, which is then released as acetate
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
+1
. This process is part of the anaerobic food web that ultimately produces methane and CO₂.How it happens:
Acetogens (bacteria or archaea) use the Wood–Ljungdahl pathway (reductive acetyl-CoA pathway) to fix CO₂ and H₂ into acetyl-CoA, which is then converted to acetate
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
.In some cases, acetate is also produced during fermentation of sugars, alcohols, lactates, or fatty acids by anaerobic microbes
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
.In natural systems like wetlands, sediments, and digestive tracts, acetate is a central intermediate in the anaerobic degradation of organic matter, following hydrolysis, acidogenesis, and acetogenesis before methanogenesis
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
+1
.Ecological role:
Acetate serves as an energy source for other microbes, including methanogens, and can be a nutrient for higher organisms in ecosystems like termite guts
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
.In anaerobic digestion of waste, acetate is a key fermentation product before it is further metabolized to methane
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
.In summary: Anaerobic decay can indeed produce acetate, especially through acetogenic metabolism in anaerobic bacteria and archaea, and it plays a central role in the anaerobic carbon cycle.
We read that some plants and algae and yeasts can use Acetate as food. The Earth has free Oxygen so this organisms in the dark can to some extent "Eat" the Acetate and using available free Oxygen, have some potential for growth.
So, I think that with electroliers, it may be easier to produce the fuel Acetate without free Oxygen produced.
On Earth I have suggested using fallen tree leaves, grasses, weeds, and fruit scraps as the Organic waste.
In space I think that an Algae, or vascular plant grown might produce Free Oxygen and Organic Waste. Such robust Algae/Plants, might be grown in very difficult environments, such as humid and low pressure enclosures, with the preferred aspect of excluding excessive hostile radiation.
While such grown organic matter may not be very suitable to be a food, if you could extract Acetate from this organic matter, then you might produce Acetate which may be suitable to grow organisms such as some garden crops, or microbes that are of a food value.
Electrolyzing without producing free Oxygen may be easier for the production of Acetate and perhaps Methane, and Hydrogen, I speculate.
The process of growing the hardy extreme source organisms would produce the Free Oxygen you might want to react Acetate, Methane, and Hydrogen with.
Chemistry is not my strong suit, but I have given it a try and I think I am close.
Of course Robert might want to simply use chloroplasts and have them create a fuel of some sort. If that were sugar, then it might be possible to convert the sugar into Acetate.
Ending Pending 
Last edited by Void (Yesterday 08:27:51)
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