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#26 2022-06-18 05:44:42

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,663

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

pressure tank was replaced but is an unknown condition, iron removal system went belly up and is gone now, electric pump is unknown since its not be powered up in years and its unknown if the unit is dirt sediment bound at the bottom of the well until its run.

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#27 2022-06-18 06:36:02

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 13,992

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut re #26

You are in the position of a paleontologist ... The bones of an ancient piece of technology are there for you to study when you get time.

1) Is the pressure tank needed for this study?  That was part of an earlier system you purchased from a vendor. 

2) The iron removal system was provided by a vendor, and it is what we are seeking to replace with a modern water separation system

3) The condition of the pump can be determined (I would think) by turning it on.  It either works or it doesn't.

In the not-too-distant future, when the grass is mowed, the trees are trimmed and all the other necessary chores of a property in New Hampshire are covered, please schedule some time to turn on the pump and record what happens.

It seems to me that for the purposes of study, all that's needed are a few gallons of water from the well.

The experiments we've discussed include:

1) What happens when water is allowed to stand in a container for a period of time, with gravity the only influence on the atoms inside.
2) What happens when a strong magnet is at the base of the container. The magnetic properties of rust molecules are low but they are not zero

There are (no doubt) many other experiments that could be performed with modest investment of time, energy and money.

The needs of the entire human race are waiting to be addressed.  It makes no sense to leave the responsibility for solving this problem to others.

It hasn't been solved yet, despite thousands of years of lifetimes that have come and gone.

Advanced knowledge acquired by our ancestors can be brought to bear on this problem, but invention is (obviously) still needed, and anyone living today can be the agent of that invention.

(th)

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#28 2022-06-21 10:21:27

tahanson43206
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Posts: 13,992

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

This item showed up in a tech newsletter....

if anyone is interested I can show the original text with active links....

A portable approach to seawater desalination.
   
A portable approach to seawater desalination

Designed to be operated by non-experts, the suitcase-sized, 10 kg prototype has a single button to initiate desalination and purification, plus notification to indicate when salinity and particle count are acceptable for drinking.

More videos…

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#29 2022-06-21 10:32:09

tahanson43206
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Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/att/int … 00453.html


Introducing the Electric 2023 Living Vehicle with Industry-Changing Solar Water Generation Technology
Tue, June 21, 2022, 9:00 AM
The 2023 model is Living Vehicle's most self-sufficient trailer to date. The game-changing integrated water from air system allows owners to stay off-grid longer than ever before.

SANTA BARBARA, Calif., June 21, 2022 /PRNewswire/ -- After much anticipation, Living Vehicle, a luxury electric travel trailer with impressively powerful off-grid capabilities, announces its 2023 model, bringing the company closer than ever to its ultimate goal of achieving a Net-Zero offering. The Living Vehicle 2023 Travel Trailer allows owners to travel far away from campgrounds and overcrowded RV parks. The 2023 Living Vehicle is a traveling solar power plant capable of creating an endless water supply to allow its owners to remain off-grid longer than ever before.


The 2023 Living Vehicle is the first vehicle (trailer or otherwise) to produce its water with the innovative Watergen water system that uses humidity in the air to create potable water. With more solar power than most traditional homes, this technologically independent trailer is the epitome of luxury unplugged™ with a robust LVEngergy power system, offering complete energy independence to power all onboard equipment. The 2023 model makes it possible for anyone, even professionals in the most demanding creative industries, to work anywhere with the Creative Studio, a mobile office jam-packed with state-of-the-art technology from Apple.

Living Vehicle blends autonomous technology and enduring, sustainable power with stunning, functional architecture to push the limits of modern nomadic living. The 2023 model is the most powerful trailer currently on the market and boasts luxe furnishings, gourmet appliances, seemingly endless storage space, and spa-like bathing. Living Vehicle's founders, Matthew and Joanna Hofmann, created Living Vehicle from their own firsthand experiences to challenge the status quo of living, traveling, and working from the road so the modern nomad can live without compromise.

"The 2023 Living Vehicle breaks down barriers for nomadic homeowners. It is our most powerful trailer to date, thanks to our proprietary LVEnergy system. Being able to create our water from air is monumental and allows travelers not to be limited by the size of their water tanks while on the go," said Matthew Hofmann. "Conventional trailer design is fundamentally a short-term solution designed for recreation, which in the end, is why they are called recreational vehicles, or RVs. Nomadic Living Vehicle homeowners enjoy both form and function with the freedom to remain safe, healthy, and connected longer while exploring the best and most remote destinations in North America without ever having to plug into a campsite or fill up their water tanks. Our vision for Living Vehicle is to support the best possible life, literally creating the very resources we as humans need – completely free from the grid."

Premium Drinking Water from Air

Watergen water-air generator is paired with Living Vehicle's oversized water tank, multiple redundant power sources, energy storage packs and off-road capabilities, allowing owners to comfortably extend their freedom on the road and in remote locations, longer than ever before. Access to 24-7 potable water is a central pillar in the ability to remain off-grid. As pioneers for the industry, Living Vehicle partnered with Watergen, leaders in sustainability, innovation, and luxury, offering the ultimate water from air technology, to fully integrate this system into the 2023 Living Vehicle structure. By partnering with Watergen and seamlessly incorporating the technology into its models, Living Vehicle has become one of just 15 companies worldwide to experience Watergen's on-the-go water generator integrated system.

The production of drinking water from humidity in the air via Atmospheric Water Generator (AWG) is undeniably the best water extraction solution available today. The 2023 model units with Watergen give owners the independence and freedom to enjoy top-quality, mineral-rich water from the comfort of their Living Vehicle wherever their off-grid journeys take them, even in the most arid and remote locations. The technology also naturally reduces the vehicle owner's carbon footprint and plastic pollution by eliminating single-use plastic containers and transportation-related supply chain pollution.

Producing enough water for an entire family, the technology saves storage space, allows for ease of preparation for travel, extends the time one can spend off-grid, and eliminates the hassle of finding water sources en route. The INside system requires minor maintenance and provides up to 5 gallons of clean drinkable water per day.

"Watergen is proud to partner with Living Vehicle for the first mobile application to provide water on the go," said Michael Mirilashvili, President of Watergen. "This innovation now available in the 2023 Living Vehicle has been in the works for years and brings us closer to our vision to provide clean, safe, and sustainable drinking water around the clock, from any location."

The Most Powerful Off-Grid Office

Also made possible by Living Vehicle's energy-generating resources powered by the sun is the Living Vehicle Creative Studio, available in the 2023 model. The Living Vehicle Creative Studio is outfitted with state-of-the-art technology from Apple. These products allow modern professionals, who are heavily reliant on powerful hardware, to perform their job from anywhere. Living Vehicle is the only off-grid trailer with the power and devices to run a technology-reliant business harmoniously from the utmost remote locations without compromising on equipment or location.

Each Creative Studio comes fully loaded with a range of configurable hardware. The visual center of the Studio highlights Apple's Pro Display XDR, which features a 32-inch Retina 6K screen, or the Studio Display, an immersive 27-inch 5K Retina display. To power the Studio, options include a 16-inch MacBook Pro with M1 Pro or M1 Max, which delivers game-changing performance and battery life, and features a stunning Liquid Retina XDR display, a wide array of ports, a 1080p camera, industry-leading studio-quality mics, and a high-fidelity, six-speaker sound system.

For the ultimate dream studio experience, the Creative Studio may be configured with the Mac Studio with M1 Max or M1 Ultra, the world's most powerful chip in a personal computer. Like the mobile office, the entire Creative Studio is mounted above an 80" walnut one or two-person desk that can be effortlessly lowered without disturbing the active workspace, revealing a queen-sized Memory-Foam bed.

Now available for order at a base price of $339,995, all orders are custom manufactured with a 10–12-month lead time. The 2023 Living Vehicle is available in 3 models differentiated according to capability and amenities, including: CORE, MAX, and PRO, with the PRO being the flagship Living Vehicle.

For more information or order a 2023 Living Vehicle, please contact Living Vehicle at (805) 618-2462, or visit https://www.livingvehicle.com/ and @livingvehicle. High-resolution images are available here.

About Living Vehicle

Founded in 2017, Living Vehicle blends modern architecture and technology to create the ultimate luxury travel trailer. Quality comes first in these high-end adaptable spaces that allow you to live, travel, work, and seek adventure off-grid in any environment. With a passion for freedom, wellness, and sustainability, the company works every day toward a vision of a completely self-sufficient, net-zero mobile living space. For more information, visit https://www.livingvehicle.com/.

About Watergen

Watergen is an Israel-based company, owned by businessman and philanthropist Michael Mirilashvili, whose mission is to provide clean, safe drinking water to anyone and everywhere in the world. Watergen's patented technology extracts water from air in a highly efficient manner. By using food-grade materials and a multi-step cleaning and filtration process, it becomes a safe and delicious source of drinking water, without extracting and filtering ground water. Various forms and solutions can be implemented, addressing a wide variety of needs and locations. The water generator can be powered by any energy source, including solar panels, to make it 100% off-grid and 100% sustainable. The advanced technology makes it possible to produce water even in extremely arid climates, with just 20% humidity. For more information, visit https://www.watergen.com/.

Contact: Hawkins International, a Finn Partners company
HIPR-livingvehicle@finnpartners.com

The game-changing integrated water from air system allows owners to stay off-grid longer than ever before.
The 2023 model is Living Vehicle’s most self-sufficient trailer to date.
Cision

View original content to download multimedia:https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/introducing-the-electric-2023-living-vehicle-with-industry-changing-solar-water-generation-technology-301572045.html

SOURCE Living Vehicle

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#30 2022-06-21 20:04:03

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,663

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

I did look at the content earlier in the day and the unit is targeted to cost 3,000 and get about 5 gallons a day. It might last 5 to 10 years as its got to be protected so its a warm weather location for use as you need to protect it from the elements. I did not remember the wattage for power but I am sure its not cheap unless you use solar power to run it as the rv would.

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#31 2022-07-12 17:25:29

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 13,992

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

https://www.yahoo.com/news/wausau-could … 51859.html

For SpaceNut ... this technology is being implemented for an entire community,

I wonder if it could work at the level of a single house hold with ground water that needs cleanup.

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Wausau could soon have some of the best water in the country, thanks to 'forever chemical' filters

Laura Schulte, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Mon, July 11, 2022 at 7:01 AM
After the installation of a new water treatment system to address "forever chemicals," Wausau will likely have some of the best drinking water in the country.

In June, the city approved plans for a $16.8 million treatment system that will run its drinking water through a series of carbon filters — known as granulated activated carbon, or GAC — effectively removing not only PFAS but many other contaminants, said Eric Lindman, the city's public works director.

"It'll be significantly higher quality than what we have now," he said. "We'll probably have some of the highest quality in the nation."

The city will likely also be the first in the state to treat its entire water supply for PFAS, Lindman said, making Wausau an example for other municipalities that find the compounds in their own drinking water.

The system will be built over the next two years after the city looks into funding sources from both state and federal agencies, Lindman said. In the meantime, the city will have a short-term filtration system running at its new water treatment facility, which is scheduled to go online in August. That system will bring PFAS levels down to about 12 to 15 parts per trillion, Lindman said, well under the state's regulations of 70 parts per trillion.

But the carbon system will filter to much lower levels, possibly even down to levels that are undetectable by current testing methods.

PFAS are a family of man-made chemicals used for their water- and stain-resistant qualities in products like clothing and carpet, nonstick cookware, packaging and firefighting foam. The family includes 5,000 compounds, which are persistent, remaining both in the environment and human body over time.

More: Here's what you should know about PFAS, the 'forever contaminant' being identified in more locations across Wisconsin

The chemicals have been linked to types of kidney and testicular cancers, lower birth weights, harm to immune and reproductive systems, altered hormone regulation and altered thyroid hormones. The chemicals enter the human body largely through drinking water.

Despite the fact that PFAS have been around for generations, there is still much ongoing research into how best to remove the "forever chemicals" from water supplies.

Wausau was found to have elevated levels of PFAS in all six of its drinking wells in January, causing the city to launch an effort to get bottled water and filtration pitchers out to residents. Since then, the city has distributed $240,000 worth of pitchers and bottled water, all while researching a way to clean the millions of gallons of water it pumps to 16,000 homes each day.

The days following the announcement were hectic, with city officials scrambling for answers and solutions as scared community members asked questions about the safety of their water.

More: Wausau has 'forever chemicals' throughout its water system. What the city does next could set a blueprint for other cities

Katie Rosenberg, Wausau's mayor, said that thanks to an influx of federal funding through the infrastructure program and COVID-19 relief packages, there will be funding to help pay for the system and its installation.

"We're trying to add it all up and get the financing right so that we know exactly what we're in for. But it's looking good, at least from the standpoint of pulling in funds from elsewhere. So it's not just residents footing the bill," she said. "But you know, it's still $16 million extra that wasn't anticipated and maybe it could have been."

At this point, the city expects that the average residential user's quarterly bill will increase by $12 overall to help pay for the system.

'It is a complicated message'
One of the hardest parts to navigate for the city hasn't been deciding on a treatment system or getting residents water to drink in the meantime.

What has been difficult is the constantly changing landscape for the regulation of PFAS in Wisconsin.

When Wausau's contamination was first discovered, the state's health advisory limit was 20 parts per trillion, as recommended by the Department of Health Services. All of its wells were above that number.

More: 'Forever chemicals' linked to high blood pressure in women, new study shows

But a month later, the Natural Resources Board, which sets policy for the state Department of Natural Resources, approved a higher limit of 70 ppt in drinking water. The Legislature allowed that regulation to take effect in June. None of Wausau's wells reached numbers that high, though, leading to confusion.

Also in June, the Environmental Protection Agency released new health advisory limits much lower than either of Wisconsin's numbers — 0.004 ppt for PFOA and 0.02 ppt for PFOS.

"It is a complicated message to give to the public," Rosenberg said. "But, you know, we're going to try and get us as low as possible."

The city is looking to avoid having to change the filtration system in the future if numbers are lowered again by either the state or federal government. Lindman said it's the best way to navigate the conflicting levels, while at the same time ensuring that residents can feel secure drinking the water from their taps.

"We're trying to keep a project moving, improve water quality to the best we can and still meet any future drinking water standards," he said.

MORE: 'Forever chemicals' are present in many fast-food wrappers, and Culver's says it is working to phase them out

Lindman said he hopes that the aggressive action taken against PFAS shows residents that the city and Wausau Water Works has their best interests in mind, and providing safe and clean water is one of the highest priorities. The PFAS situation did cause uncertainty and fear for a period of time, over Wausau's water supply and its safety.

"I know we've lost some credibility with the public and I certainly hope over the next few months that we're able to gain that back," he said. "There's still a lot we don't know, but I think that moving forward, answers will come and we'll share those as we get them."

Laura Schulte can be reached at leschulte@jrn.com and on Twitter at @SchulteLaura.

THANK YOU: Subscribers' support makes this work possible. Help us share the knowledge by buying a gift subscription.

DOWNLOAD THE APP: Get the latest news, sports and more

This article originally appeared on Milwaukee Journal Sentinel: Wausau hopes PFAS fix gives it the best drinking water in the country

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#32 2022-07-12 17:43:17

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,663

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

drinking water through a series of carbon filters — known as granulated activated carbon, or GAC — effectively removing not only PFAS

activated carbon filters are well known but they are replaced often.

The brita units that take tap water, and you pour it through them to get a pitcher to put into a refrigerator is this stuff.
https://britapro.com/water-filtration/

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#33 2022-07-12 18:42:29

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 13,992

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut re #32

Thanks for the link you provided.  I'm planning to follow it to see the system.

In the mean time, your comment about changing filters inspires this question ... ? how do customers recharge such filters for reuse?

Is it common practice to send the filters back to the factory to recycle them?

Or is there a way to flush contaminants out and reuse the material?

Does the term "activated" carbon mean that use causes the carbon to be "deactivated"?

Is the factory the only place the filter can be "activated"?

These are probably questions I could ask Google, so I've made a mental note to do that.

(th)

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#34 2022-07-12 19:01:52

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 27,663

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

Activated usually has a chlorine within it. Most are designed as disposal. Those filters that are not use back washing to remove contaminants which is why they fail as the water used to do the back wash is the same water that needs cleaning, so it just plugs the filter.
I am assuming that granulated means made from many pellets sized rather than a single chunk that the home stuff would use.

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#35 2022-07-12 20:35:22

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 13,992

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut re #34

Thanks for explaining about the way a home owner would use carbon filters.

It would be better all around if the filters could be cleaned at home.  Your point about using water to clean a filter is a good one, but it does make me wonder if air could be used for cleaning, for the reason you gave.

The point about chlorine being present also makes sense (to me at least) but I'm not sure it is needed for the filter function.  it might be there in a consumer product to protect against life forms in the water.

Life forms in the water is not what you're dealing with.

I'd like to see this topic make steady progress toward finding a solution that works for all users, regardless of their physical location, and regardless of the contaminants.  Whatever system comes out of this topic should deliver water molecules and nothing else, while routing all contaminants to proper receptacles for further processing.

On Mars, ** every ** molecule will need to be recovered for reuse, so the Earth is a good place to practice to achieve that.

(th)

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#36 2022-07-13 19:15:45

SpaceNut
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Posts: 27,663

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

As summer approaches well have less water replacing what gets used and that means the contaminant levels rise in the remaining level of water that is in the well. This makes the filter work even harder to remove them so that you get clean water. Thee back washing to clean makes this concentrating of contaminants makes that level increase even more.

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#37 2022-07-13 19:40:53

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 13,992

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut re #36

I'm not getting through .... why is water used for backwashing?

Why not use air?

(th)

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#38 2022-07-13 19:52:40

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,663

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

Air would dry the contaminant within the filter as you cannot blow them out....its not something that can be removed from the canister its within. These are a large tank bottle with filter inside of them.

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#39 2022-07-14 06:23:47

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 13,992

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut re #38

Thanks for taking up the question of how to clear contaminants from a filter designed to remove contaminants from water.

Is there a reference you can show that confirms your theory?  It seems likely to me that (as a consumer) you would have purchased a product from a vendor.

If that is the case, you would (probably) have simply accepted their solution as the only solution, or perhaps as the most cost effective solution for a consumer product, or perhaps as the solution that guarantees the greatest possible income to the vendor due to consumer lack of knowledge.

Your theory seems to be that applying air to a mass of filter loaded with contaminant would dry the contaminant within the filter. If by "dry" you mean that water would be blown out, then we can agree on that.

But does the absence of water mean the contaminant is forever bonded to the filter?  It may be!  I think we have absolutely no ideal.

In order to find out, we would have to retrace the work of the product developers.

What is clearly needed for Mars or for Earth, is a contaminant removal process that works rapidly, effectively and in industrial scales.

The municipal water cleaning operations on Earth, described by RobertDyck in one of his posts from the early years of the forum, ** do ** clean massive quantities of contaminated water.  By making the facility large enough, they can achieve the needed throughput.

What I am looking for from this topic is a solution that works rapidly and effectively for a single individual in a field location, or for a small group, such as a family n a camping trip.  There are all sorts of solutions on offer, but none of them (that I have seen so far) address more than a small part of the problem.

The reason is pretty simple ... we humans do not yet have the ability to separate atoms/molecules at the atomic level.  All devices or systems used to separate contaminants in water use bulk methods.  It is testimonial to human ingenuity that we have the capabilities we ** do ** have.  I am pressing for continued progress, until we arrive at a solution that works effectively and efficiently at the atomic level, to remove all contaminants from water.

Returning to the matter at hand ... please check to see if there is a reference that supports your theory about why air might not work to remove contaminants from a carbon based water cleansing solution.

(th)

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#40 2022-07-14 19:15:39

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 27,663

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

This is the typical back wash type
whole-home-filters_min.png

The head has power for a timer, the water inlet and outlet from the filter and a valve to control waste out connection when in back wash mode.

This is the typical disposalable filter
12770035.jpg

canister is clear to allow for visual to seen when full, it has a shut off on the top or inline to allow for the canister to be opened so that the filter inside can be changed.

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#41 2022-07-31 17:32:56

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,663

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

It's time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate the feasibility of moving water West

Old River Control Structure is so important is that it already has the infrastructure used since the 1950s to currently divert 30% of the southbound flow of the Mississippi above the OCRS over to the Atchafalaya River in Louisiana and down to the Gulf of Mexico.

Yes, this would require massive pumping stations to lift the water up the Continental Divide at some point (the lowest lift would be 4,000 feet in Campbell, New Mexico, close to Albuquerque), but then it would be all downhill using gravity to Lake Powell or somewhere else on the Colorado above the Glen Canyon Dam.

I suggested diverting 250,000 gallons/second, which is only about 5% of the flow on the lower Mississippi south of the Old River Control Structure (ORCS) in Central Louisiana 300 miles above New Orleans. This water does nothing except flow out into the Gulf of Mexico. It generates no electricity and doesn’t help commercial shipping or recreational boating. It only causes flooding problems in New Orleans. No state above the OCRS would suffer any loss of water.

If 250,000 gals/sec is impractical, have the Corps consider a flow of 125,000 gals/sec (only 2.5% of the downriver flow), which would take two to three years to fill Lakes Powell and Mead. This is a rather rapid and reasonable time frame to solve the water problems of the Southwest.

The California Aqueduct from Sacramento to Los Angeles (average 110 feet wide x 30 feet deep) has a capacity of about 100,000 gals/sec. The Edmonston pumping station at the south end of the California Aqueduct lifts that water up 2,000 feet over the Tehachapi Mountains into the Los Angeles basin.

Those old pumps (installed in the early 1970s) have a capacity of 33,333 gals/sec, which is why there are storage lakes to smooth out the excess flow. The Corps has already installed pumps in New Orleans with 5 times the capacity (150,000 gal/sec) of the Edmonston pumps to prevent flooding. The Corps thus already has the experience of pumping these huge amounts of water.

It is roughly 1,400 miles from the OCRS to Lake Powell, but that really means building 1,400 miles of something similar to an interstate highway. The U.S. has already built 47,000 miles of such highways, so another 1,400 miles doesn’t feel insurmountable.

Sounds a lot like the I 80 path, only thats sea water

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#42 2022-08-01 06:16:27

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 13,992

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

This is primarily for SpaceNut (all others welcome)....

Today's news feed contained an article about arsenic in water in a town, and the problems that is causing

I'll try to find the article again, and post a link and (hopefully) a bit of the text.

https://news.yahoo.com/theres-arsenic-w … p_catchall

This topic was set up (somewhat bravely) to record the solving of the problem of separation of molecules from each other when embedded in a fluid.

Separation of molecules from each other when they are embedded in a solid is a different problem, requiring different solutions.

Separation of molecules from each other when they are moving freely in a gas is a different problem, requiring different (although similar) solutions.

Human history through to this point in time in 2022, do NOT provide the separation technologies that are only recently available.  We are NOW able to separate molecules from each other as individuals.  In past millennia, all that humans could do was to separate molecules using crude bulk methods.  Great human achievement in performing mass transformations of large numbers of molecules is recorded, and many Nobel Prizes have been awarded for achievements in this areal 

The time has come for the next set of Nobel Prizes, in the field of nanotechnology applied to the molecule separation problem.

Removal of iron from water in NewHampshire is an example of the kind of application needed.

Removal of arsenic from water in the community whose plight was reported in today's news feed is another example.

The process I am talking about may be seen today in large warehouses, where packages are sorted under computer control.

Conveyer belts, wheeled robots, and overhead carrier tracks provide for movement of packages from where they enter the facility, through temporary storage, and on to exit portals.

The mechanism for separation of molecules suspended in water will (I hope and trust) follow a similar pattern.  Water molecules will arrive from the external environment in a thoroughly mixed state.  Upon arrival to the sorting facility, the characteristics of each arriving molecule will be read just as the bar codes on boxes are read in an Amazon warehouse.  The molecules will then be routed to approporiate destinations.

All of this activity is going to require energy, so developers of these systems (and their managers) need to understand that and be prepared for it.

There should be NO talk of keeping costs down or improving efficiency.  This is a nanotechnological process that operates at the quantum level.  Each individual molecules is an identifiable package that gets routed.  It is not changed by the process, any more than a package is changed (hopefully) while traveling from one end of an Amazon warehouse to another.

This topic is set up to provide a location for updates on evolution of this new capability, along with review and recording of older methods that remain useful and in use today.

(th)

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#43 2022-08-01 06:22:47

tahanson43206
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Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

Here is part of the Yahoo report on Arsenic in water ...

The New York Times
When There's Arsenic in the Water, but 'We Have Nowhere to Go'
Ana Facio-Krajcer and Jill Cowan
Sun, July 31, 2022 at 10:21 AM·10 min read

The E.P.A. has required the Oasis Mobile Home Park to provide bottled water to residents. But residents have claimed the park's longtime owner, who died last year, increased the rent to offset the cost of providing bottled water after the E.P.A. order in 2019 and made it difficult for residents to pick up the water they needed. (NYT)
THERMAL, Calif. — Three times a week, Pascual Campos Ochoa, 26, loads up a duffel bag with a brown fleece blanket and a plastic container of oatmeal. A van picks him up from the dusty trailer park where he lives — where stray dogs wander among the carcasses of old cars, and working electricity is not a given — and takes him to a clinic for kidney dialysis.

Campos Ochoa is the youngest person to require the treatment at the clinic; he has been on dialysis since he was 18 and is waiting for a kidney donor.

Still, it was not until recently, he said, that he considered that his health problems may be tied to the trailer he has shared with his family for 16 years at the Oasis Mobile Home Park — and the water tainted with high levels of arsenic that spewed for years from its aging pipes.

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For years, people living at the park, home to a little more than 1,000 residents in about 230 units, have suffered from a variety of health problems. They have varied from persistent rashes and hair loss to kidney disease like Campos Ochoa’s and even cancer — that residents and their advocates say may be caused by contaminated water.

In 2019, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency found levels of arsenic in the park’s water as high as almost 10 times the allowable limit. Arsenic, which is naturally occurring, has been linked to those ailments as well as an array of other severe and chronic symptoms.

No comprehensive study has been done of the causes and extent of the health issues at Oasis, and the agricultural work most residents do consistently ranks among the nation’s most hazardous occupations.

New management at the park said it has spent more than $400,000 since November to fix the water problems — plus more than $840,000 to provide alternative water. But residents are still being warned not to drink the water or use it for cooking, bathing or brushing their teeth. Government agencies, including the EPA and Riverside County, as well as community advocates, all agreed that the living conditions at Oasis have been untenable.

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#44 2022-08-01 06:43:56

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 13,992

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

This is a follow up to Post #43

This topic is set up to encourage development of a water cleaning process that operates at the nano scale.  The end goal is a system that can operate at the level of a home (or a trailer in a mobile home park) or on a camping trip, up to the scale of a municipality or (ultimately) cleaning of an entire river before it enters a lake or the ocean.

The process will operate similarly to a package routing warehouse, such as those created by FedEx, UPS or Amazon, to route packages from intake to output using nothing but bar codes (or OCR codes) to inform the master computers where the packages are and where they are headed.

An easy first step is to build a machine able to pick iron molecules (or molecules containing iron) out of a water environment.

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#45 2022-08-01 18:46:50

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,663

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

The separation is done with membranes and electricity where the sea water was attracted via the current where the salt passes through the membrane and the fresh passes through the opposite side where it passes through it and out of the cell.

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#46 2022-08-01 19:02:08

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 13,992

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

For SpaceNut re #45

Thank you for continuing to think about how we can improve upon existing technology, which is insufficient to meet the need today, let alone what we (humans) are facing both on Earth and away.

Your description of existing (inadequate) technology seems (to me at least) like a good starting point.

We need a sorting system that does not have to be flushed of contaminants.

Think of an automated warehouse, such as those used by FedEx, UPS, Amazon and others.

Boxes arrive at the intake port(s) with barcodes.  They are routed through the facility under computer control, based upon the barcodes read frequently throughout the process, until the boxes are delivered to the correct output port.

We want a molecule separation technique that emulates that process at the nanoscale level.

Such a system does NOT exist on Earth, but it has existed in conceptual form for a number of years.

"Engines of Creation" was published decades ago now, and people who have read that book or many others inspired by the work have been working in academia and in industry every since.

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#47 2022-08-16 18:02:55

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 27,663

Re: How to Prepare Water for Use: Drinking - House - Farm - Manufacturing

If you have free standing water but no power then a free energy pump will be needed to move the water
https://youtu.be/TY8AkTlBl2k


Of course if it's a well this will work
https://youtu.be/dV9B_yWgYEs

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