New Mars Forums

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,361

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

For Void re #25

Please ** do ** continue your line of thought!

kbd512 has visions that differ from yours, and this topic is more than large enough for both of you .

There is ** no ** need for anyone to feel pressure to adjust their ideas based upon anything other than Ma Nature, who hands down decisions without partiality.

I personally ** like ** what I understand to be your idea, and I hope you will favor us (the forum plus non-member readers) with your vision of how your idea might be adopted by space architects.

I have adapted your idea slightly, and hope that my version of your idea might be given a bit of breathing room.

Ultimately, the ideas that are best are ** most ** likely to receive funding, and funding is the name of the game.

If your idea is most cost effective for building large structures in space, then it will receive funding.

(th)

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,812

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

It is fine, I look forward to what the members do here.  I do not want to be a problem of interference with it.  I just wanted to make sure we understood each other's intentions.

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tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,361

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

For Void ... the wording of post #27 seems to imply you will now abandon your idea before it has a chance to sprout, or whatever ideas do.

I hope you will give the idea some nourishment in another topic if not in this one.

(th)

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,812

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

No, I have been addressing it in a collection of ideas here: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=10867&p=2

I just am very interested in getting propellants from the metal of the ships, and then also as a side line structure as well.

The ideas I am working on are a bit too far removed from this topic.

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kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,847

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

tahanson43206,

To be perfectly frank, Void's idea is something that should be pursued first, because if that actually works it means a very simple solution is at hand to travel between planets using bits and pieces of existing flight hardware.  I'm not against Void's idea at all, because I don't care how this vehicle gets built as long as it actually works.  I'm after the end result, not the aesthetics nor personal preferences.  If lopping off the crew compartment of a Starship and welding it up to part of another vehicle actually works, I'll dance a jig over it and move on to the next interesting problem.

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,361

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

For kbd512 re #30

It appears that Void will be heading off to other topics, after dropping off the seed of an idea in this one.

I am reminded of Johnny Appleseed, who traveled around the newly formed United States of America to earn a living by distributing apple seeds. 

In this case, the essence of the idea (as I understand it) is to send the second stage of a Starship launch up to LEO to be incorporated into a large structure in assembly there.

The second stage does not have to be round.  Round is a logical shape for an enclosure for round tanks.  However, the second stage could have walls that are flat.  The design has to be strong enough to endure the forces of launch.

And if we grant that the walls could be flat, then it is a small leap to imagine walls that are gently curved to match the exterior of a gigantic Solar System vessel, such as the dual counter rotating habitat vessels described by kbd512 and GW Johnson elsewhere in the forum archive.

Thus, a single Starship designed for this purpose could deliver four panels for the wall of a Large Ship.

The tanks could be used as is for storage of liquids or gases in the large vessel.

What I'm looking for and hope will happen, is that one of the large vessel designers will tackle specification of components to be assembled on orbit to make a useful vessel for inter-planetary service.

Specifications would include (but not be limited to)...

1) Length
2) Width
3) Curvature
4) Thickness
5) Material
6) Mass
7) Specific assigned location on large vessel

At the moment all we have (that I have seen) is broad brush descriptions of large vessels.

Some of the work of RobertDyck can be interpreted as detailed, but we ran out of steam when we tried to imagine how to actually build the unitary rotating habitat design of RobertDyck.

My interpretation is that most of work done to build the single unitary design of RobertDyck could be adapted for the dual counter rotating designs of kbd512 and GW Johnson.

I note that the designs of kbd512 and GW Johnson are vastly different in size.

It seems likely to me that the smaller vessel would be attempted as a precursor for the gigantic one.

On the other hand, the methods developed to build the smaller vessel should be usable for construction of the large one.

What I'm looking for is a plan that could be implemented with funding.

What we have now are visions of what might be done, and those are essential, but by themselves they are insufficient.

(th)

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,812

Re: Large Ship Component Manufacture on Earth

Well, I like this:

Four Starship Crew Compartments ganged together.

I am looking at nuclear electric propulsion with metal propellants, (Magdrive).

I don't like aerobraking to Mars myself, but each capsule might do it to aerobrake to orbit, but of course you would have to reverse the floor plan so to present convex to the atmosphere, and you would need a heat shield scheme.

The four sections could be reassembled after aerobraking.

For my part I am anticipating the use of nuclear electric (Jetson), with metal propellants, and perhaps the use of ballistic capture.  And with no Aerobraking, the convex floors of the Crew Capsules will not be a problem.

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Jetson: https://www.space.com/space-nuclear-pow … in%20space.
Quote:

The U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL) awarded $33.7 million to Lockheed Martin as part of the Joint Emergent Technology Supplying On-Orbit Nuclear (JETSON) effort to "mature high-power nuclear electric power and propulsion technologies and spacecraft design."

JETSON aims to launch a fission reactor that will be started up once in space.

It is possible that the tanks of the Starships might be converted to propellants.  Then at Mars, you might get metals from Phobos or Deimos, should you want to return to Earth, or go somewhere else.

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Last edited by Void (Today 09:06:01)

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