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#51 2022-03-03 13:35:38

Terraformer
Member
From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,800
Website

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

What a bizarre thread this is. Calliban is citing David Duke on the Global Jewish Conspiracy. kbd512 is praising the charge of the light brigade mentality. I'm saying that Ukraine is hopelessly outmatched. And clark is... being clark. All rather pointless discussion really. The Ukrainians will continue to get themselves killed, until it sinks in as their cities fall that the NATO intervention they are desperate for is not coming and they negotiate a worse peace than they could have otherwise (Russia doesn't want to lose people either).


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#52 2022-03-03 16:38:54

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 7,362

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Terraformer,

If the troops at Dunkirk had ammunition, then they should've continued to shoot back at the nazis (and they did).  If they ran out of ammunition, then they should have retreated to obtain more ammo (and they did).  When you have a rifle in your hands, you continue to shoot at the enemy until you run out of ammo, win or lose.  When you were in the military, were you taught any different?

For a nation with "zero" experience fighting on our own soil, somehow we managed to defeat those redcoats.  The British military was purported to be the most powerful military on Earth at the time.  I guess our ancestors didn't get that memo.  For the English, it's a gosh darn good thing that they didn't, otherwise they'd all be speaking German or Russian by now.  Incidentally, we don't consider fighting back to be "throwing our lives away".  The entire notion of not fighting back against a brutal dictator is what I find "alien".

You were destined to die from the moment you were born.  The entire idea of "dying for something" vs "dying for nothing" is what I find laughably absurd.  When you fight back, you can die a free man, not beholden to the capricious dictates of tyrants.  When you refuse to fight back, you may be permitted to live on your knees for awhile, but in the end you will still die.  Some of us prefer to live free.

Calliban,

I don't hate the Russians, but their government's dictator is a threat to humanity that must be dealt with militarily, because that is the only kind of power that dictators understand.  Someone who is constantly threatening nuclear war is not someone who should be running a country armed with nuclear weapons.  There are no Israelis to blame for Russia attacking Ukraine.  No Israeli put a gun to Putin's head and made him attack Ukraine.  Russia decided to attack Ukraine because they had enough oil money saved up to do so.  Ukraine has never been any kind of military threat to Russia.  Any such assertion is about as absurd as positing that America has carte blanche to attack Canada because someone from China is trying to influence events in Canada.  It's a non-sequitur.

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#53 2022-03-03 20:52:51

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,750

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

I believe the Russians have listened to the ride of Paul Revere in that they have come by land and it would seem that they will come by sea as well.

Seems that the long convoy was hit by airplanes as a reason that they are moving slowly.

ONE of Vladimir Putin’s top generals was shot dead by a sniper in a major blow to the Kremlin’s war plan to annihilate Ukraine.


More troops heading to the Ukraine Russia Vows Prosecution of Foreign Fighters After 16K Join Ukraine

Putin is getting his wish of more NATO countries Moldova officially applies for EU membership

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#54 2022-03-04 03:40:56

Terraformer
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From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,800
Website

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

When was the last time American civilians took any collateral damage?

To be quite honest, I think labelling Denmark as a nation of cowards, and saying the Channel Islanders should have fought to the death, and criticising the residents of Kherson for not joining the small group that tried to resist and got completely obliterated for their trouble, is an absolutely disgusting take. And I'm glad the Japanese (even the Japanese!) were not as bullheaded as kbd.


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#55 2022-03-04 05:32:58

Calliban
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From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 3,352

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

You both make interesting points.  The whole surrender vs fight debate here is impossible for me to form a solid opinion on.  It is too situation specific to apply any generalised principles to.  I am tempted to say that the fact that a fight may appear hopeless, does not make the cause unjust.  No one ever won freedom by rolling over.  But the people on the ground have to use their own judgement.  They are facing deadly force.

In the specific case of Russia, I would point out that Putin is not a dictator.  He is a democratically elected president and he is popular in Russia.  The decision to invade Ukraine was supported by the Russian parliament.  That doesn't mean that it was necessarily the right decision or a wise one for Russia in the long term.  But Russia is not a dictatorship, anymore than the US was a dictatorship at the time of the Iraq invasion.  Both invasions are roughly equivalent if you want to assess them on moralistic grounds.  Democratic governments are always ruled by cabals in one way or another.  But it is no more the case for Russia than it is for the US.

I have tried to make the point here that no one in the western world is free anyway.  We all serve a group of oligarchic masters that control our government and media.  It should tell you something that we are apparently forbidden to criticise these people in any way, because it is 'antisemitic'.  I believe it was Voltaire who said something to the effect of "if want to know who controls you, figure out who you are not allowed to criticise".  To my mind, hushing up the quiet takeover of the western world, for fear of offending our oppressors, is the most dishonorable form of cowardice.  I can forgive the Ukrainians for not wanting to storm tanks with 50 year old AK47s.  But what kind of a coward dares not speak of his oppression for fear of offending people?  That kind of person has to be the most contemptible and worthless of people.  And we see that sort of cowardice on this board.  The idea that the oppression and unjust control of one group of people by another, should be hushed up, for fear of hurting the second groups feelings, or creating ill will towards them, is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.  Many of the same people that advocate that, would chastise the Danes for not trying to fight Stuckers and Panzers with bolt action rifles.  I find it bizarre that people have been conned into thinking that it is wrong and unjust to even talk about our loss of freedom, because it happens to be at the hands of one group of people rather than another.

Last edited by Calliban (2022-03-04 05:40:33)


"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

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#56 2022-03-04 10:04:10

kbd512
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Posts: 7,362

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Calliban,

Yes, Putin is "democratically elected for life", and all his political opponents are jailed or shot or poisoned to death, and he imprisons anyone who protests his government's activities.  The communists in China were "democratically elected" as well.  That nonsense doesn't fly with me.

The invasion of Iraq was conducted under false pretenses, but the people of the United States were lead to believe that the Iraqis had or were trying to acquire nuclear weapons, based upon intelligence from the CIA.  In 8 years time, President Bush was out of power, never to return to power, same as his father after 4 years.  No such thing has happened in Russia, because Putin will never allow it.  Saddam did attempt to acquire Uranium, but without a reactor the quantities of Uranium that they were able to obtain were never enough to make a nuclear weapon.

Oddly enough, when American military forces re-entered Iraq, they found that the personnel at known Iraqi chemical weapons sites were still wearing protective gear, despite the assertion that all chemical weapons had been destroyed.  We did find small caches of chemical weapons, but it seems that Saddam or his military destroyed or disposed of the vast majority of those weapons.

More importantly, the "no-fly zone" which was a precondition of the cease fire agreement was routinely violated and they continually fired at our aircraft during the cease-fire (the years between the two Gulf Wars), which was itself a violation of our cease fire agreement following the first Gulf War.  Those of us in the Navy were all too happy to go after the SAM and AAA sites firing at our F/A-18s, so the resumption of the war on our part allowed us to do that.  Bush may have been concerned about "his daddy", but we had our own reasons for going along with "da plan", which was our survival in the air over Iraq while enforcing the no-fly zone.  Saddam was deposed / captured / condemned to die by his own people.  We wanted to put him in Gitmo, but the Iraqis weren't having any of that.  We returned control to an elected government, then made the mistake of hanging around for their religiously-fueled civil war.  The moment after all those Iraqis had blue-purple fingers, we should've left so that al-Qaeda / ISIS / Taliban would've instead followed America into Afghanistan where they could be annihilated with far fewer civilian casualties.

The only reason we went to Iraq the first time was that our British allies invoked our mutual protection pact and insisted that America participate in their military operation against Iraq after Iraq invaded Kuwait, a British protectorate.  Stop blaming us for following international military agreements on British orders and protecting your protectorate.  Kuwait will not be attacked by Iraq again.  We did our job, so stop whining about the manner in which we did it.  Bush believed the CIA, and the CIA made more of thin evidence than there was to it.  It's not "Bush lied, people died", it's "the CIA lied to Bush and then people died".  He ignored the CIA report on al-Qaeda and then Americans died during 9/11, so he learned from his mistake and took them seriously when they had evidence, however scant, that Iraq wanted to nuke America in retaliation for Gulf War I.

Nobody is "hushing up the takeover of the western world".  The "western world" is fractured by woke-ism and opinionated idiots who don't understand or care that people like President Putin and President Xi and our own American Marxists / Leninists are the driving forces preventing us from being united in our cause against dictatorships and "democratic people's republics".  Communism remains the actual threat.  It always has been and probably always will be.

Here in America the village idiots overwhelmed an actual President and installed their "super idiot", because "muh Trump, whahh whahh whahh".  They've been indoctrinated from birth to gobble up whatever propaganda the corporate media feeds to them, regurgitate it to everyone else, and to never exhibit any independent thought, which they're wholly incapable of ever doing.  That's the end result of multiple generations of university-indoctrinated American Marxists being taught what to think, rather than how to think.  Sadly, they believe themselves to be the exact opposite of what they truly are, because they've been brain-programmed into being subservient useless idiots.  Trump's "great crime" was showing the world how stupid and feckless they all are, not because he's any kind of genius, but because they're so painfully stupid.

What did President Trump actually do?
1. Show truth faith and allegiance to his fellow Americans (buy American, hire American, support Americans first and then consider everyone else)
2. Call out all BS, even that of his own party (when you're taking flak from all sides, you know you're over the target)
3. Defend American borders from invaders (no handouts to illegal aliens, strengthen privileges for legal immigrants)
4. Defend American interests (use proportioning principles to enact fair trade deals with other countries that are not harmful to American labor, no treaties that are prejudicial to the US, such as the Iran Nuclear Deal)
5. Peace through projection of strength, not starting new wars (diplomatically carrying the biggest stick and knowing when not to use it, such as when Iran shot down one of our drones, and he showed restraint in application of military force because it could kill civilians)

President Trump was a Democrat his entire adult life, and as such Democrats never so much as farted in his direction as long as he was handing money out to them.  The moment he ran for President as a Republican, he became "worse than Hitler" because he threatened their criminal enterprise (that of the Republican and Democrat political parties) by exposing it by simply "being himself".  His "fatal faults" include an ego bigger than the known universe and not listening to people who are trying to keep him out of hot water.  That said, when it comes to dealing with hard-nosed dictators he knows how to keep them from destroying the world, whereas all the others simply dither about while Rome burns.  He always sided with the American people over any other competing interests, because he fundamentally loves his people.  We paid $4 over 4 years and benefited from more prosperity than we had since the early days of John F. Kennedy, prior to his murder and the murder of his brother.  That was the Democrat Party of my childhood, the one I admired.  President Trump successfully shamed the Republican Party back into supporting the American people.  No such driving force exists within the Democrat Party of today.

So long as Joe "dementia patient" Biden and Kamala "bi-polar patient" Harris remain in the White House, you Europeans are also in mortal danger from President Putin.  So...  Get your stuff together, stop whining about woulda / coulda / shoulda, and don't waste another moment waiting for America to decide what to do.  Putin will overrun Europe before that happens, because the mental patients are now running the funny farm.  Learn something from your own relatively recent history, fer cryin' out loud.  WWII wasn't that long ago, but everyone left alive who remembered it is dead, so WWIII is on its way.  Stop trying to appease the brutal dictator.  That didn't work the last time and it won't work this time, either.

Anyway, much like clark, you need to get off the race / religion / skin color nonsense, because it's only dividing us and giving the communists more political ammunition to use against people who cherish freedom and prosperity.  Russia's government respects force of arms and nothing else.  It's always been that way.

Ukraine did not attack or invade Russia.  Iraq attacked and invaded Kuwait, so we responded in kind.  There is no equivalence between those two events, no matter how your brain attempts to revise history to align with your worldview.

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#57 2022-03-04 11:21:51

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 7,362

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Calliban,

I read several articles from the "The Unz Review".  Some of the logic is very contorted, which frequently happens the moment race and religion are used in lieu of other contributing factors.  Russia's government are masterful propaganda artists, second only to American mass media, and get the west to doubt themselves, which leads to inaction on our part.

Let's take this gem:

“In order to survive and preserve its leading role on the international stage, the US desperately needs to plunge Eurasia into chaos, (and) to cut economic ties between Europe and Asia-Pacific Region … Russia is the only (country) within this potential zone of instability that is capable of resistance. It is the only state that is ready to confront the Americans. Undermining Russia’s political will for resistance… is a vitally important task for America.” Nikolai Starikov, Western Financial System Is Driving It to War, Russia Insider

Russia invaded Ukraine, which actually plunged Europe into chaos.  So Russia is either doing America's bidding if Starikov's logic is to be believed, or plunging Europe and Asia in chaos was the exact opposite of what America actually wanted.  It's more like the Russians and Europeans do all of that stuff on their own, whether America is involved or not, and then propaganda artists try to blame America for what they're actually doing.

That's exactly like what happened when the antifa and blm street thugs were looting and burning down restaurants and grocery stores and beating up random civilian passersby while they were "fighting the nazi Police forces".  The notion that it was ever peaceful while billions upon billions of dollars worth of damage were done, and dozens of people killed, is a total absurdity sold to our useless idiots by our mass media- masters of death and destruction.  It's so farcical that it beggars belief, but there were people here who refused to make a peep about antifa and blm, because anyone they hate for ideological reasons "is a nazi", and therefore whatever is done to them is justified in the name of "de-nazification".  Sound familiar?

Russia's military wouldn't last a month if American and Russian forces fought a conventional war.  The same applies to China.  Since both countries are dictatorships, and all dictators freak out upon learning that they can't violently impose their will on others, therein lies the source of tension between "west and east".  Iraq had vastly more pieces of military equipment than Russia has brought to bear on Ukraine, but Iraq was a turkey shoot from start to finish.  Except for Russia's more modern SAMs and fighter jets, all other weapons used are precisely the same.  An AK is still an AK, a BMP is still a BMP, a T-72 is still a T-72, etc.  Gulf War I concluded when our military leaders decided that what they were doing to the Iraqi military was wrong, because no Iraqi units displayed any real ability to fight back, whether against our ground or air forces.

One other thought regarding your point about "protecting ethnic Russians" living in Ukraine.  It occurs to me that vastly more Ukrainian civilians have already been murdered than Russian civilians.  Two wrongs don't make a right, and the more disproportionate the wrong becomes, the less right it can ever be.  Any who participated in murdering civilians should be punished to the fullest extent of the law- life imprisonment or execution under US Code (no idea about Ukrainian law).

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#58 2022-03-04 12:10:45

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 7,362

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Here's another example of malarkey from the same Unz website:

Is it any wonder why ordinary people are so disgusted by this “rules-based” charade that only serves the wealthy and powerful? The truth is–as we all know–the United States used its political muscle to force German leaders into derailing a pipeline project that posed a threat to Washington’s primacy in Europe. That is what really happened; and that is why Nord Stream was targeted, sanctioned, and ultimately sabotaged. Even so, the incident is instructive. It shows quite clearly that one country–above all others–has its finger planted squarely on the scales so that only those transactions that jibe with its geostrategic objectives, go forward. If there was ever any question about that before, Nord Stream should put those doubts to rest.

President Biden approved the Nord Stream pipeline, so it officially has America's "Gold Seal of Approval".  The Germans decided not to proceed with certifying it after Russia invaded Ukraine.  What the hell is America supposed to do about that, put a gun to Germany's head and order them to buy Russian oil and gas?

Our government won't stop buying Russian oil and gas, but our corporations are now turning away Russian tankers.  Once again, President Biden can't order them to buy Russian products, so whatever public policy happens to be, is a moot point.  No acceptance of product is the same thing as no sale / no buy, so no money changes hands.

We did what we thought both Germany and Russia wanted done at the time (approve the Nord Stream pipeline).  The Republicans whined about it, but only because President Biden wouldn't approve the Canadian / American Keystone XL pipeline for jobs here at home.

President Trump asked Europe to slow the purchase of Russian oil and gas and to buy more from America instead, but he was ignored and President Biden does the opposite of whatever President Trump did, so Russia should be happier with America under President Biden, except that they're not because we've armed the people they're so intent on mass murdering using their military, and both political parties agree with doing that, irrespective of what the American people think is best.  The only part of the will of the people being respected is not immediately plunging us into another war following Afghanistan, but right now it sure as hell seems like they're trying to do that as well.

These are absurdly dishonest people, whether we're talking about Unz / American politicians / Russian politicians- take your pick.  We're living in bizarro world.

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#59 2022-03-04 18:04:04

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,750

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

There seems to be no bridge on the road to kviv as to why they have not taken the city over with that large convoy. It appears that the Ukraine have been attacking and doing damage to it. They also seem to have kill several more high ranking in the russian forces as well.

The starlink dish use Elon musk gave a warning to camo them and to not keep them on constantly but to move them about while using.

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#60 2022-03-05 09:08:04

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,750

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

3 captured Nuclear facilities which are under Russian control have civilians at gun point still operating them while the war continues on.

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#61 2022-03-05 10:13:32

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 7,362

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

SpaceNut,

The Russians will eventually use the nuclear engineers as hostages by threatening to kill them if they don't get what they want, similar to what ISIS did and the Taliban do.  The funny thing is that even the Taliban think the Russians have gone a bit too far.

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#62 2022-03-05 10:41:42

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,782
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Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

BusinessInsider: Video shows charred wreck of world's biggest airplane, the Antonov AN-225, after it was destroyed in Russian invasion of Ukraine
6221e8fed72a250019740fad?width=1000&format=jpeg&auto=webp

  • Russia aired video of the wrecked AN-225, the world's largest plane and a symbol of Ukrainian pride.

  • The plane was destroyed in a pitched battle for Hostomel airport, a key target near Kyiv.

  • Russia state TV sought to blame Ukraine for its destruction, despite evidence to the contrary.

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#63 2022-03-05 12:06:12

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 7,362

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Robert,

Yes, I saw that days ago.  A very unique and nearly irreplaceable transport capability has been lost, thanks to Russian violence.  It won't be rebuilt, either.  It's toast.  Revenue generated from the first airframe was being used to construct the second airframe, so now that the funding source for the build is gone, only donations or angel investors will permit us to regain the capability that the AN-225 provided to humanity.

Interestingly, NASA and team resumed flight testing of StratoLaunch in January and the aircraft was airborne for several hours during its last flight test.  As the world's fleet of 747s are retired in favor of large twins, the engines / landing gear / avionics should be used to build super heavy transports like the AN-225.  The airborne aircraft carrier concept could "come of age" using this surplus hardware.  Missions as varied as heavy / outsized air freight transport, humanitarian aid delivery, stratospheric orbital launch, fire fighting, refueling tankers, "arsenal ship" missile launch platform, airborne rocket or micro fighter jet launches, and more fall within the realm of feasibility when custom-built composite airframes are combined commodity engines / landing gear / avionics.

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#64 2022-03-05 12:06:35

Terraformer
Member
From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,800
Website

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Ouch. There's a fair few renewable energy projects that are running into problems now that a lot of the largest planes (An-124) are unavailable, due to either being in Ukraine, or owned by Russian operators who are subject to sanctions.


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#65 2022-03-05 12:49:08

kbd512
Administrator
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 7,362

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Terraformer,

Are trucks and ships insufficient to deliver solar panels and wind turbine blades?

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#66 2022-03-05 13:05:10

Terraformer
Member
From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,800
Website

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Some turbine blades are out of gauge I believe?


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#67 2022-03-05 13:22:11

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,782
Website

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

An aircraft can deliver cargo in hours. A ship takes weeks. An some turbine blades are so large that they can't fit under a highway bridge. A project will have to transport blades from the local airport to the construction site, but crossing a continent has a greater chance of encountering obstructions. Same issue with railroad bridges. In fact, the reason Space Shuttle SRBs were the size they were is that was the largest diameter that could fit through railroad tunnels between the factory in Utah and the launch site in Florida. Length was also an issue, not only for casting solid rocket propellant, but also turning corners in a railroad tunnel or railroad bridge. Modern wind turbine blades will have the same issues.

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#68 2022-03-05 13:26:20

RobertDyck
Moderator
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,782
Website

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

I worked for Powerland Computers in 2008/'09; at that time the owner was 69 years old. His behaviour was erratic, many employees felt he was becoming senile. He stood as candidate in the federal election of 2008, and political interference with the bank that provided his business loans forced him to sell his business. He tried to fight it, but the bank had better lawyers. By the time he sold, he was 70 so chose to treat that as retirement. Senility is a disease, it comes to different individuals at different ages; some people never become senile. But Vladimir Putin is 69 years old now. Has he become senile?

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#69 2022-03-05 17:41:21

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,750

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

It appears that the trigger happy Russian are shooting at anything that moves including those unarmed fleeing from them.
Seems that this is a game changer for the Ukraine's army is using a nimble 'game-changing' drone called The Punisher that has completed scores of successful missions against the Russians, that can carry 3kg of explosives and hit targets up to 30 miles behind enemy lines

AAUDHft.img?w=768&h=423&m=6

The electric drones have a 7.5-foot wingspan and can fly for hours at 1,300ft and need only the coordinates of their target so they can carry out their mission automatically, Punisher drones had completed up to 60 "successful" missions since the Russian invasion began.

The call to service is strong in many an American veterans are heading to Ukraine seeking to fight alongside Ukraine against Russia

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has in recent days called for an "international legion" of volunteers, and many civilians from other countries, willing to defend Ukraine and world order as part of the International Legion of Territorial Defense of Ukraine, I invite you to contact foreign diplomatic missions of Ukraine in your respective countries.

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#70 2022-03-06 14:11:42

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,750

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Arizona ammunition company pledges to send a million bullets to Ukraine's army, saying it stands for freedom and democracy

More on the call to arms
‘I Just Can’t Stand By’: American Veterans Join the Fight in Ukraine

Hector served two violent tours in Iraq as a United States Marine, then got out, got a pension and a civilian job, and thought he was done with military service. But on Friday, he boarded a plane for one more deployment, this time as a volunteer in Ukraine. He checked in several bags filled with rifle scopes, helmets and body armor donated by other veterans.

All across the United States, small groups of military veterans are gathering, planning and getting passports in order. After years of serving in smoldering occupations, trying to spread democracy in places that had only a tepid interest in it, many are hungry for what they see as a righteous fight to defend freedom against an autocratic aggressor with a conventional and target-rich army.


US, Poland consider deal to give fighter aircraft to Ukraine sending used MiG-29 and in turn receiving U.S.-made F16's, warplanes.

EU and NATO membership requests are up

Denmark to hold referendum on joining EU's common defense spooked by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, on whether to join the European Union’s defense pact and scrap the Nordic country’s 30-year-old opt-out from the bloc’s common security and defense policies.

1646508982951?e=1652313600&v=beta&t=VJW0L1jEtdhNdNYTZ8y9hRtgl-mYCl5CJIsE2GcjlUs

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#71 2022-03-06 19:40:03

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Some thoughts:

1.  Things have changed hugely from the 50s and 60s when the tank was King and people in Hungary and Czechoslovakia didn't have a chance in hell against the big beasts. Now with weapons like the Javelin, infantry can take on tanks and helicopters.  Even jet planes are vulnerable now from infantry weapons. 

2. Drones can be extremely effective.

3.  Ukraine and the USA should have prepared for this day much more effectively. If there were 100,000 anti-tank weapons in Ukraine, that would make a real difference.

4.  I am sure Taiwan are looking at all this and learning lessons.

5.  It's sad though that Ukraine just don't seem to have enough defensive weapons.

6. If there is a co-ordinated Ukraine support plan, I haven't seen it yet. They need solar power, batteries, water, military rations, medicines - and everything in the thousands and millions. Are the West holding back because they are afraid of Putin? 

7. Putin is clearly mentally unbalanced - I said this long before the invasion.  He now appears to be pretty much psychotic.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#72 2022-03-06 19:41:37

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Further to my previous post, I see Musk has put him and his companies in the firing line by supporting Ukraine in two ways: (a) putting more Starlink satellites in position to serve Ukraine and (b) sending them significant numbers of terminals to help them maintain internet contact.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#73 2022-03-07 00:38:13

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 7,362

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Louis,

1. In the early days of the Cold War, even heavy tanks were capable of being penetrated by rocket launchers.  The armor used on those vehicles was simple hardened steel that handheld HEAT warhead technology could readily defeat.  The newer heavy metal armor, explosive-reactive armor (tiles of armor consisting of two steel plates with explosive sandwiched between that breaks up HEAT jets and deflects penetrator darts), composite armor (alternating layers of different materials to break up HEAT jets), and active protection systems (essentially extreme precision shotgun shells or grenades that break up incoming warheads before they're detonated) simply didn't exist.

In the 1950s and 1960s, the Soviet military had a combined arms doctrine that used infantry with armor in something greatly resembling German "blitzkrieg" tactics.  From watching old films of their training vs what I've seen in Ukraine, it's hard to believe that they're essentially the same military.  Russian attacks in Ukraine seem very haphazard and loosely coordinated, almost like they're unable to coordinate the assault.  I'm sure there is some method to the madness, but it appears ineffective against an equally haphazardly distributed defending force.  Basically, there's no singular objective for them to go after, and they don't seem cognizant of the fact that they're wasting weaponry blowing up apartment buildings versus using intel to locate key military targets, coordinate an attack, and then walk all over the objective using their superior firepower.  They've managed to kill a lot of civilians, armed or otherwise, in what amounts to static positions, but have not demonstrated any sort of competence at combined arms maneuver warfare (using all branches of the military to take objectives using coordinated attacks).  I've been less and less impressed with the Russian military as time marches on, meaning from WWII to the present day.

They can certainly murder a bunch of unarmed civilians with missiles, but seem to be a greater threat to themselves than to NATO.  If Russia's Army attacked America, then our Air Force wouldn't have any targets worth wasting guided munitions on in less than two weeks.

2. Drones are most effective against fixed targets or specific mobile targets previously identified as hostile.  When both sides are using the same tanks / artillery / small arms, positive target identification is critical.  Drone operators can easily fire at friendly positions, as America learned in Afghanistan.  With good communications, this can be minimized, but that seems to be a step beyond what Russia's Air Force has demonstrated thus far.

3. No military on planet Earth has 100,000 armored vehicles of any description.  Why spend the money on 100,000 anti-tank missiles when 10,000 is greater than the total number of Russian armored vehicles?  .50 caliber rifles can immobilize or outright destroy any unarmored vehicle.  Ever hear of "economy of force"?  Each Javelin and Stinger missile costs as much as a house.

4. Taiwan is an island fortress, but Chinese air power would be used for defeating Taiwanese air defenses, precision strikes on power plants / airfields / POL farms / communications bunkers / etc, and then they would use lower cost cannons / rockets / iron bombs against vehicles, same as the Russians are doing right now.

5. Distributing weapons and training operators are likely Ukraine's greatest hurdles to fighting an insurgency against Russia, because the logistics were the greatest problem for the Taliban in Afghanistan, back when the US was backing them in their fight against Soviet occupation.

6. If there was a coordinated support plan for Ukraine, then they probably wouldn't broadcast it to civilians (our media would do something that asinine, because they're evil), because then the Russians would have the information required to defeat it.  Apart from direct military involvement, which would only serve to escalate the war, I'm pretty sure NATO isn't holding anything back.  They're shipping everything they can, but again, logistics is now the greatest issue.

7. Nobody actually knows what Putin's mental state is like, they're just hurling angry epithets at him and assigning their own beliefs about him, to him.  I think he's simply growing impatient, regarding reconstituting the Soviet Union.  He said that was his objective, and from my standpoint, it looks like he's trying to do exactly what he said he wanted to do.  It could be senility, although that seems unlikely, or maybe he received bad news from his doctor, like a terminal medical condition, and he's lashing out.

Peter Zeihan said there was a brief window of opportunity for Russia to reclaim independent territories, and it appears as though Putin really wants ye olde Soviet Union back.  There are lots of people in Russia and elsewhere who share his desire.  Their demography problem is very real, though.  Russia's rate of conscripting / enlisting / otherwise using military age men is more than double that of virtually every other country.  Germany had the same problem during WWII, but to a much greater degree.  Anyone who is in the military is taking / using, rather than producing.  Sooner rather than later, you run out of production capacity, and then your military must shrink or it becomes ineffective.

I guess we'll see what happens, but it's not looking good for Russia at the moment, and in the mid to long term Putin's military ambitions are beyond Russia's production capabilities.  The only event that would change that calculus is if a good number of eastern European countries voluntarily join Russia, which seems even more unlikely after they attacked Ukraine, a country that was basically a "blood brother" of Russia.

Finally, there have been neo-nazis in virtually every European country since the nazis came along, but they're very limited in number as compared to communists and socialists, and nowhere near as well-organized.  Fascism only appeals to extreme authoritarians, whereas the "bill of goods" sold to communists is generally more palatable, if equally false and self-destructive.  In the beginning, many of Hitler's nazis were actually communists, and that's how his propagandists sold nazism to the rank-and-file German- "a very different kind of socialist," as Hitler said.  Anyway, I think Russia is a lost cause.  We tried to show them a better way, but they either don't want it or refuse to learn.

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#74 2022-03-07 03:53:40

Terraformer
Member
From: Ceres
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 3,800
Website

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

7. Putin is clearly mentally unbalanced - I said this long before the invasion.  He now appears to be pretty much psychotic.

Harold Malmgren (fromer Presidential advisor and Ambassador) says Moscow sources have it that Putin is seriously ill and on heavy steroids.. Which given his age isn't an unlikely possibility. If it's affecting his mental state... well, we may be in the position of having the two largest nuclear powers led by people who aren't all there mentally (and I'm not so confident about Boris Johnson either).


"I'm gonna die surrounded by the biggest idiots in the galaxy." - If this forum was a Mars Colony

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#75 2022-03-07 22:30:54

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,750

Re: Putin's Russian expanding to be the old USSR

Since the meaning of a seice fire and civilians seem to not matter to the Russians that are bombing and killing them maybe the Ukrainians should return the favor and bomb behind the lines of the invaders and cut off the rest of there supply lines.
12th day of Russia's attack on Ukraine seemingly stuck Russian convoy hides mysteries makeshift roadblocks have been installed throughout this capital to impede the movements of Russian troops snaking toward the city in a convoy about 15 miles away.
Ukraine claimed its forces have destroyed 30 Russian helicopters in an attack on an airfield near the occupied southern city of Kherson.

Seems this has been a wake up call European Union agreed Monday to consider requests to join the bloc by Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova, European neighbors of Russia, amid Moscow's recent invasion of Ukraine

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