Thermal Energy Storage

SpaceNut · 2024-04-20 14:07:47

Even older as its from Two MIT graduate students in civil and environmental engineering have won a 2006 grant for Lesotho solar generator

Initially incubated in MIT's D-Lab class taught by Amy Smith, an instructor in the Edgerton Center, the MIT solar micro-generator won numerous awards before receiving the World Bank grant. The micro-generator team -- known as the Solar Turbine Group -- has already worked in Lesotho with BBCDC and local engineering students. Mueller, who joined the team this year, went to Lesotho in January with Orosz and team member Perry Hung, a sophomore in electrical engineering and computer science. Mueller and Orosz will return there for nine months in September, with team member Elizabeth Wayman (S.M. '06). Their advisor, Harold Hemond, the William E. Leonhard Professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering, provided "insightful suggestions along the way and trusted us to strike the right balance between our graduate research and our commitment to making this project a reality,

How To Build a Solar Generator, Affordable solar power using auto parts could make this electricity source far more available 2014, STG Lesotho became the first African firm to export solar technology (designed and built in Lesotho) to customers in Europe and India.

Matt Orosz’s mission for the last 20 years MIT alumni-founded OnePower is building minigrids to power villages across the small, mountainous country.

Scale-Ups Fellow: Matthew Orosz & STG International Micro-grid power stations for rural electrification

SMALL SCALE SOLAR ORC SYSTEM FOR DISTRIBUTED POWER

[url=https://web.mit.edu/hemond/www/docs/performance_design_optimization.pdf]Performance and design optimization of a low-cost solar
organic Rankine cycle for remote power generation[/url]

Here is a site that I was on when it was a yahoo group
https://diysolarforum.com/forums/solar- … ystems.11/

The last piece to the trough tracking might be in this
Solar Tracking System Using a Refrigerant as Working Medium for Solar Energy Conversion

Calliban · 2024-04-22 04:46:13

Here is a descriotion of NET Power's Allam Cycle, used at their Texas prototype facility. Not identical to the cycle that we need for TES, but close.
https://netpower.com/

One obvious difference is the need for a closed cycle for a TES power cycle. The Allam is an open cycle, with cold compressed CO2 either sold or injected into the ground. They can do that because natural gas combustion is continuously generating more CO2. But for a generator attached to a thermal energy store, we obviously need a closed cycle.

To get high efficiency from the S-CO2, we also need a high and low pressure turbine with a reheat between the two. The output from the LP turbine should pass through a recuperator. This preheats the CO2 after compressing it, but before it enters the primary - secondary side heat exchanger. This recovers heat from the exhausted CO2, before it enters the precooler ahead of recompression. The precooler is the main heat sink. It will generate the warm water that we will be using for district heating.

To minimise compression energy costs, we want the CO2 to be as cold as possible prior to entering the compressor. We can achieve this using a counterflow heat exchanger. This captures all the heat in the CO2 so that it exits the precooler at a temperature almost exactly the same as the entry temperature of the input cooling water. We could further reduce the energy needed for compression, by putting a second precooler into the circuit. This would cool the CO2 to 0°C. This would be another form of thermal energy storage. When grid electricity is abundant, we use a heat pump to store thermal energy in ice, which is then recovered by boosting the efficiency of the power cycle.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-04-22 05:19:18)

SpaceNut · 2024-04-22 16:43:29

The world’s first CO2 battery for long-duration energy storage is being commercialized

Energy-Dome-CO2-Battery-Demo-02-1.jpg?w=1500&quality=82&strip=all&ssl=1

https://energydome.com/

Calliban · 2024-04-23 03:58:38

Spacenut, thanks for sharing the link to this interesting new project.

This is a form of compressed gas energy storage, using CO2 instead of air. The advantage here is that CO2 can be liquefied at room temperature under enough pressure. This allows a much greater mass of compressed gas to be stored in a pressure vessel of any given size. Given that pressure vessels are expensive, this approach will save capital cost compared to compressed air energy storage. Unlike CAES, compressed CO2 can be affordably contained in steel vessels. This allows it to be built anywhere, without consideration of local geology. The downside is that a large container is needed to capture exhausted CO2, which is the inflatable structure in the image you shared. But whilst this is bulky, it can be quite cheap as it is a non-pressurised polymer membrane. The old telescopic gasometer tanks are also an option to consider in catching the exhaust gas.

Compressed CO2 energy storage could (and probably would) be integrated with thermal energy storage. As liquid CO2 evaporates, it absorbs a great deal of heat due to latent heat of phase change. This heat could be provided by ambient heat, or it could be heat that is stored from compression. Likewise, when CO2 gas is recompressed, compressor work can be reduced by chilling the CO2 that enters the compressor. This could be done by storing cold in an ice tank.

Ultimately the size of the expansion tank limits this technology to providing short term energy storage. But it could still be very valuable as a replacement for batteries in frequency control applications. It is also easier to scale down than the molten salt heat storage technologies that we have discussed on this board. CO2 gas energy storage is something that could work on a small scale, maybe even for offgrid application. Molten salt is clearly only suitable in large scale applications.

On Mars compressed CO2 energy storage would not need inflatable ehaust gas stores, as the atmosphere is made of CO2. However, the CO2 on Mars is so diffuse that compressors would suffer high frictional pumping losses per unit of CO2 compressed. This suggests to me that axial steady flow devices will be needed.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-04-23 04:17:41)

Calliban · 2024-04-23 04:36:33

Butane has useful properties as a working fluid in thermal energy storage systems. It could be used in a rankine cycle.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gas- … d_161.html

At 1bar, it boils at 0°C and critical temperature is 152°C. It also has high molar mass (58g/mol) allowing for compact power cycle machinery. A simple TES system could use a heat pump, storing heat in hot water and cold within an ice tank. The butane would boil within a heat exchanger, through which hot water is pumped. It would liquefy in a condenser, that is cooled with brine circulating through the ice tank.

This a simple cycle that should be easy to build. The downside is that butane is flammable, so the equipment needs to be well sealed to prevent leaks.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-04-23 04:40:07)

tahanson43206 · 2024-04-23 06:34:32

For Calliban re #205

Thank you for finding and posting the link about use of butane as a working fluid.

A manufacturer of such a system on Mars would need to procure hydrogen to make butane in a process discussed elsewhere in the forum, along with carbon from the atmosphere, but once made and stored in the system it should remain usable for many Mars years.

My question in this post is about the best method of capturing the weak Solar energy arriving at the surface of Mars. kbd512 has advocated solar trough energy capture, and as I read your post, I get the impression a solar trough system might be a suitable companion for the energy storage system you described.

Energy might be collected during the day and pulled from storage during the night, so that the energy flow to the habitat would be evened out.

There would be significant embedded energy invested in such a system, but it might last for an extended period.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2024-04-23 17:20:37

The working fluid is a number of types, but each is dependent on the temperature range that the collector will see over a period of time including when the fluid does not move.

There are tables of these in many of the above links that I posted above.

I am still looking at many of the combinations of pumps, expanders, collector types as well as surface sizes, how to collect the heat into water or sand battery which depends on the temperatures that come out of the expander turbine that turns the generator which will make the power. even after the that is transferred, I may still have more heat for hot water or to bring it to the well for additional cooling so that the fluid is compressed and ready for the next cycle.
I have a generator that the head for creating the power and invertor that could be coupled to the expander shaft and that would make a complete system.

tahanson43206 · 2024-04-23 18:51:58

For SpaceNut .... did you look at the link Calliban provided?

I get the impression you did not, but instead told everyone there "are tables" in links you already posted.

The link Calliban provided may help you to decide which fluid is best for your location and conditions.

If you never make a decision, you'll never have a system.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2024-04-24 18:27:39

Actually, the engineering site post #205 does not have some of the other fluids but what is there does give more than just trade names to aid in the decision making.

Calliban · 2024-04-26 04:38:51

Interesting video on a large heat pump, supplying a district heating network for a Danish city.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-bIlAkTDw8Q

This example uses harbour water as its heat source. Ultimately, all European cities will need district heat networks if they want to stay warm. Seawater is a more practical heat source than the ground, as it remains in a narrow temperature range year round and can be pumped.

Void · 2024-04-26 11:08:28

Calliban,

I watched the video, that you linked in the last post.

As it happens I ran into another waver power notion on a video: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets … i-BB1jbB2b Quote:

Cheddar News
1mo
Turning Ocean Waves Into Clean Energy
Inna Braverman, co-founder of Eco Wave Power, shares how her company’s tech works, plus the role governments should play in adopting clean energy.

https://solarimpulse.com/solutions-expl … wave-power
Quote:

https://solarimpulse.com/files/solution … wSEAN.webp

What occurred to me is that floats could also be heat exchangers.
In this case they seem to be generating electricity which could power a heat pump. But their wave power floats might also be used as heat exchangers.

It may even be possible that a mechanical process would not have a major electrical component, but of course that is to deviate into the unknown for practicality.

Where there is no sea ice it may be that this would be useful for many things. Perhaps cooling in some locations. And I visualize other processes such as OTEC and condensation towers perhaps being associated to it.

Cold water may flow off of the wave power heat exchangers downward and might be tapped, to cool condensation devices that pull water out of the sea air.

https://interestingengineering.com/scie … por-oceans
Quote:

We might finally harness the limitless fresh water vapor hidden above the oceans
“Oceanic vapor flux will only increase over time.”

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/ … .2019.0440
Image Quote:

The possibility may exist to export fresh water to those in needs, by aqueducts and pipelines. While places like Spain and Morocco, might do a similar thing, they do not need as much heating and so may not have as much waste cooled sea water.

It's an idea, I don't guarantee that it is a good one. It is perhaps a maybe.

It does not appear that sea ice will cause you trouble in the UK: https://usicecenter.gov/PressRelease/Ar … kilometers.
Image Quote:

Supposing that undersea pipelines can be economic, then also for North America, fresh water could be generated to heat northern coasts, and the water sent south.

Maybe.

Done.

What about thermal storage under the sea? (Hot or Cold) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_st … _North_Sea
You might be able to stuff some heat into those in the warmer seasons. But perhaps not practical.
Image Quote: Quote:

Carbon storage in the North Sea (also known as carbon sequestration in the North Sea) includes programmes being run by several Northern European countries to capture carbon (in the form of carbon dioxide, CO2), and store it under the North Sea in either old oil and gas workings, or within saline aquifers.

I have distant thoughts about an OTEC sort of thing with that but as said above maybe not the low hanging fruit.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-04-26 11:42:40)

SpaceNut · 2024-04-28 15:27:17

How Fluid Thermal Equipment Can Improve Energy Efficiency in Buildings

Calliban · 2024-04-29 06:38:54

Vacuum insulated thermal storage.
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio … al_Storage

I have not read this yet. I will post a synopsis when I have. It is certainly an interesting idea. Steel vacuum tanks are relatively expensive because of the problem of buckling instability. Concrete tanks are far more affordable and can be built to almost arbitrary size. A thermal mass contained in a vacuum tank would only lose energy by conduction and radiation. Polished aluminium surfaces can reflect most radiated heat. So a vacuum insulated thermal mass could be used to store energy for a long time. This would seem to me to be a good option for interseasonal energy storage. This is one of the few ideas that might work.

A concrete vacuum tank some 100m in diameter wouod have a minimum thickness of 0.25m, which is tad under 1'. We would probably built these tanks with multiple cross-braced layers to make them stable against buckling. The easiest way would be to cast hollow hexagonal blocks that are then fitted together with cement. The inner surface would then be clad with aluminium coated rockwool slabs. Within the vessel would be a spherical steel shell, containing a mixture of rock, sand and compacted clay. This would be heated to temperatures of ~600°C. The whole assembly would sit of a steel sheet, mounted onto a layer of vermiculite, which in turn transfers load to a concrete foundation. Beneath the steel sheet would sit cooling tubes containing sodium nitrate, which would transfer heat to an S-CO2 power generation loop.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-04-29 06:56:20)

NewMarsMember · 2024-04-29 07:22:17

tahanson43206 wrote:

For SpaceNut ... there was not a pre-existing topic containing these three words.
This topic is offered for those who might wish to have a consolidated repository for posts about a variety of thermal energy storage concepts.
Over recent times, members have contributed posts about interesting thermal energy storage methods that may well turn out to be worth considering for Mars (as well as the Earth).
This topic will (hopefully) attract updates about various concepts.
Update 2024/04/18 ... Index to posted contributed by NewMars members:
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 75#p221975
Post by kbd512 ... this is a long detailed project plan
Update 2024/04/29 ... Calliban re vacuum storage of thermal energy:
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 79#p222479

(th)

SpaceNut · 2024-04-29 17:31:21

The search requires the word "and" in between the words plus in the correct order or it will not find it.

The plan of KBD512 is for powering a cities grid and more.

My post 199 is much smaller as it could provide for 1 or 2 homes energy.

I have been learning about sizing of each component for the ability to create power from this method.

I am planning to use sand due to climate to bring that heat into storage in an insulated chamber.
But then again, I can use. glycol as well.

tahanson43206 · 2024-04-29 18:06:01

For SpaceNut re #215

Your message seems to imply you are thinking of using sand as the thermal storage mass, and glycol as the liquid to move through pipes to transport thermal energy from the sand storage to a machine for generating electricity.

Please write a project plan for the system you want to install.

The most practical way for you to load the sand with thermal energy is to draw power from the grid while it is running, and to draw thermal energy from the sand when you lose utility power. You'll need a combination of equipment to generate electricity to run the system, and to light the home, and a separate circuit of hot liquid to heat the home. The idea of trying to collect wind in New Hampshire seems unlikely (to me at least) and you've shown us that the trees would prevent solar power collection in the quantities needed to load the sand store.

Please write a project plan that allows you to store enough energy to keep the house warm for a week. Let's see what your plan looks like.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2024-04-29 18:16:16

I am also looking at the freon interface in the collector parabolic unit. The expander would see freon heat pressure that would be coupled to an alternator or generator or maybe an axial flux motor but after the exit it would then go to the sand for retention as storage heat. once it snakes through and drops in heat it would then go through another cooling maybe to a glycol loop to heat water for hot water. The it's got to be condensed and liquified so that it can boil once more in the collector.
The 25% efficiency to create electrical means I need at an output of 10kw suggests 40kw of solar surface is used in the collector..

tahanson43206 · 2024-04-29 18:42:48

For SpaceNut re #217

Are you at all serious about this, or is it all fantasy imaginings?

There's noting wrong with fantasy! There is a huge market for fantasy ... there are literally billions of human beings who make that market churn.

If you are at all serous about a thermal energy storage facility for your New Hampshire location, depending upon renewable energy to top if off seems to me like a less than optimum allocation of your budget. You have Calliban and kbd512 to help you size a thermal store, once you get serious about heating and lighting your home for a week in the dead of winter.

The question of which liquid to use seems fairly far down the list of issues to address.

The power you want to supply to the home for a week, and the temperature you want to maintain, are the drivers.

Start with firm figures for those two quantities, and kbd512 and Calliban can fill in all the rest of the variables.

You'll need to take out a mortgage to make this investment, so a system that will last 30 years is a good place to start.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2024-04-29 19:05:27

The several working fluids for each part of the system are low in priority to what are the ranges of temperature and devices that can handle these. As well as the finding of low-cost devices to make use of in each portion of the system. I intend to have it as a hybrid system with a wood thermal heating source to create power from as well for when solar is not happening. Usually this means that wind will as well as some rain or water run off can be made from as well.

I already have sand for the storage vault for the heat need to make a below ground storage that is insulated, of possible concrete chamber formed walls.

Things that I have not are the compressor but looking, need to find the expander that will be in the pressure range of the working fluids. Other pumps for the other fluids are more readily avaiable.

What I can not afford needs to be built by hand or salvaged from where they can be found.

Some of the pressures if to hot will require tubing that can take the stresses that they will see while other sections of the design can use copper tubine and even pex plastic tubing.

here is an example of the design that could be created.
1-s2.0-S2215098621001579-gr1.jpg

the heat/ evaporator is the solar concentrate trough collector location. It is also where the sand storage gets coupled as it would send heat to the accumaltor or expansion tank. The condenser is a lower level of heat but its still really hot to capture.

SpaceNut · Yesterday 16:24:30

For your consideration:

[8' x 8' x 2' = 128 cubic feet = 4.74 cubic yards
1 cubic yard of dry sand weighs 2619 pounds. So you are talking about 12,416 pounds of sand. (4.74 x 2619 = 12,414)
The specific heat of sand is 830.
The specific heat of water is 4182.
So a pound of sand will hold about 20 percent what a pound of water will hold. (830/4182 = .198 = 19.8%)
A btu is defined as the amount of energy required to raise 1 pound of water 1 degree Fahrenheit. This tells us that to store one btu of heat, you would need to raise 5 pounds of sand by 1 degree Fahrenheit.
So, for each degree that you raise your 12,414 pounds of sand, you will be storing 2483 btus. (12,414/5 = 2483)
A single gallon of propane contains 91,500 btus. So, you would need to raise the temperature of your box of sand by 36 degrees to store the equivalent heat energy contained in a gallon of propane.

SpaceNut · Today 08:18:18

Here is the electrical to heat Heater Room Size Calculator: What Size Room a Heater Heat?

Seems that a 1,500 BTU Heater Room Size: 50 sq. ft. or 1,500 Watt Heater Room Size: 150 sq. ft. by changing the units in the calculator.

so, at 40kwhr /24 hrs = 1 2/3 kw for 800 sq ft. with a heat pump 30,000 to 36,000 BTU = 3 ton heat pump to heat my home.

tahanson43206 · Today 08:33:25

For SpaceNut ....

As a related observation .... A heat store can have more than one set of coils ... You have shown us images with coils below ground that are connected to a heat pump system. I'd like to point out that there is no need to limit the number of coils in that store to just one. A second set of coils can be fed by renewable energy sources, such as wind, solar or wave if you are near an ocean.

Tides might even be enlisted. Water can fill a tank if the home owner is near a shore where tides occur, and the water can be allowed to drain through a small turbine when the tide is out. I would imagine there must be somewhere on the planet that someone is using that simple gravity device.

I'll look to see if we have a topic for tide power generation.

(th)

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