Starship is Go...

SpaceNut · 2025-09-04 15:18:17

The tile material sure did not standup to the entry but a shuttle tile system would require lots more prep time. The transpiring would mean thicker metals to widthstand the boiling pressure between the layers that would hold the water or other working fluids.

GW Johnson · Yesterday 10:01:45

Does anyone outside SpaceX really know what those so-called "metallic tiles" really are? I have not heard, myself.

They would appear to have worked well enough on Flight 10. And fewer tiles seem to have been lost on Flight 10, although that judgement is affected by the better camera coverage on Flight 10. I think the tiles on Flights 4, 5, and 6 were some kind of ceramic. But details like that were rarely given out.

Those are the four (flights 4, 5, 6, and 10) that have actually made it back through entry, descent, and landing. Flights 1, 2, and 3 were destroyed before ever reaching space. Flights 7, 8, and 9 were destroyed because they were tumbling out of control when they entered.

The worrisome thing from Flight 10 was the sudden creation of a hole in the engine bay skirt, in a process that appeared to be explosive, to the camera. Nobody yet seems to know what that was. It is the unknowns like that, which are the most worrisome things.

GW

SpaceNut · Yesterday 15:13:30

AI Overview
The Bestagons: Starship's Upgraded Heat Shield
Starship currently uses black, hexagonal ceramic heat shield tiles, likely a derivative of the TUFROC material, mounted on a stainless steel hull, to protect it from re-entry temperatures. For the future, SpaceX is exploring a metallic heat shield technology that utilizes the spacecraft's liquid methane to perform film cooling.
Current Ceramic Tiles
Composition: The tiles are made of a toughened, porous, fibrous ceramic material, possibly a version of the TUFROC (Toughened Unipiece Fibrous Reusable Oxidation-Resistant Ceramic) used on other spacecraft.
Color: They are black to help radiate heat away from the vehicle more quickly.
Structure: The tiles are mounted directly onto Starship's stainless steel body.
Function: They are designed to withstand the extreme temperatures of atmospheric re-entry and can be reused for multiple missions.
Future Metallic Heat Shield
Concept:
SpaceX is developing and experimenting with a metallic heat shield system.
Mechanism:
This system incorporates tiny holes in the metallic plates. During re-entry, the liquid fuel (water or methane) seeps through these holes, creating a film that carries away heat and prevents the underlying metal from melting.
Advantages:
Metallic shields offer greater durability, are easier to manufacture in larger sections, and are simpler to repair or replace than ceramic tiles.
Material:
While experimental, the material used for this project is expected to be a heat-resistant alloy or stainless steel.

AI Overview
Starship SN9's Heatshield : r/SpaceXLounge
Starship's metal tiles are composed of SpaceX's proprietary "30X" stainless steel alloy, an evolution from commercially available 301 and 304L grades, featuring custom refinements with potentially higher chromium content for improved corrosion resistance and strength. This proprietary alloy was developed in-house to overcome limitations of previous materials, and while its exact composition is undisclosed, it is an austenitic stainless steel tailored for the extreme conditions of spaceflight.
Evolution of Starship's Materials
Early stages:
Initially, Starship used commercially available stainless steel alloys, such as 301 and 304L.
Transition to proprietary alloy:
SpaceX eventually transitioned to a custom alloy, internally designated "30X," for the vehicle's construction.
Current material:
The current standard for Starship and the Super Heavy booster is this proprietary stainless steel.
Characteristics of the "30X" Alloy
Proprietary development: The "30X" alloy is a custom formulation developed by SpaceX.
Enhanced performance: It incorporates custom refinements and potentially higher chromium content than standard grades, leading to increased resistance to corrosion and degradation.
High-strength properties: The material is an austenitic stainless steel designed to withstand the harsh conditions of space launch and re-entry.
Why Stainless Steel for Starship?
Cost-effectiveness:
Stainless steel is relatively inexpensive compared to other high-strength materials like titanium.
Machinability:
It is easier to machine and work with, which is crucial for constructing large structures like Starship.
Cryogenic strength:
Stainless steel maintains its strength at cryogenic temperatures, essential for spaceflight operations.
Resilience:
The alloy's ability to form a protective oxide layer prevents corrosion and degradation, even after multiple missions

SpaceNut · Yesterday 17:10:27

Based on recent SpaceX flights, the white residue on Starship's nose cone after reentry is from ablative insulation material that became exposed to the high heat of atmospheric entry. This occurred in areas where SpaceX deliberately removed some of the protective tiles for testing.
For example, after a late August 2025 flight, SpaceX CEO Elon Musk confirmed that the discoloration was the result of a thermal protection system experiment.
The purpose of the experiment
Testing different heat shield designs: SpaceX has been experimenting with various thermal protection configurations. On recent flights, the company has intentionally removed some of Starship's heat shield tiles to test different materials, including metallic tiles, and to see if other systems can compensate for missing tiles.
Exposing the insulation: In the areas where the tiles were removed, the underlying white ablative insulation was directly exposed to the high-temperature plasma of reentry.
Creating a white vapor deposit: The extreme heat caused some of this insulation material to vaporize. This vapor then re-condensed as a white coating on the cooler sections of the nose cone.
A different kind of test
The ablative insulation that appeared white after reentry is a departure from the polished steel Starship prototypes. For certain operational versions, like the Human Landing System (HLS) for the moon, a white thermal coat will be used. This is done to reflect sunlight and help with temperature regulation while in space. However, the post-reentry white residue is a byproduct of a specific experimental process, not the intended final coloration

AI Overview
Starship turned orange after re-entry due to experimental metallic heat shield tiles that oxidized, forming iron oxide. This orange color is a result of these metallic test tiles reacting with atomic oxygen in the atmosphere at high speeds, while white patches were from deliberately removed tiles exposing white insulation. This discoloration indicates the success of these new metallic tiles and insulation testing during Flight 10, with Elon Musk confirming the phenomenon was intended to observe these materials.
Details of the Orange Coloration
Metallic Test Tiles:
The primary cause of the orange coloration was the use of experimental metallic heat shield tiles on the flight.
Oxidation:
These metallic tiles, likely stainless steel, oxidized rapidly during re-entry at Mach 25, reacting with the atmospheric oxygen to form a distinct orange, iron oxide layer.
Intended Experiment:
SpaceX deliberately placed these metallic tiles in specific areas and intentionally removed some ceramic tiles to expose the underlying insulation.
White Areas and Insulation
Deliberate Removal:
The white areas seen on Starship are from areas where the standard ceramic heat shield tiles were intentionally removed to test the white insulation beneath.
White Insulation:
This insulation, made of heat-resistant composites, was designed to withstand re-entry temperatures and reflect heat. Unlike the metallic tiles, it did not contain easily oxidizable metals, causing it to retain its white color.
Significance of the Event
Testing and Reusability:
The orange discoloration is not a sign of failure; rather, it's a visual indication of SpaceX's ongoing material science experiments to develop and test new thermal protection systems for future Starship missions, aiming for increased reusability.
Confirmation of Success:
Elon Musk confirmed that the heat shield tiles largely stayed attached, suggesting the latest upgrades are performing well, despite the unusual colors.

SpaceNut · Yesterday 17:11:15

539868878_122125867106902353_2716297374905034060_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s720x720_tt6&_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=Bm8y_97QLsEQ7kNvwFdsg6N&_nc_oc=AdnwdVqU8tI7d4JS6CsFd7dHqhhc8v8PbBC0dySuN_JBgcDuhnRjk1BrmyLArxPNbhYx_ADcRv62nJTVo_BjbiG8&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-bos5-1.xx&_nc_gid=kM5_W7bumP0nZ2fWlgYZpQ&oh=00_Afb87D8VY7QhXtG3Fbp8exnb8w4RQRALTwhm6XoPy535og&oe=68BE9350

kbd512 · Yesterday 20:02:22

Hypersonic Materials and Structures

All those new materials and fabrication methods under T&E 10 years ago are now fairly standard for reentry TPS. Starship could be using any of those new TPS materials, most likely some combination of them.

RGClark · Yesterday 23:43:50

SpaceX spent billions developing Starship version V1 getting a rocket 10 times the size of the Falcon 9 and it wound up having less payload than the Falcon 9.

GzY0wZLa4Ak5K57?format=jpg&name=large

Bob Clark

Void · Today 00:46:09

Well, I am not sure I understand your intention, but...

Isn't that like saying VOID is no good because in grade school, he was unable to hold a full-time job?

But so, far my impression is that SpaceX has self-funded, by providing value and attracting investors. Yes, they have gotten some grants from the government, but have also provided support for National Security, and so then also provided protection for NATO, and ultimately the E.U.

Reptiles may on occasion eat their young. But the higher the life form, supposing that humans are rather high, then the more resources are invested in childhood for a higher quality result.

The probable offshoots from Starship when it grows up will be enormous, and Europe will benefit from it as well.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (Today 00:52:05)

GW Johnson · Today 12:10:06

Beware the AI-generated results. It is confusing the hull construction materials with the heatshield materials.

All I know for sure is that earlier flights used some sort of ceramic tiles, probably resembling the outer layer of a Tufroc tile. The stainless steel hull can accept a higher temperature from the inward conduction through the denser ceramic, while the aluminum hull of X-37B could not; that's why the Tufroc tiles on the nose and leading edges of X-37B were two-layer, with a lower density underlayer. The denser outer ceramic can take a higher temperature, so they make it black to radiate away heat efficiently.

Somewhere along the line the last few flights, SpaceX has transitioned to what Musk termed a "metallic tile", whatever that really means. It's still put on the hull as tiles, you can see the joints. But I have no clue what they are actually made of, or how. Neither does anyone else outside SpaceX, near as I can tell. And the AI's certainly do not know. They don't even comprehend the question properly.

As for whether this was all worth it, 4 out of 10 mission successes all the way through reentry, and 7 out of 10 partial successes that made it into space at all, is actually a pretty damned good track record for a development flight test program of an advanced vehicle design that really pushes the state of the art rather hard. Complaining about low payload masses out of rapidly-evolving still-highly-experimental vehicles strikes me as grasping at straws for something to complain about!

I think they did really good on Flight 10, and pretty good all through the testing, even with the spectacular failures. The early histories of Atlas, Titan, Juno, Jupiter, Thor, and several others was actually rather similar. It's just what happens when you push the state of the art hard, with experimental flight testing the only real way to get credible results.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (Today 12:22:08)

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#2176 2025-09-04 15:18:17

Re: Starship is Go...

#2177 Yesterday 10:01:45

Re: Starship is Go...

#2178 Yesterday 15:13:30

Re: Starship is Go...

#2179 Yesterday 17:10:27

Re: Starship is Go...

#2180 Yesterday 17:11:15

Re: Starship is Go...

#2181 Yesterday 20:02:22

Re: Starship is Go...

#2182 Yesterday 23:43:50

Re: Starship is Go...

#2183 Today 00:46:09

Re: Starship is Go...

#2184 Today 12:10:06

Re: Starship is Go...

Board footer