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Its also about the sale of alcohol. After Saddam fell, Christian liquor store owners have been shot.
Conflict? Most likely.
Between nations? Depends on whether http://www.alamut.com/subj/economics/mi … .html]this book is correct.
World politics is entering a new phase, and intellectuals have not hesitated to proliferate visions of what it will be--the end of history, the return of traditional rivalries between nation states, and the decline of the nation state from the conflicting pulls of tribalism and globalism, among others. Each of these visions catches aspects of the emerging reality. Yet they all miss a crucial, indeed a central, aspect of what global politics is likely to be in the coming years.
It is my hypothesis that the fundamental source of conflict in this new world will not be primarily ideological or primarily economic. The great divisions among humankind and the dominating source of conflict will be cultural. Nation states will remain the most powerful actors in world affairs, but the principal conflicts of global politics will occur between nations and groups of different civilizations. The clash of civilizations will dominate global politics. The fault lines between civilizations will be the battle lines of the future.
By the way, China is both a nation and a civilization.
More:
Civilization identity will be increasingly important in the future, and the world will be shaped in large measure by the interactions among seven or eight major civilizations. These include Western, Confucian, Japanese, Islamic, Hindu, Slavic-Orthodox, Latin American and possibly African civilization. The most important conflicts of the future will occur along the cultural fault lines separating these civilizations from one another.
Why will this be the case?
First, differences among civilizations are not only real; they are basic. Civilizations are differentiated from each other by history, language, culture, tradition and, most important, religion. The people of different civilizations have different views on the relations between God and man, the individual and the group, the citizen and the state, parents and children, husband and wife, as well as differing views of the relative importance of rights and responsibilities, liberty and authority, equality and hierarchy. These differences are the product of centuries. They will not soon disappear. They are far more fundamental than differences among political ideologies and political regimes. Differences do not necessarily mean conflict, and conflict does not necessarily, mean violence. Over the centuries, however, differences among civilizations have generated the most prolonged and the most violent conflicts.
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Why is bin Laden mad at the West? The perception of loose Western sexual mores is part of the equation.
Ask a traditional Muslim which is worse - - being ruled by Saddam or being forced to allow your daughter to wear a mini-skirt as she walks down the street?
Thanks to Bill Maher who raised this question on NPR earlier today.
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This was written 10 years ago:
Historically, the other great antagonistic interaction of Arab Islamic civilization has been with the pagan, animist, and now increasingly Christian black peoples to the south. In the past, this antagonism was epitomized in the image of Arab slave dealers and black slaves. It has been reflected in the on-going civil war in the Sudan between Arabs and blacks, the fighting in Chad between Libyan-supported insurgents and the government, the tensions between Orthodox Christians and Muslims in the Horn of Africa, and the political conflicts, recurring riots and communal violence between Muslims and Christians in Nigeria. The modernization of Africa and the spread of Christianity are likely to enhance the probability of violence along this fault line. Symptomatic of the intensification of this conflict was the Pope John Paul II's speech in Khartoum in February I993 attacking the actions of the Sudan's Islamist government against the Christian minority there.
Sudan is another front in the clash of civilizations and with an Islamic government could easily become another refuge for terrorists, like Afghanistan had been.
Folks, if there is ever any economic or strategic value to Mars, we had darn sure better get there before the Chinese do or we will be "in a world of hurt".
Morris, my prejudice or angle, played out on these boards over the past several years is my belief that the solar system is like a giant sterile petri dish awaiting "contamination" (if you will allow that word) of Terran life.
A seed population of humans, motivated, talented, well educated in engineering and equipped with both robust Closed Environment Life Support Systems (CELSS) and the ability to assimiliate resources harvested from "out there" into their CELSS modules would spark the greatest population explosion in all human history, if we take a view that extends across several centuries.
Frankly, to win the kind of conflict you describe Cobra, we in the US need to be able to absorb blows like 9/11 without reacting in a way that plays into the terrorist hands.
No we don't. We need a balance between swift and brutal action with clear provocation and enticement. We need to kill a few people and tempt the rest with the bounty of the West. Afghanistan fit perfectly with such an approach, Iraq was a bit of a stretch in that context but could have been spun.
Reading this, I'd say we agree.
By absorb, I mean the ability to sustain casualties without running around like a chicken that lost its head. American hysteria is counter-productive.
By absorb, I mean respond powerfully against the real enemy yet not stampede domestic fear into public support for doing things like reading library loan lists and outlawing model rockets. And imprisoning citizens for years on end just because Ashcroft cannot bring himself to file charges or release the guy.
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By absorb, I mean have a populace who understands the long term goals - - the Brits absorbed IRA bombings for years, decades. We are not the first country to be attacked by terror nor will we be the last.
To claim a unique global right to be secure, we actually weaken ourselves, IMHO, because we fuel resentment.
Russia has a spare ISS-Zarya. Add a Bigelow Transhab or 2 and more docking ports and deploy in lunar orbit.
A week at ISS then a week in lunar orbit. How about that for a vacation?
Unfortunately there is a greater problem, and it is the reason we'll never be able to fully implement the type of program I mentioned. As you say Bill, we can't let the majority of Muslims believe that we seek to supplant their culture, so we can't be entirely open about it amongst ourselves. It requires a tacit acceptance of the people to abide by a lie, we all know what's at stake but simply don't speak of it. Unfortunately, many won't get it, and will believe the lie but not for the duration. That is why we can't do it, as a nation we have a short attention span and no "poker face."
This month's Atlantic Monthly has a great piece by a fellow who bought a used laptop in Kabul Afghanistan and discovered files belonging to a top al Qaeda aide. Reading the essay, it seemed that 9/11 was launched to help rally the radical Islamicists to fight against the very sort of culture war campaign you say America should wage.
Also, if we are the wage the sort of war you say, our public leaders need to downplay things like 9/11 - - retaliate hard and VERY HARD but in secret if possible - - and persuade America that fighting terrorism is crime prevention, not war.
If its a war, who is the enemy? If its a war, how do we persuade the mullah in the street that all Islam isn't the enemy?
Frankly, to win the kind of conflict you describe Cobra, we in the US need to be able to absorb blows like 9/11 without reacting in a way that plays into the terrorist hands.
http://www.thespacereview.com/index.html]Link here - - many of the essays deserve their own thread.
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/199/1]Soyuz to the Moon
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/198/1]Book Review: New Moon Rising
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/197/1]The Veto Threat
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/196/1]Human Spaceflight is Inevitable
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/195/1]The Vision and National Survival
The SpaceReview - - Mandatory Monday morning reading.
IMHO, as always. :;):
What about domestic violence? A guy beats up his wife, gets divorced and later beats up his second wife.
Domestic violence would fall under the criminal courts, no? I'm not talking about criminal proceedings.
In Illinois, Orders of Protection can be filed as civil or criminal. Also, episodes of violence and intimidation are often part of child custody proceedings in circumstances where criminal prosecution never occurs.
Anyway, the Jack Ryan episode is blatantly ridiculous. Its not what he did, its what she says he asked to do (and he denies even saying it) - - at worst he was whacked for a fantasy.
But secrecy isn't the issue, its the "holier than thou" attitude of the Religious Right which drove Ryan off the ballot.
clark, sealed divorce files are a form of VIP treatment. Whether that is appropriate is a bigger question, yet why should famous or rich or potentially famous people get their files sealed while John and Jane Doe cannot?
One, those types of files should be sealed from public eyes (how does it serve the publics interest?), and two, if both parties to this private disolution of their relationship wish to keep it private, I see no compelling reason that their wishes should be violated.
Generally, I would agree, except see below.
Also since Jack Ryan was eaten by his own party he is hardly a poster-boy for the issue.
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What about domestic violence? A guy beats up his wife, gets divorced and later beats up his second wife.
The husband and the first wife say the records should remain sealed and then testify that this 2nd incident (or 22nd) is merely an isolated event, out of character?
Living in Illinois, I can say it appeared to me that Jack Ryan was eaten alive by other Republicans who feared that the divorce allegations would undermine a national "moralistic" campaign.
As far as I can tell, Obama agreed that nothing in those files had anything to do with the race itself.
clark, sealed divorce files are a form of VIP treatment. Whether that is appropriate is a bigger question, yet why should famous or rich or potentially famous people get their files sealed while John and Jane Doe cannot?
It is sad Jack Ryan withdrew for the reasons he did, however, the plans were in the works to pay big bucks on the same political hit man Saxby Chambliss used to discredit Max Cleland of Georgia to smear Barack Obama.
Now, if a no-hope nobody replaces Ryan, then to smear Obama in a non-competitive race will obviously be pure destructive politics, and expensive in a no win race.
Space and the symbolism of http://www.designobserver.com/archives/000122.html]font choice
Bill, do you know if this is one of the Jesuit schools you were referring to when you were commenting on Martian curricula?
In Chicago, the Catholic school system is very strong.
The abundant supply of suicide bombers seems to suggest many in the Islamic world do believe the West seeks to eradicate their culture.
In which case we have little to lose by actually attempting it. Smoothly, in a way that entices converts. Ways that don't directly smash the native culture but weave into the new and suppress its less desirable traits. A sort of "Japan option."
Since I would oppose such an undertaking and since I believe the West vs Islam is exactly what bin Laden is seeking, for the Administration to pursue such a course behind our backs and while making public denials of what our "real" goals are, America itself becomes divided against itself.
[Edit to clarify: How can we engage in a subtle and nuanced campaign unless our "enemy" first believes we do not seek their destruction? We cannot humiliate any Arabs if we seek to wage the conflict as you propose. Edit#2 - - IMHO bin Laden feared the exact cultural campaign you describe and choose terrorist attacks like 9/11 to goad the US into open conflict with Islam, thereby enhancing his argument that the West is truly against Islam. Western "over-reaction" makes the type of campaign Cobra describes less feasible.]
And. we cannot win a global war and fight a civil war at the same time.
In 1943 how many Americans would answer a poll saying they opposed the war? Without a 1943 kind of unity we cannot win the type of war you propose.
If you cannot win a race, don't enter.
In any event, for any Administration to undertake such a course of action without consensus within our own population is a profound corruption of American institutions.
It most certainly would be, but now we're kinda worrying about smoke detectors when the house is already on fire. And both sides of the aisle are throwing their share of matches. So on with the little isolated short-term goal wars. Ever on and on...
Two front wars are a bad idea. GOP vs gays and America vs bin Laden and Saddam and France/UN is a few bridges too far.
Now, Robert, add Proton to your list. ???
Isn't freedom of speach one of the values that we are trying to spread? If we go about this with a do as we say, not as we do approach, it won't work.
Absolutely. Unfortunately we are generally locked into thinking of it as a political or legal value and accepting that as enough. We cannot effectively graft such a concept into a society if its culture runs counter to it. That's what we're missing in our current efforts, focusing too much on changing political systems while giving only fleeting attention to cultural foundations. The two are separate but related factors, without a firm cultural base in which to grow a representative 'democracy' cannot endure. Cultural engineering takes more time than we seem willing to invest, dooming any attempt at long-term solutions.
The abundant supply of suicide bombers seems to suggest many in the Islamic world do believe the West seeks to eradicate their culture.
In any event, for any Administration to undertake such a course of action without consensus within our own population is a profound corruption of American institutions.
You can't command respect unless you are willing to give respect. Being the baddest motha' in the valley will get you feared but not respected.
Though as an aside, heresies die with the heretics if you get them all.
Not in the age of the internet and digital storage media.
Cobra, to do as you say may well destroy that we which to spread.
For in politics, as in religion, it is equally absurd to aim at making proselytes by fire and sword. Heresies in either can rarely be cured by persecution. Federalist #1
That's just it, there are different definitions of "win." I would argue that supplanting the culture of a significant part of the world with our own but losing direct military and political control is a win.
Our media is how we do this, not our soldiers.
In comparison with its enemies and in a sense deeper than political dominance, Rome won.
No, the Christian Church won by co-opting the Roman Empire.
The British Empire won. We can win too, if we choose to undertake that course.
We and Australia and Canada are the end-game of the British Empire. Whether we "win" determines whether the British Empire wins as you say.
Export English common law & the English language to Mars and I will agree with you.
We think of these matters in terms of governments, but cultures are far more influential, and they can be changed with time and concerted effort.
I agree with this sentence completely and its because I do that I am convinced GWB is screwing everything up to such an astonishing extent.
We want the world to imitate us, not fear us. Have them copy us but think it was all their idea all along.
ATV?
Maybe there is some confusion between me and someone else.
Oops, sorry, that was Mad Grad Student.
No problem.
I adopt enough unsupportable positions as it is.
ATV?
Maybe there is some confusion between me and someone else.
The road to global dominance must run through Moscow and Paris and Beijing. I do not believe America can win that conflict.
If you cannot win a race, don't enter.
Interesting link:
clark has a good point.
So long as we build missile defense rather than raising 40,000 more troops we cannot project imperial power without allies. Okay, now Bush cuts our ties to our allies and thus no imperial policy.
Double reverse back flip foreign policy.
Besides Bush '04 means Hillary '08. Cool!
Slow down missile defense. Don't stop it, slow it down.
Pay for 40,000 regular infantry and double the special forces.
Okay, I'm with you so far. Now to push the consensus to the breaking point I suspect.
Nah. Not today. I must choose my words carefully.
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Bill & Cobra, Twin Ceasars of America!