New Mars Forums

Dook,

I am not talking about the pityful budget of NASA to build the industrial and mining sectors in space. You need to look at the problem from a whole different level of resource requirements and the application of resources to build the infrastructure. I am talking about US$100 Billion budget per year funded primary by the Global Business Entities.

If you don't think it can't happen then you are limited by the words  ( can't, shouldn't couldn't won't don't  ) because It can happen and you need to work on a purely global level. First think that you have 6 billion customers what you can sell them all at $30 per month per year as a subscription - even if you only get 10% of the Market that equals 600 M x$30 = $18 billion x 12 = $ 216 Billion and Using US$100 Billion doesn't think impossible. Say it takes 15 years to build the infrastructure to make the money then from 2020 -2035 = 1.5Trillion dollars, that 30 years from now then another 20 years adds 2 trillion dollars more resources ( infrastructure, personnel, space assets, lunar assets , martian assets and more ) now we are 2055, the next 50 years you would generate another 5 Trillion Dollars from earth but doesn't count on the mining and industrial capacity in space that is developed from 2035 onwards to reduce the dependence of earth resources. 

These are the numbers that you need to work towards to build the work outside the earth and take humanity into space. Also Dook I can prove everything that I have typed and I know one product that could do this volume of monetary sales. 

I am currently working on a number of projects that income generating to build some of the necessary components for the infrastructure required for the global resource gathering for the expansion of space for humanity.

Also Dook, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek are futuristic and I am talking about the current level of technology and expansion of real hardware, and real desires for humanity in space.  You need to broaden your minds into understand of resource allocation on a planetary scale not a small country scale like USA or UK.

Secondly, You asked why I am here,

Because I believe that the next large population for each will be Mars but we need the infrastructure to get there and I agree with the idea to get to the moon and use it as a testing facility for humanity living permanently in space.  When we move to Mars we have a fully trained workforce for the planet and also technologies to work on low - G Worlds.

But I don't like the Explorer Missions planning only, I think they are first step - foothold phase but the beach head phase would be outposts up to 50+ personnel and that requires infrastructure backing from earth-lunar space. If we haven't got those goals then we are just tourists in space and I am not working on being a tourist but a participating member of the our solar system ( or can be called - the terran star system)

The colonization of space will rely on the development of mining and industrial sector in space. We first use some resources on earth to expand our foothold into near space ( LEO and Lunar surface) then we expand the human and robotic personnel in this region to create an industrial and mining sectors. Meanwhile, explorer and prospector missions are sent to Mars, Asteroid Belt and beyond.

Once we have established the foothold space industrial and mining sectors on the moon we expand by using these resources to expand towards Mars with large outposts in multiple locations.

Valuation of resources and assets will run into the trillions of dollars but that is a valuation not physical monetary resources. example : 200MT of Nickel asteroid at $1500 per tonne would value the single asteroid at 300 Billion Dollars. With a dozen similar size mining operations could have an asset value of trillions but the cost to mine, process and have a market to sell the resources are required as well. All these are part of a future space economy, not an extension of earth economy but separate an distinct marketplace expanding over many different bodies through our solar system.

" Collapse " a load of crap !!!!!!!!

The chinese economy has alot more stored productivity in it and haven't completed the remodelling phase of their economy. There is still at least 10-15 years of industrial development and growth ahead for the chinese economy the only issue is energy. But with the new contracts for LPG and Oil contracts it will meet the growth targets and hold the growth over the next few years just under 9% per year.

By 2008 when they have the summer olympics they might have a permanent presence in space with the purchase of docking systems from Russia. That will show to the chinese population that their country is growing and innovating and thus people will work more on improving the country's status in the world.

With the changes in the UN, china will have a larger role in world affairs, the changes in Alliance of South-East Asian Nation (ASEAN) and possible discussions with Tiawan and the large contracts with Australia for natural resources, China will have the power to expand into space and become a World Power in Space.

Darkstar,

It depends on the infrastructure in low earth orbit and on ground stations to build a large vessel for mars missions. We could assemble a ship from new components and recycling other ship components from other missions and engine assemblies as well. 

We could launch manned and unmanned vessels together in a convoy or fleet ( " The first martian fleet " ) that would bring all necessary supplies including vehicles for an outpost setup for martian surface. The fleet could be used and reused over and over again to make the voyage between earth and mars.

It comes down to planning !!!!!!!!!!

First and foremost the red tape in the United States and Any other government in the world is vast, but that is government. !!!!!!

Fledi, the rules for private industry space program are there under the outer space treaty and have been formulated by the United States, Australia, and many other countries through space industry legislation. If you follow the process, meet and continue to meet requirements and paid the annual government fees for a license to launch into space and conduct a space facilities, then yes you can have a private space program.

Privatisation of Space is a major goal and very important one to expand humanity in space and create a solar system based economy to pay for the huge costs to maintain and provide a return on expenditure. Also the population of non-earth population must increase into space upwards of 100,000 to start to build a viable economy until then we need to create primary trade with earth or earth related activities and projects.  This goal could be achieved within one century.

The major mining operations need development on an automated basis to take humans out of the process to extract ore from asteroids, and other extreme environment planets and moons. The centralized spac agency primary goal is co-ordination not development or launching that is country space agency, but the centralized agency aslo create the laws and control outside the world onbehalf of the whole world, not the country space agencies. Please won't accept the Russian laws in space or American laws in space or the chinese law in space then what about global human law in space.

The UN Will not disappear, but will undego a new transformation as the security council is going through right now. GCN the odds for the UN to disappear would be the same for the US government turn socialist, because the rest of the world wouldn't allow it to happen, and America wouldn't allow it to happen and lose control through deal making.

Secondly, No member state has the right to act outside the world unless it is within the governing outer space treaty enacted by the UN and voted on by the member states including all the major space races.

Thirdly, the legal framework for space movement should be through a global body overseeing the various member state public-owned facilities and any current or future privately owned facilities.

ISS wasn't designed well to start off with !!!

But more damage could occur if NASA and American Government doesn't allow others to play in its sandbox. It could cost alot of new technology advancements, personnel sharing, information sharing and more. Suck the pride in and get on doing the right work and advancing humanity into space.

Fledi,

Good saying "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" , our colonization approach should be development on that saying because we want to limit all risks associated with colonization and improve the benefits. You can plan the settlements with standard modules (living quarters, recreation areas ) and specialized modules. ( government / authorities areas, large spaceport, manufacturing / mining areas, agriculture and more.)  Also with 3 settlements apart approx. 30kms ( 20 miles ) then we could explore outwards another 30 kms safety that equals 120x120 = 1440 sq kms area not 360 sq kms from a single settlement. 

Also we can have a large population on the surface then with a single settlement and also have a larger droid presence ( under human control ) on the surface as well. Also requires more cargo transports and human centric transports from earth to mars thus creating a large space infrastructure around earth and on moon to manufacture the cargo transports, and human transports and explorer vessels and other special purpose vessels.

MR,

This not a soapbox for your opinions of the war, or is it because the ancient humans called Mars the God of War !!!!, but I can't see the relationship talking about the issues with earth and the issues that will relate to Mars unless you think we shouldn't go there because we are too young as a race and we might fight over the resources in space like we are doing here. 

I think that we are human beings of earth and second our country affiliation but most people are the other way around and until the human race grows up and works together we will have these growing pains as a young race and hopefully we will come together as one people with different cultural, religious and language difference only. Diversity brings strength to the human race but we are one people of one planet called EARTH.

Also the United Nations should be disbanded and replaced with the United Earth Government - One Planetary Government for One Planet for One People and the current UN Members are Member State Governments for their planetary region on earth, but any issue that relates to the whole planet is directed from the planetary government not from a regional government like the United States. I Hope that we start moving that way in the next fifty years or get there before I die.

Now I am on my soapbox.

The CEV Development will fail to meet the requirements for taking humanity into space.  Doesn't have the crew space, the cargo capacity and the ability for large scientific instrument packages for earth to orbit, orbit to moon or orbit to mars or orbit - beyond. I expect a new crew vehicle would be under development within 10 years after the creation of the first working vehicle hitting service.

Austin Stanley,

I agree !!!!

If the space community in Japan sells to the politicans and industrial executives that they could get the country out of the woes and get it focused on an ideal to create a better country, gain wealth for its citizens and grow back to a major world industrial nation and could also rival china in the process, they would do it, if it is only going to cost up to 1% of real budget terms.

Don't think they can't because you would make the same mistake our forefathers in 1930-40's did when they thought Japan wouldn't attack USA because we are world power.  I would also say they are going to the moon for their country and people not for the benefit for humanity or exploring or science but the raw resources and technologies that could flow back to their country.

MarsDog, and SpaceNut,

We need to look forward past the small earth conflicts like the iraq war, or the eu issues or the sa issues or world bank issues or even the UN issues. We need to bring a focus to the future of humanity, to start the journey, not the tour and return to earth, but the exploration and surveying for the future settlements of humanity in our solar system.

The conflicts on earth will sort themselves out over time and if not then we won't be going into space because not human race left to go into space.