New Mars Forums

The proof of concept of what? That the cable won't break after being pulled on that long? And putting beefier solar pannels work? Practice flight maneuvers with the vehicle you won't be using? This is provided you can even use a Progress up there already in ISS cargo configuration as the counterweight with essentially zero modifications, which is questionable, otherwise you double the price.

Its not worth the cash, $50M could about buy you a launcher for a Lunar rover payload... there are better uses for the money.

If they fly to Mars in 3/8ths gee, then there is no problem, right?

Therein lies the problem.  If we design our Mars ship assuming that we need to simulate Martian gravity, we will get a heavier ship.  We will also need to test it extensively.  At this point I do not trust tethers to last for the ~180 day journey to Mars, and only rigorous testing will dispel this belief.

If we absolutely must build a heavier, artificial-g spacecraft, we should make sure that it is necessary.  That's why I advocate parallel demonstrations of humans in zero-g for long periods of time, alongside demonstrations of living organisms in a simulated-g environment.  Test both methods and may the best one be used.

No president who has presided over Abu Ghraib should ever say he wants to put anyone on a leash. That's all.

That is why a free Soyuz and a free Progress is such a good idea, IMHO. Heck the incremental cost of flying such a tandem for tethered flight practice could be covered by the Discovery Channel special run about the missions.

If by "Covered by the Discovery Channel" means One Hundred Million Dollars, then yeah. It costs about $40-50M for a Soyuz and a bit less for Progress, plus modifications to the control systems, balencing vehicle weights(they have to weight about the same), and engineering involved (will the solar pannels snap off when spun up? safety cable-cutting system?) will easily make this a nine-digit project. And it will only last a few days, not months.

Okay, are some "groups of people" necessarily evil?

*People can act evilly -in- groups (often do -- Nazism, emboldened by numbers, peer pressure).  But to answer your question:  With the exception of people forming a group for purposes of carrying out evil acts, I don't believe any group of humans brought together via random chance (such as generational tribal units) are necessarily evil.

In other words, would God condone an "us vs them" mentality?

*Supposedly God created Heaven and Hell...so yes, apparently.

Can Satan be redeemed?  is a theological variation.

*According to theologies I'm familiar with/have been exposed to, that dude is damned regardless.  There is a doctrine in evangelical Christianity called "the unpardonable sin."  Humans can commit it and once you do...you're beyond redemption, period.

--Cindy

My worry is what we do with the Islamicsts 30 years from now or 50 years from now if birth rates continue the direction they are heading.

One person, one vote is the American ideal.

I wonder how big an electoral vote prize China and India are...

...wait a minute, they're not US states! </sarcasm>

The fact that there is a population explosion somewhere else is no reason for fearfulness here. As far as immigrants go, you cut the numbers back to where you feel you can assimilate them; it's not like the Middle East is right over the border. No need to bring in Nazi references. They're free to screw up their own lands however badly they want, and their military strength is so pathetic that I'm unworried about them going on a spree of conquests in 30 to 50 years. By that time the US will probably be technologically advanced to the point where they might as well be fighting the Borg ("Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Your cultural distinctiveness will be obliterated by an endless sprawl of Wal-Marts and McDonalds...").

Ultimately, Islamic terror loses the War on Terror. The only question is how many people die in the process.

Are some people pre-destined to be "evil" or can anyone seek forgiveness?

*Well, I presume you're predicating that as in "forgiveness by God."

As for whether some people are born (whoops...you said "predestined"...as in a church dogma?) evil, I think of Jeffrey Dahmer.  I'd like to believe he wasn't born evil.  However, even after incarceration and claiming to become a born-again Christian (including baptism), he still acknowledged strong impulses to commit more gruesome crimes.

I think some people are destructive killing machines (psycho/sociopaths) by nature.  Not sure how much control they could get over it, but I think there are a few at least in whom that nature completely possesses them and they could likely never -not- be that way.  :-\ 

--Cindy

Edit: We have satellites. They have car bombs and a higher birth rate.

This seems more like a stunningly concise statement of the sheer scope of the failure to modernize that Iran has had. One nation has built satellites and advanced the sciences on every front, and the other is poor, overpopulated, and its best military weapon is cobbled-together makeshifts. One has women in its army, and the other has women in the 7th century.

How very frightening. Let's take them seriously!

Trebuchet suggests the mullahs lay low and avoid rocking the boat. How? they are already dead-center in our targeting radar. That little laser pointer light is already lighting up Tehran.

The only way to survive once the laser light pointer is shining on you is to do whatever it takes - and I mean whatever it takes, not halfassed stuff - to convince the US that you're not really as psycho and threatening as you seem.

If I were an Iranian cleric, I wouldn't be so crazy as to put my nation in such dicey situations as "annoy the superpower"...

You raise some good and obvious points, but the premise is flawed. You'd behave in that manner if you were leading Iran. None of us can make truly accurate guesses of what goes through the head of an Islamic fundamentalist mullah, not being mullahs ourselves.  ???

But a guess: Were I a cynical Iranian ruler using Islam as a front to legitamize my rule, yet still believing that Allah is great, we are righteous, America is the Great Satan and that the Israelis are out to get me... I'd want the nukes. They're a good way of keeping the Great Satan from sacking my capitol (though also a good way to make the Great Satan want to) and if those Israelis try anything... Or maybe I'll hit 'em first. It's not as though the neighbors will get upset and the Americans get squeamish around wackos with sun-bombs, can't imagine why. 

By the way, don't worry about those rockets. Communications satellites, yeah, that's the ticket. Peace. 

Why are they using soil?

Hydroponically grown plants grow faster and with less waste.

Where does the hydroponic solution come from?

Water, found at least in some quanity on both the Moon and Mars, and numerous minerals that can probably be found in large quanities. Such as...

* * *

Whatever can't be found, can be brought along. And a lot of it can probably be recovered when the planets eventually die off, and from other... ahem... sources of waste.  :;):