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#176 Re: Unmanned probes » Strange mars "artifacts"? » 2004-03-23 12:47:28
So, did you want the full picture?
Ok, here it is:
"Appia" street
But please note that it is not "badly weathered": those tracks are due to the passage of hundreds (or thousands) of wheels of Roman carts!
Luca
#177 Re: Unmanned probes » Strange mars "artifacts"? » 2004-03-23 12:33:47
Ha ha! You got me!
But I think you cheated a little bit.
Yes... just a bit... 
That small section of a genuine Roman road (if that's what it is and you're not pulling the wool over my eyes once more! ) is so badly weathered as to be very natural-looking.
This is the reason which I posted only a detail of the image for! But I also posted the link to the full image.
If we could see more of the picture and make out a long straight series of stones disappearing over the horizon, as was typical of Roman roads, then their artificiality would be obvious.
Did you try the [http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … treet2.jpg]link? [http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … treet2.jpg]CLICK HERE!!!
The fact that the outcrop of rock which Opportunity has been studying is in the internal wall of a crater, and leads nowhere, detracts from any argument that it could have been purpose-built. If it was there before the impactor excavated the crater, why was it not destroyed?
Actually, it IS destroyed! Well, it WOULD, if it WAS a street... 
Luca
#178 Re: Unmanned probes » Strange mars "artifacts"? » 2004-03-23 05:23:23
Hej Luca!
Roma street are made of granit (hard stone) and this on Mars are sulfur rich (40%) stone which means very soft stone. On Mars are plenty of granit so I can see logic. Be patient in next crater opportunity is heading for nasa expect to find parts of
"artificial" Mars railroad. :band:
No RAILroads, just ROADS. Maybe ancient Martians were a bit primitive...
Luca
#179 Re: Unmanned probes » Strange mars "artifacts"? » 2004-03-23 02:54:50
Again, I don't know what I'm supposed to be seeing here. I can't see anything which yells "ARTIFICIAL!!" at me.
???
If you can't find anything artificial in an ancient Roman street, I don't know what else I could show you... 
I am NOT saying that "surely there WERE people running on street on Mars in the past"; I am just saying that Opportunity's outcrop is VERY VERY similar to an ancient Roman street.
What is the reason of this, I donpt know.
But you can't say it is not true!
Luca
#180 Re: Unmanned probes » Strange mars "artifacts"? » 2004-03-22 14:07:10
Luca, I've often said here at New Mars that I enjoy a good mystery or a good conspiracy theory as much as the next person. But I'm having trouble seeing anything especially mysterious in these photos of yours.
I eventually found again the photo I was thinking of when looking at those Mars photos:
This is a detail of a [http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … treet2.jpg]bigger photo.
Mars photo:
Luca
#181 Re: Unmanned probes » Strange mars "artifacts"? » 2004-03-22 14:04:54
Luca, I've often said here at New Mars that I enjoy a good mystery or a good conspiracy theory as much as the next person. But I'm having trouble seeing anything especially mysterious in these photos of yours.
I eventually found again the photo I was thinking of when looking at those Mars photos:
This is a detail of a [http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … treet2.jpg]bigger photo.
Mars photo:
Luca
#182 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here » 2004-03-22 13:13:54
I eventually found the photo I thought to when I first saw Opportunity's outcrop photos:
Take a look at it... and then take a look at the [http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … treet2.jpg]full photo where this detail was taken from!
Just an hypothesis... quite sciencefictious, perhaps, but...
Luca
#183 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here » 2004-03-22 12:02:34
[http://www.nasa.gov/externalflash/m2k4/ … meset.html]Interactive Mars Rover site (flash)
Quite funny, but not for dial-up users!
Luca
#184 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here » 2004-03-19 02:15:02
Incredible, it looks like that planet is completely covered with this spherules!
You can't see them in the thumbnail above or in the color pancam view of the dune
([http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery]zoom)
but you can see them in the microscope closs-up, although in b/w!
microscope zoom
Is anybody of you able to make on overlay of b/w microscope and color pancam imahes, to obtain a "color" microscope image?
Luca
#185 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here » 2004-03-19 02:05:02
Errr... Folks...
Guess what Spirit found? Spirit, not Opportunity!
[http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2M1328 … 1.JPG.html]http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2M1328 … 1.JPG.htmleh?
They look very different from the Opportunity's spherules! These are actually not exactly circular-shaped. But, most important, I have a feeling of beeing looking at a dig in the bank of a river on Earth: wet sand, wet pebbles...(can you see how sand grains stay attached to the pebbles?).
Waiting for the color version of the photo.
BTW, why can't I find L4 photos on [http://www.lyle.org/mars]Lyle.org ? Does not rover send them to Earth? Does not NASA send them to Internet? They are required to build an RGB photo, but in most cases I am not able to find them!
Luca
#186 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here » 2004-03-18 14:04:39
http://www.ominous-valve.com/pancam.html]This table shows that pancam has just Red and Blue Left/Right filters, but only left Green filter. Is it possible to combine in some way (add, subtract, divide, convolve... I dont' know...) right images to at least "emulate" a green filter? Color 3d panoramas would be really breathtaking! Why didn't they adopted also a green filter on the right cam?!?
Luca
#187 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here » 2004-03-18 13:47:41
It's definitely a rusty planet!
([http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040318a/09-JG-03-scuffpan-A074R1_br.jpg]zoom)
#188 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here » 2004-03-16 12:23:21
Ok, guys, it's not a wheel, it's just... some rocks!
Look at this comparison; I simply deleted the upper part of the "wheel" in both photos:
Although these appear to be the SAME photo, they are NOT: they corresponds 1-to-1 with photos above!
Blue and red lines point to features which remain the same; green lines point to two rocks which are separated in first photo and appear joined in second one, due to changed point of view.
We lost half of the wheel... the other half is just the same, but a bit more difficult to see, due to low resolution.
Sorry, no Martians! ;-)
Luca
#189 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here » 2004-03-16 03:20:10
Interesting photo, isn't it?...
:hm:It's an animated detail of bottomleft photos I found [http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/galler … _n067.html]here.
Just an hidden rock, or... something moves on Mars?!?!?
Luca
some things change in that animated gif of the Left/Right pancam images:
1) the big white shape at near upper left has a dark rock behind it moving to the left. you can see many other rocks in the same plane move to the left as well. it looks really extreme in the gif since you cant tell how far away the rocks are form the forground, but if you look at the [http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/galler … 16R0M1.JPG]Right cam view and the [http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/galler … 16L0M1.JPG]Left cam view you can see its merely due to parallax, look at the [http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/stereo … 0012-N.jpg]3D anaglyph of it to see how far away those rocks are.
I am not talking about rocks which look like they're moving just because they have different positions in the two frames (they have diff. pos. due to diff. point of view). I am talking about an "object" which is present in one frame but not in the other one: I discovered it looking at the anaglyph. When an object is present only in ONE of the two images of the anaglyph, you see a "phantom", a "transparent" object.
2) but maybe you were actually talking about the sort of crescent hump of dark rock that suddenly appears (near the middle right of the gif animation) and can be seen in the[http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/067/2N132320012EFF1800P1816L0M1.JPG]Left cam view. theres also a couple rocks that disappear behind other rocks to the right of that hump as well... or maybe it was something else that moved? didnt see it.
I am tolking about the "thing" which looks like a "wheel with a hub" lieing down (what the hell is the -ing form of "lie"?!?)
Not sure, but i think its just a lighting difference on that hump that makes it disappear, since its too big to be hidden from view, thought it does seem a bit extreme... that certainly is odd, i wonder how long time between these exposures... either its a Horta
"Horta"?!?
I did not specify what I was referring to as I didn't want to have an influence on readers' opinion about this image.
Luca
#190 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here » 2004-03-16 03:06:52
Here is JPL's official crater panorama:
[http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … R1_br2.jpg]http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery....br2.jpg
Yesterday I found an unofficial version of this photo (sorry, can't remeber the link now) which joins different filters, enhancing the blule: in the opposite side of the creater, just under the heatshield and on its right, you can see what could be a HUGE stripe of blueberries covering the crater! (I can suppose a 100x20 meters size or more).
In the offical photo you can only see a darker area with a bit of blue.
I'll see if I can find the link.
Luca
#191 Re: Unmanned probes » A wheel on Mars?!?!? » 2004-03-15 14:29:24
Please take a look at this post (and reply there):
[http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1472]Mars wheel
Luca
#192 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here » 2004-03-15 14:23:05
Interesting photo, isn't it?...
:hm:
It's an animated detail of bottomleft photos I found [http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/galler … _n067.html]here.
Just an hidden rock, or... something moves on Mars?!?!?
Luca
#193 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here » 2004-03-12 08:37:07
[http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/m … 40311.html]Pic of Earth...from Mars
"The Spirit rover on Mars took the first picture of Earth ever made from the surface of another planet. It also did a little astronomy, imaging bright stars.
It also spotted what could be a Viking Orbiter spacecraft or a meteor -- scientists aren't sure which.
????? Is the Viking orbiter still there?!?!?
Luca
#194 Re: Unmanned probes » Calculating martian eclipses » 2004-03-11 14:15:29
I have a veeeery old Astronomy program (dated 1993!!!), but it is very useful to easily calculates oppositions and conjunctions between every Solar System object. (It's named Expert Astronomer, is a commercial program, and I payed around 20$ for it , but it's great.)
I made an approximate calculation of march Martian Deimos eclipses, and I obtained these results:
(DATE time separation altitude)
2/mar/2004 9:33PM 37.2' 17 deg
4/mar/2004 3:54AM 19.1' 69 deg
9/mar/2004 5:20AM 53.0' 79 deg
10/mar/2004 11:42AM 1.2? 8 deg
I used 1.95S , 5.53W coordinates for Opportunity position, but I think they are not enough accurate, as the graphical simulation of the eclipse... actually does not show an eclipse, but just a Sun-Deimos proximity.
Where could I find a REALLY accurate Opportunity position?
How can I know the exact date/time of already happened&photographed Martian eclipses?
Luca
P.S.
Maybe AstronomyLabs, an old freeware program can also do this calculation, but actually I didn't try it ( I remember it could for Earth/Sun/Moon eclipses).
#195 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity survival - Could they srvive to Mars winter? » 2004-03-09 15:23:46
I agree, Atomoid. Two probes are better than one!
I think the 2009 rover is going to be BIG, though, and therefore it may be too expensive to send two of 'em.
Mind you, if it were up to me, I'd send six or eight ... or ten!! [...]
Just wait until Opportunity or Spirit will find even a little, very VERY little evidence of even microbial past life on Mars... and we'll have BUSes & TAXI going to Mars! :laugh:
Or, if rovers will discover some kind of precious material... just enough to payback the mission costs, and... :band:
Luca
#196 Re: Unmanned probes » Suggest A Feature - What would you like to see » 2004-03-09 15:19:30
Beagle's 'methane-sniffer'
A microphone (really!)
A flashlight to make a 'different' picture under same lighting conditions, if you reach a hole or something like that
The damned Polar Lander had a microphone!!!
Luca
#197 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here » 2004-03-07 14:34:46
3d marble-on-stem!
Enjoy them!
[http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini/gambo3d1.JPG]Marble on stem 3d - 1
[http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini/gambo3d2.JPG]Marble on stem 3d - 2
Done with [http://www3.zero.ad.jp/esuto/stphmkr/index_e.htm]SteroPhoto Maker
Luca
P.S.
Please note that these are hazcam images, you could get a bit of headache looking at them...
#198 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity*4* - continue here » 2004-03-07 13:13:01
OFF TOPIC
Sorry for the off-topic, but you can't miss this image!!!
[http://marsunearthed.com/MarsExpress/Ma … _3D%20.htm]3d Olympus!!!
#199 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity survival - Could they srvive to Mars winter? » 2004-03-05 10:06:51
I think the main problem is the batteries; when they get too cold, their chemistry is permanently altered and they don't store power any more. The rovers have RHUs--radioactive heating units--
Really? I didnt' know this.
Why not to power the whole rover with nuclear power?!? It would never die! Even no need for batteries, as nuclear power generator are always on, even during the night.
I thought current space mission didn't use nuclear power, due to Earth environment safety problems! ???
Luca
#200 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity survival - Could they srvive to Mars winter? » 2004-03-05 08:22:02
I read that Spirit and Opportunity will eventually stop working due to two factors:
1) Dust covering their solar panels
2) Sun maximum elevation decreasing while Mars winter approaches
Can these problems be solved in any way?
If I remember right, rovers' panels where folded, while inside the lander: could they be folded/unfolded again, to scroll away dust from them?
If the solar panel won't eventually furnish enough power to recharge batteries, will the rover die, or will they just "freeze", so they could be turned on again on next Mars summer? Maybe they can't work at -100?C , but maybe they will not break, just stop working... or not?
What about '97 Sojourner? Why couldn't it be "resurrected" after one Martian year? Did it have the same winter-problem, or was it just buried with martian dust?
Luca