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Where are horrific Islamic practices at their worst?

In countries we deem "allies" (Pakistan, Saudi Arabia)

Where are horrific Islamic practices the least?

In the countries we invade. Go figure.

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Our "ally" Pakistan condones gang rape of a sibling as  punishment for a brother's crimes. But does Shaun suggest we renounce and sanction Pakistan?

NO!

Why? Because they have nukes.

Hypocrite!

I recently read rumors that China may decide to ally with Iran in the event we decide to take out Iranian nuclear facilities. Iran will be one nasty bucket of worms.

May I suggest an edit?

ISS/STS: "The Golden Frankengoose"

First, I agree with you about the sweatshops. If some pampered suburban kid is given $175 pair of Air Jordans MORE of the purchase price should go to the factory workers.

No argument.

Second, if we boycott Nike (for example) and buy US made, that factory worker has NO job whatsoever. Is that good?

Third, if we buy off-label (but still made in sweatshops) and we pay $65 instead of $175 there is a smaller pie to slice, meaning it is less likely we can increase wages for the sweatshop worker.

If the American consumer held Nike's feet to the fire and $1 per pair of shoes (1 of 175) were added to the wages paid, the sweatshop laborer would have a huge increase in standard of living.

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Corporate logos slapped all over Mars? Tacky won't sell anyway so don't worry.

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Taxpayer funded? Never going to happen.

The vast majority of Iraqis are outraged and horrified at Hassan's death. My reading also suggets that they are furious at the idea that the solution to such atrocities is to give Allawi and the Americans more support.

How do you propose to end those abuses?

Islamic terror is a fire we must extinguish. Do we throw gasoline or water? Cindy, for years I have been saying:

"STOP THROWING GASOLINE!"

And in response Shaun accuses me of being sympathetic to murderers.

So what is the solution? Kill them all?

We need to talk to them (successfully) or kill them all.

You don't win a talking argument by starting out telling "them" how evil they are.

They? Who they? Which they? All of them?

Why did bin Laden do 9/11? Because the average Muslim was not sufficiently anti-western for his purposes.

Bomb NYC. US troops level Fallajuh and now bin Laden recruits new terrorists.

bin Laden sets a fire and we respond with gasoline.

Until we make it right. Whatever "right" may be.

How did we stop Egypt and Israel from fighting? We bribed the Egyptians with billions of dollars. Today, we pay Cairo billions of dollars each year not to fight with Israel. But we call it foreign aid.
 
One solution?

Landfill and build a big island in the Med Sea. Expensive? Yeah, sure, but remember, while God made the world, the Dutch made Holland.

Invest a few trillion dollars for infrastructre. Isle de Palestine, or Island New Israel. I don't know, flip a coin?

Jerusalem? International city not governed by Israel or Palestine. Author Tom Clancy once suggested letting the Vatican control Jerusalem. Being Catholic, that's fine by me, but others may object. ???

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Telling the Palestinians. "Too bad, so sad, get over it" just won't work, at least IMHO.

I like this way of phrasing it. Nicely said.

We Americans seek "freedom" from the constraints of society yet without society it is impossible to be human. The ancient Greeks (Aristotle) once said: A man without a city is either a God or a beast.

To the extent the American interpretation of freedom requires autonomy from society, are we then Gods or beasts?

As usual http://www.juancole.com/2004/11/more-on … .html]Juan Cole is excellent on the comparisons between the Hassan murder and the marine killing the prisoner incident.

But I believe this also is true:

Arabs ain't wonderful. Nor are we Americans (or Aussies).

Cindy, please quote me.

Where in this thread did ANY ONE say Arabs are wonderful?

I see the Arab press as a symptom of our larger failure to communicate. Its like the canary in the coal mine.

We have seen how Europeans and Americans can use the same word - - "freedom" - - yet mean very different things by it. OUR inability to grasp that words and meanings may not correspond prevents communication.

On Hassan's death, where should the outrage be? If I were a moderate Jordanian, my outrage would be against the Americans for failing to provide sufficient security to prevent kidnappings in braod daylight.

An analogy:

A school security guard is watching a playground and falls asleep. A pervert enters the playground and kidnaps a child.

Where should the outrage lie?

With the pervert? Of course. But Shaun would have that outrage replace the outrage at the sleeping guard.

Margaret Hassan died because America broke Iraq and has not fixed it yet.

Justice is the ideal to which we must aspire, not something we are "ever" qualified to measure or dispense.

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If the current system fails to protect society (releasing dangerous criminals) then the system is flawed and the death penalty becomes necessary due to our own prior failures and weakness.

Tell me the death penalty is something we need BECAUSE all of us are flawed creatures (all of us, police and judges and legislators included)and I will say, "Well, okay in limited circumstances, the fewer the better, execution may be the lesser evil of the options presented, but its still evil."

Tell me that execution brings a society closer to justice and I will fight relentlessly.

More calmly now.  :;):

If the United States cannot protect people like Margaret Hassan from being kidnapped in broad daylight in Baghdad, that means we are losing the battle to provide the security that is needed to allow the rebuilding of Iraq.

When was the Saddam regime removed? How long ago?

Fallajuh should have been cleaned out six months ago or even earlier. Sadr should be in custody.

Playing "Emperor's News Clothes" and demanding that the press say "all is well" won't help the situation.