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#151 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-28 01:01:38
I'd personally be dead against using the rovers being sent to Mars, in this "Golden Age" of exploration, as cobbled-together comms relays or anything like that. Martians - native and incomer - of the future will surely feel the same desire to preserve and celebrate their past that we Terrans do, and they will want to have their own museums etc. We can't deprive them of that.
I can forsee - and, if I was a martian, would demand - a "Mars Heritage"-type organisation, dedicated to preserving both Mars' natural and artificial heritage, both the landscape and the artefacts sent from Earth in the past. Natural Parks will be established - a martian Yosemite in the heart of Marineris, the summit of Olympus Mons, the cratered, blasted Badlands of Argyre, perhaps - where martians and visitors alike will be able to go and relax and enjoy just being on Mars ("on Mars... on Mars..." sorry, caught an echo from the end of BLUE MARS there!) Of course, if terraforming happens (my views on which are well known) then that would eventually ruin that idea, but in the short term at least certain areas of Mars will be preserved as "Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty", just as areas here in the UK are (at least until the Govt decides it wants to build another new town and just bulldozes them anyway...)
As for hardware, there'll surely be a martian Smithsonian one day, where martian kids will be able to go in the school groups, lead hand in hand by their teachers, and see Mars 4, the Vikings, Pathfinder and the MERs, as well as artefacts from the first manned landing site. That actual site will, I'd think, be preserved as it is, and visitors will be able to approach it but not go so close that they trample on the historic First Footprints. As for the rover / lander sites, maybe they'll feature recreations of the probes that landed there, and visitors will be able to walk around them, marvelling ("Wow! I didn't realise it was so small!") at the achievements of the JPL guys back in the Olde Days...
With all the furore over Hubble not being returned to Earth for honourable display in the Smithsonian, maybe now is the time to start thinking seriously about the future of our little mechanical ambassadors left sitting there on Mars after they've fulfilled their missions. They certainly deserve more credit, and respect, than being turned into Borgesque comms relays just to save a bit of money.
#152 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-26 15:14:29
Looking at the latest gorgeous image from Spirit, looking back towards its lander...
[http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … A053R1.jpg]http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery....3R1.jpg
(can't wait for a 3D version! ) ... a couple of questions spring to mind...
* What is the exceptionally-dark, large "boulder" over there on the right, a third of the way down from the horizon? MUCH darker than surrounding rocks - meteoric?
* On the same level as the aforementioned "dark boulder", and just above the right-hand side of a small, round, crater-like hollow seen above the rover's solar panels, there's a VERY bright object lying on the surface, just beneath a dark rock, which I can almost convince myself is reflecting sunlight in a quite metallic way... see it? None of the surrounding rocks - or, for that matter, anywhere on the image as a whole - have the same high albedo as this object, and it has me intrigued. Not suggesting for a MOMENT it's some kind of artefact, but it just looks strangely out of place, that's all I'm saying...
* Lots of the rocks in this area appear to have flat tops, some so flat they almost look sheared-off in a very similar way to the famous "Flat Top" rock imaged at Ares Valles by the Pathfinder lander back in 1997. Explanations?
And while we're at it, has anyone stumbled across any explanations for the berries/beads yet? Or heard an more about the gee-whizz "Mars soil may contain brine" story all over the net the other day? It all seems to have gone very quiet at JPL as far as announcements is concerned...
:sleep:
#153 Re: Unmanned probes » Nothing special inside BB!? » 2004-02-25 23:36:46
Don't know about blood vessels, yolks or whatever, but I'm a bit concerned the RAT exposed a buried mini Borg cube on the left there... :;):
I haven't believed for a moment that these "berries" are organic in origin, but I love your enthusiastic postings and love of things Martian, Errorist. Keep seeing shapes in the natural forms, you're in good company - it's because Schiaparelli and Lowell saw shapes on Mars centuries ago that we're driving around Mars today. I hope we're all celebrating you being right one day.
#154 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-25 11:37:51
GORGEOUS new 3D pic here, 3D fans... 
[http://www.marsunearthed.com/Spirit/Spi … lyph53.htm]http://www.marsunearthed.com/Spirit....h53.htm
#155 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-22 10:42:28
#156 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-21 07:59:38
Been away a while, missed some bits and pieces so playing "catch-up" as it were...
Fascinated by the "shiny beads" and these mysterious "threads" too, but I have to admit I'm becoming rather addicted to the 3D images on "Mars Unearthed"...
[http://www.marsunearthed.com/OMIndex/Ma … sIndex.htm]http://www.marsunearthed.com/OMIndex/Ma … sIndex.htm
I think this is one of the best I've ever seen...
[http://www.marsunearthed.com/Spirit/Spi … lyph47.htm]http://www.marsunearthed.com/Spirit....h47.htm
Josh... what do you make of the layering in this boulder cluster? Wouldn't you just love to be there with a geology hammer, chipping away, and peering into the cracks with a hand lens..?
#157 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-13 13:36:36
Among the fascinating new images available from ESA's MARS EXPRESS (I hope everyone has seen the stunning new shots of Olympus Mons?!?!?!) is this one of Gusev crater...
[http://www.esa.int/export/externals/ima … usev_p.jpg]http://www.esa.int/export/externals/ima … usev_p.jpg
More green streaks... this has been raised before and has still to be explained. Anyone got any ideas..?
#158 Re: Unmanned probes » PRETTY CLOSE MATCH FOR THE MARS SPHERES RIGHT HERE » 2004-02-13 13:11:12
Compare the two links: The Mars rocks contain sulfur, also.
GO TO:
[http://www.divediscover.whoi.edu/vent_c … ls_s1.html]http://www.divediscover.whoi.edu/vent_cd....s1.html[http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/rover-i … ic-med.jpg]http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004....med.jpg
Huge difference in scale tho, surely? The spheres in the Mars images are literally bluberry size, hence their nicknames, while the ones on your interesting pic look microscopic? Not sure, it's not very well captioned...
#159 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-11 23:36:34
Interesting insight here into what it's like to be working at JPL on the Rovers...
[http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/spotligh … ife01.html]http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/spotligh … ife01.html
#160 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-10 12:39:29
Looking at this pic...
[http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/galler … 60R1M1.JPG]http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery....1M1.JPG
...I can't help wondering if some pesky, mischevious martian is tossing handfuls of marbles in the rover's path to *make* it slip... :;):
#161 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-10 12:17:25
Personally I'm all *for* over excitation on here; we're all here because we're fascinated and enthralled and hypnotised by Mars and her mysteries, and each day's batch of new images makes me giddy to be honest, especially when something as unexpected and as bizarre as these "beads" shows up.
I'm with you Shaun, keep checking those websites! The day I don't get over-excited by almost-live pictures from Mars is the day I'll be put underground.
#162 Re: Not So Free Chat » Usborne » 2004-02-09 07:24:36
Might I offer that using rules of dialogue for a TV script are rather different than the rules one should employ with regular fiction.
I totally agree, I wasn't actually suggesting Dicktice should write as fiction novel dialogue as if writing for THE WEST WING, I was merely referring to that show's dialogue as an example of good dialogue.
TV, novel, movie, good writing is good writing.
#163 Re: Not So Free Chat » Usborne » 2004-02-09 05:27:09
...there's no way anyone in Dawson's Creek would be able to marshal their thoughts on emotion and life so densely and cogently.
Unless they are as perfect as Katie Holmes, of course...
STAR TREK characters Data dump (excuse the pun!) relentlessly too.
#164 Re: Not So Free Chat » Usborne » 2004-02-09 05:07:08
Stu: For one who has written technical manuals only (me), have you any tips for writing dialogue spoken in conversation by your characters? I mean, based upon your own experience at this time, while you're trying to get published. No-no's, for instance, that you might like to share. . . ?
Hmm, not sure how qualified I am to give advice seeing as I haven't been published yet :;): but I would say to keep your dialogue natural and give each character in conversations a distinct voice, with their own quirks, language nuances and "tone".
TV shows like DAWSON'S CREEK have been feted for their intelligent scripts and witty dialogue, but it's completely un-natural, full of long conversations where each sentences is so crammed full of worthiness that you can almost hear it preying. Conversations of that type are more like sermons or psychology 101 discussions, you know? And, even worse, the characters all have almost clone-similar vocabularies, delivery and tone, it's glaringly-obvious that what you're hearing is not so much a conversation as a script, written by a writer. If everyone sounds the same then the conversation will be unrealistic.
But listen to the WEST WING's dialogue and it is *perfect* - each character has his or her own "voice" and mannerisms, there are lots of pauses in the exchanges to allow points to register, golden silent time for people in the conversations to mull things over... and WEST WING is a prime example of how a lot can be said *without* words, how characters relate to each other with silences and pauses just as much as they do with words.
So, I guess it just comes down to not letting your characters "spout" on and on and on... if you take a moment to listen to people you know (or don't know!) talking, you'll realise there are LOTS of pauses for affirmation or clarification.
Any help?
#165 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-09 04:50:55
At least some of the spherical things seem to be imbedded in the outcrop and these things are falling out as the outcrop is eroded. That means these things were created as the outcrop was being formed. Here's a good picture.
"Good"? Wow!! I hadn't seen that, thanks for sharing it with us. Yes, the fact that the spheres are embedded in the outcrop material throws a completely different light on things.
But maybe the core of my original idea still holds... if this part of Mars was once underwater, then nearby volcanic eruptions / meteor impacts might have showered it with material which then sank down to the crater floor, becoming embedded in the sediments as they formed.
Just an idea
#166 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-08 05:09:17
Thinking... those little spheres might be ejecta from volcanic eruptions... you know, lava explodes into the air as an almost-liquid, sets in the air as it falls, reaches the ground as round pellets... Could also be "mini tektites", Mars-rock splashed into the air by impacts which then fell back to the ground as mini-meteorites..? Or maybe just silicon beads like those seen in lunar soil by the Apollo astronauts... could be all kinds of things, I guess. Want more pics of them - well, of EVERYTHING really!
Tell you what, tho, I'm VERY impressed by the detail visible on the new raw Pancam images of the bedrock at Snout outcrop. Those layers are soooo thin, like layers of crisp chocolate in an ice cream gateau, you can almost reach out and run your fingers down them, snap-snapping them as you go...
Very intrigued by the way one of the larger rocks seems to have split open too. Love those raw images each day.
#167 Re: Not So Free Chat » Usborne » 2004-02-08 04:59:02
Guilty as charged Cindy... yep, that's one of mine, number 4 out of 7 I think. I've written 7 books of my own and have worked on another 30 or so. Had a few articles in mags like ASTRONOMY and ASTRONOMY NOW, but nothing that's set the world on fire
Usborne are my main publisher, I do most of my work for them, but I've also worked with / for Kingfisher, Two-Can and others. I think my last book was for a Disney-owned publisher, available only in the US. I lose track to be honest, I just answer the emails and answer the questions... it usually works out, and isn't that big a deal really. Enjoy tapping away.
Trying hard to get my first fiction published now, long slog tho. My best writing has definitely been here on New Mars, for which I really want to thank you, Adrian.
#168 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-07 14:34:22
Found some "raw" Snout images here...
[http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/galler … _p013.html]http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/galler … _p013.html
And what looks to be a 3D close up of the Outcrop here too...
[http://www.marsunearthed.com/Opportunit … y12_3D.htm]http://www.marsunearthed.com/Opportu...._3D.htm
Look at how thin those layers are!!!
[http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/galler … 76L2M1.JPG]http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery....2M1.JPG
#169 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-07 14:19:13
Hey Josh,
Yeah this is puzzling and frustrating me now, too. As fascinated and as excited as I am by the outcrop, I'm straining at the leash to get out of this crater and at least get a good look at the surrounding landscape, my imagination is on overtime wondering what amazing things we'll see!
#170 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-05 23:42:21
Looking at the latest picture, either Opportunity is drunk, or she swerved to avoid a passing martian...
[http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … 11L0M1.jpg]http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery....0M1.jpg
Or maybe she just has a wiggle when she walks... :;):
Nice poem Clark, glad no-one laughed at mine (yet! )
#171 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-05 13:15:39
I know there's a poetry thread somewhere but can't track it down, so I'll post this effort here instead. Nothing serious, just the results of a slow day at work and too much staring at the Spirit mission success panorama... :;):
Be gentle with me, I have a rotten headache. 
THE GHOSTS OF GUSEV
Earth? Blue Earth? Can you hear me?
There are ghosts here?
This land is stalked by namesake-spirits,
Phantoms old when Earth was still new.
No frightening forms of writhing mist,
But memories of icy dew
That glistened briefly when ancient dawns
Bathed these rocks in molten-gold light;
Maudlin memories of blue-sky days
Shimmer just beyond my sight.
By day my unblinking CCD eyes
Stare out on a bone-dry, bleak land;
I watch dust devils dance to silent songs,
Rake dark trails across these frozen sands;
See the shrunken Sun rise, sail across the pink sky
Before surrendering the day to the stars.
I glimpse Earth before dawn - a sharp, sapphire shard,
So far away, so far, so far?
Dust stings my skin now, I feel its touch;
Blown down from Columbia?s Hills
It trails its fingers over my ?face?
And whispers around my wheels
As I stand here, dwarfed beneath cinnamon skies
Without a trace of blue.
But the spirits take me to a different time,
To the Mars God only knew.
Then, cool water fell, deliciously slowly,
From skies blue as kingfishers? wings;
Rain-bloated clouds drifted over the Sun
And though there were no birds to sing
The air was still honey-sweet, warm and rang
To the giggling of sparkling streams,
Water rolled over rocks, spilling into deep pools
Edged with fragile, living green?
Rainbows watched over Them, bright bridges of colour
Slashed the sky open like scythes;
Sunsets blazed at the end of warm days
Before diamond-dust stars filled the night.
Cool nightwinds blew softly over this lake,
Their caresses sending slow waves
Rolling silently towards the far, curving shores
Where the first ? and the last ? Martians bathed.
All gone now. Defeated, devoured by Time,
Fossil dust on a world dead as bone.
Lonely ghosts serenade from their deep desert graves,
Remind me I can never go home.
Only cold rocks remain now; jagged, dust-sculpted
Stones shaped like skulls, ages-old.
Oh Earth, Blue Earth, are you hearing the crying,
The sad sighs of dry Gusev?s Ghosts?
- SA
#172 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-02 13:11:49
Just been drooling over the hi-res version of the Opportunity Mission Success Panorama... absolutely incredible detail in the rock "outcrop", layers like a gateau... tantalising features on the rippled horizon... the bizarre "leaf" seen the clearest yet (I think it looks like a piece of airbag material...)
But for me the biggest "wow" came from seeing just how many bounce marks there are. They're EVERYWHERE! In all directions too. I get the distinct impression that the lander rolled down into the crater from the right side of the outcrop, and then rolled around in the bottom there for a while, like a marble in a cup, until finally coming to rest. One of the bounce marks is very close to the rock outcrop, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they find that the lander actually impacted the outcrop as it bobbled about inside the crater. Maybe this is where the airbag material was flayed a little, allowing pieces like "the leaf" to come off, I don't know, just guessing.
But it is a stunning image, and no wonder Steve Squyres and the others are just itching to drive over to the outcrop - which looks more like the half-exposed fossilised remains of a martian T-Rex's spine than ever (go Hoagland! :-) ) and start studying it.
Can't wait!!
#173 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-02 05:12:02
Hey Stu (I got it right this time) great images. That's a nice find. I tried looking for them myself to see what text explanation went along with them. I'm guessing they are pan cam images since one is in stereo. You wouldn't happen to have a link to the web page they were on would you? Congrats on your Mars fest event.
Glas you like them! I just came across them whilst browsing the Planetary Society's pages... not much info on the page itself but you're welcome to look for yourself...
[http://www.redrovergoestomars.org/journ … _sol26.htm]http://www.redrovergoestomars.org/journ … _sol26.htm
... and the journal entries from the kids are fascinating too.
Thanks for the congrats on the MARS DAY, yes, it was fun. I wish some of my NEW MARS friends could have been there. Lots of happy memories, and only one major "open mouth insert foot" incident... I was showing a group of kids some of the 3D pictures taken by Spirit, and as they stood in front of the screen wearing their 3D glasses, "wow!"-ing every few moments, I turned to the woman looking after them and told her she should have a look thru the glasses herself. No, she told me, I can't see 3D images. "Go on", I told her, trying to sound reassuring, "I know it can be difficult at first but you just need to let your eyes relax and get the 3D effect; most people can see them after a few moments". Yes, she said, smiling, I'm sure most people can... *they've* all probably got two eyes tho...
The ground never does open up and swallow you when you want it do, does it..?
#174 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-01 07:49:22
This link should take you to a nice new 3D image of the outcrop too...
[http://www.redrovergoestomars.org/image … 24x512.jpg]http://www.redrovergoestomars.org/images....512.jpg
#175 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *3* - ...continued from previous threads » 2004-02-01 07:47:40
Just stumbled across a lovely pic of the Outcrop...
[http://www.redrovergoestomars.org/image … 12x256.jpg]http://www.redrovergoestomars.org/images....256.jpg
