New Mars Forums

Okay, everyone repeat after me....Space Elevators!

The way I see it, the amount of energy needed to lift a significant amount of mass up through the atmosphere (and the fact that you have to carry all your fuel with you as well) will ensure that "conventional" space launches will remain a terribly expensive proposition.  The idea of "space guns" is a neat one, but are impractical inside Earth's thick atmosphere, imo, plus you'd have to deal with the high accelerations, etc.

Space elevators would essentially solve all of these problems and more (like the destruction of the ozone layer everytime a rocket passes through it) and will be THE key to opening up space as a viable frontier.  If only the U.S. would initiate a "Manhatten"-style project to design and build a space elevator instead of re-doing the Moon, building a space station that's not really needed, etc...maybe one of these days, people will see the light..lol.

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I sure hope they repeat this documentary on PBS sometime..lol..

Keep up the great work, Cindy...this is fascinating stuff!

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Well, I haven't given a whole lot of thought to this issue, but if you were to ask me how I feel about the space nuclear issue...I would say, yes, nuclear power should be kept open as an option for space travel and/or settlement.  Unfortunately, the "greenies" have a very valid point about getting nuclear material from Earth into space, as there's a very real risk of an explosion upon takeoff and spreading nuclear material over a wide area.  (I live in South Florida, so this is something I would be personally concerned about..lol.)  I have no idea if it's possible to transport nuclear material in an inert state, so there would be no risk of contamination, but if they could, then I would have no problem with it.

This is why I feel so strongly about space elevators...to me, that would be the safest and most practical way to transport nuclear reactors and rockets up into space (and not just LEO, either.)  I don't see why anyone would be opposed to nuclear power once it's put into use in space, as there's no worry of contamination (except for the astronants, of course.)

Of course, it goes without saying that future settlers should take every step possible to safely dispose of nuclear waste, making sure it doesn't cross-contaminate everything, etc.

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Since this subject seems to be attracting a lot of attention as of late, I figured this would make a good thread-starter.  (Quote pulled from "will Beagle find..." by Mad Grad.)

First of all, it is my strong opinion that deeds to any property this is not of this Earth be immediately declared null and void by one or more nations.  I just cannot believe that anyone can have the authority to claim property that hasn't even been physically surveyed and recorded in a legal jurisdication.  Anyone that believes otherwise has been fooled by a wily entrepreneur who has made millions off his "product," which is nothing more than a fancy piece of paper.  It'd be like someone claiming the oceans and charging tolls for ships, or claiming the airspace over the oceans and barring airplanes from going through it.

The reason why the United States hasn't done anything about this loon is because there hasn't been any real reason to prevent someone selling a "novelty" item for so-called "entertainment purposes," which is how they perceive Lunar Embassy and other companies selling off-Earth "deeds."  But you can bet your bottom dollar that once America or some other nation starts putting people and bases on the Moon and Mars, that land will be under the control of the people that actually occupy that land.  If Mr. Hope wants to sue NASA...more power to him...but he'll be leaving the courtroom as a loser, not to mention all those people who might think they actually own a piece of the Moon or Mars.

If you look at the history of human settlement of this planet, private ownership of property has come about *after* the land had orginally been claimed by a higher authority, like England staking claims to portions of North America.  There was no way that a European, for example, could claim a section of North America and sell pieces of it to other people without actually taking physical possession of the property from the King or whatever.  In short, private property doesn't exist unless someone is actually physically present to stake a claim to it under national jurisdiction and/or legal authority.  Since space hasn't been placed under any kind of national or super-national legal authority, staking claims in space is completely irrevelent, which is compounded by the fact that the "owner" hasn't even been there in person to survey the property (which is a *must* for establishing legal ownership of a piece of property, which is then recorded in the public records, etc.)

So...what do you guys think about all of this...??  Should space "property" be declared null and void, thus saving people from wasting their money on worthless peices of paper, or is this just a trivial matter that's not even worth bothering with... ???

Any and all opinions on this topic will be highly welcomed...

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Why not use Segway people movers? Those would work even better in Martian gee than here, I would imagine, and they don't take up room at all. They'd have to be used on paved ground, I suppose but that would be true for bikes as well, and using a Segway would be easier while wearing a suit, etc.

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Ha, that's a good one 

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Since I'm a "Green", here's my two cents...  Yes, I'm a strong believer in conservation and protection of Earth's precious resources.  I think it's extremely important to live in harmony with our environment (glad to see you getting into recycling, Cindy ) as well as sustainability.  If we cut down our forests and fish out the oceans, the terraformation of Mars will be a moot issue, since we'll never get there in the first place! 

Seriously, though, I don't think we have any business terraforming another planet until we've learned to properly manage our own.  Granted, we've come a long ways in controlling pollution, species protection, getting more use out of farmland, etc, but we still have yet to get into equilibrium with our environment, which is something that'll be even more important if people are to ever live on Mars. 

But the thing about terraforming Mars, it could very well teach us how to re-terraform Earth should it ever become hostile to human civilization (like the new ice age that's supposed to start in a couple thousand years, lol.)  And my Number One reason for supporting terraforming (the concept of it, at least, it's an extremely messy proposition no matter how you look at it) is that a terraformed Mars would serve as humanity's ultimate life insurance policy (get it? "life"..hehe...)  Plus, there will never be more than a handful of people living on Mars if conditions aren't at least a *little* more conducive to life (human or otherwise.)

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You haven't fully experienced life until you've watched a college basketball game in Cameron Indoor Stadium. (Duke University). 

I'd recommend wearing some ear plugs, though! 

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My favorite season is winter.  What's yours?

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Perhaps this should be worded as the LACK of eternal vigilence...the American people have the responsibility of making sure that their government adheres to the boundaries of the U.S. Constitution.  If it doesn't, then we (the voters) need to do something about it...like voting in the first place..lol.  Apathy is the acid that erodes freedom, and we have far too much of it in this country, IMO.... ???

And yes, context IS important....in just about everything we do.

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Well, the *logical* thing to do would be to obey the law and turn him in, as harboring a known fugitive is a felony.  Yes, the guy may be innocent, but that's for the justice system to figure that out. 

When in doubt, call the cops.  They're paid to deal with problems like this...

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This brings to mind my visit to the National Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC.  It was heartbreaking to see all of that, but I learned an incredible amount about the Holocaust and Nazi Germany in the few hours I was there.  I learned how the Nazis stripped the rights of Jews and other "undesirables" little by little, while other nations stood by and did nothing.  Not to say that the Jews didn't put up a fight, however, as I saw some truly amazing stories of Jewish heroism during this terrible time...how people communicated with the secret codes written on soap wrappages, etc.  And the room full of shoes from 1000's of victims....words are not enough to decsribe the feeling of standing in that room, smelling those musty shoes...

The thing I fail to understand, is why the U.S. took so little direct action against the slaughter of the Jews even well after we knew about it.  We didn't bomb the rail lines used to tranport the prisoners, for instance, and everyone knows about the story of the ship full of refugees that got turned back, to be killed at the hands of the Nazis...    There's a good deal that the U.S. should be ashamed of, unfortunately... (including, but not limited to, the atom-bombing of Japan, the interrment of Japanese-Americans, etc, not to mention not getting in the war when Germany began taking over Europe...)

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