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Folks I disagree with Errorist but still I do not believe calling someone a Moron or mentally unbalanced is really the best way to have a Forum.

Could we please stop this as peoples frustrations are beginning to appear into these forums.

Rational discussion is fine but name calling is NOT.

On another thread Cindy states people refuse to speak to her as they disagree with her honestly held views. I may not agree with her views but that is immaterial as She has the right to those views and ostracising someone due to honest views speaks of a pettieness that is below anyone on this forums.

We will have problems with how our individual countries and perspectives differ. But then again it has been said that variety is the spice of life, so this variety should provide strength not be our undoing.

Errorist

Huygens was never planned to be the Probe that learns everything it hardly could be, could it.

What it was designed to do and has done very well was to test the atmosphere find its composition and see wether it is actually of interest to go back again. It has ensured that we now know what Titan really is like and its only 3 hours of recordings are pure Data and as has been said again and again will keep the scientists busy and happy for years.

Just remember that due to the only mission architecture that was available to the probes designers was going to give this probe 3 hours before it could never send anything home again. After that Cassini was going to be over the horizon and that was it.

Next time they may send a Rover and you will get your pretty pictures but it will only be Because Huygens will have told us how we can land on Titan and how bad a landing can be. Better yet it will allow us to use frequencies to control the rover that will work better as we know which will get out of Titans atmosphere better.

And if you really must know it was never sure that Huygens would ever reach the surface it was never for sure that there would be a surface, it may have hit OCEAN. If it did hit land it was a bonus if it didnt so what its an Atmosphere probe and it is from this that we will find a lot about Titan.

Does this include the new requested 80$ Billion

Its probably due to the amount of scientific data that the probe was to collect. Pretty pictures are necessary but not really as important as the atmosphere data that the probe was designed to take. It is this data that will keep the scientists busy for many years.

You will just have to accept that the probe was never a tacky publicity stunt but a very advanced for its time attempt to find out the most that could be done in the limited time available. The camera was never the most important bit of the mission but only to give us a real glimpse on a world that could be how our earth was in its primordial state.

It is not the pictures that told us of the atmospheres content or how it had been raining liquid methane and that there where clouds of this in the sky. It was the ground probe that told us the surface of Titan was "muddy". So please get of the Anti Europe stint using Huygens as your excuse. Dont worry Huygens did its job rather effectively.

Massive hydroponic farms need a lot of building so by the time we have them built most people will have starved. Then it beggars the question how would you power these Farms if we have a winter that lasts a few years how would you heat them or worse we have the wild weather that destroys everything except the super toughened flood proof buildings, which also have to be well away from the new ocean shoreline

All of these things require fuel and energy to operate. If there is no fuel or energy then you starve. And even if you manage to get a powerplant working how do you get the fuel for it?

No its a lot more easier to actually just make sure we dont have the problem in the first place. Because whatever happens if we such a disaster then our society will change and possibly be destroyed. Nation states would certainly be destroyed and it will become small communities looking after themselves

Martin I agree, China when it comes to space gets the advantage of the experience of both the American, European and Russian programmes. It also can simply buy or use less reputable means to gain access to all the advanced technologies that have been developed to pioneer space. Chinese using Ion engines is on the cards not to mention they have plans to use telerobotic robots to give themselves an edge as well when they get to the stage where construction is needed. All we really know of the Chinese space program is its "stated" aims and that each advance is giving the scientific and technical sections of the Chinese population a real boost not to mention its morale boost to the general public.

India though is a lot more of an open state when it comes to space. It actually does have a lot of space experience with so many of its trained people having worked for NASA. India is also open to working with other states where as China which had its partnership agreement with NASA to get to the ISS summarily rejected

Even with my limited German that is not a very nice word is Verwustung.

Very very Wagner and he really was one death obsessed person.

I suspect that with the fear that is prevalent now in western travellers of deep vein thrombosis a plane which you can get up in and actually walk a distane and even actually do some exercise will find a good market.

I also suspect that the era of the cheap sardine long haul flight will be coming to the end if the horor stories of people getting off the plane from a flight from london to sydney and pretty much dropping dead continue.

Still reading the A380 glossy brochure it seems they did do there homework when it comes to the largest airports. Apparently sixty of them say they can take the A380 without much if any changes either to runway length or to passenger embarkation/demarkation.

Still it will come down to this the A380 is designed to travel between the really busy city airports and as such these airports have very very tight airspace slots. If a plane can take more passengers for less fuel and still fit in it should do very well. I also seem to think that the dreamliner is selling itself to the cheaper airlines which like easy jet fly into the airports that are located far out of the towns and cities they are supposed to go to.

The A380 is a gamble like the 747 was it will need to have runways lengthened to be able to operate. The owners of the airports in the 70s where willing to do this for to accomodate 747's will they do it for the A380 now?

But as an example of engineering and design the A380 is truly a wonderous machine.

I agree and it does show how the world has changed.

We are suffering the pain at the moment of how so many manufacturing jobs are leaving the shores of the western world and going to a "cheaper" to operate climate.

Still it is worth noting how the people who design these devices the scientists and inventors are heading. For many years Europe suffered what was called the "Brain Drain" where many very bright people left to go for the big research grants that could be gained in the USA. This though has stopped some of it due to changes in policies by the current administration but a lot has to go to a renewed sense of science in Europe. If anything this "Brain Drain" has reversed. Still for the up and coming countries like India and China it is worth noting they are losing there brightest to both Europe and the USA. So in science endeavours it seems the western world still leads. (not counting Japan).

The future is as they say is the undiscovered country and it is really hard to make out. We can gain some insite from the general trends and try to apply it to history to see if we can see the pattern that forms.

My prediction. We will have a more unified Europe and it will become a superpower. China has the potential and the will and I believe it will be one too. But these superpowers and I still include the USA will be tempered by the smaller countries who will form treaty organisations like OPEC to ensure that as they have most of the resources that these superpowers require that they get the most out of it. It will be who can influence these countries that will show who really rules the planet.

Unfortunatly this is a definite told you so. Back in November I reported in the Bush next four years topic that Blair had been to Washington. On his agenda had been the stalled middle east peace process, Galileo and how to progress in Iraq and to get relations with Europe back into harmony with the US.

Insiders at the meeting on both sides basically stated it was more or less a disaster. After that people in the whitehouse where calling Blair a potential future enemy. Add to this certain things which have happened in Iraq and things where not so rosy.

Politically Blair and Bush are at different sides of the political spectrum but that was put aside when 9/11 happened and the war against terror. Blair put his relationship with Europe which he naturally leans to on the line. Europe appears to have polarised around the distrustful attitude of France and Germany and is feeling a lot more powerful in its own right. So now with the relationship with the USA fractured by the USA this leaves Britain a stark choice carry on in a one sided relationship and that is how it feels more often than not or go with our neighbours.

Im not a fan of Blair, but I can understand the position he is in. And frankly I can only see a bigger seperation between the USA and the UK coming. If 9/11 had not happened it was apparent that the USA was leaning to far east towards China and the nations there. But so was Europe which saw China as a great investment and NOT as a potential military rival like the USA does. As the nations of Europe get closer it will only increase the pressure on the looser countries to choose there sides. And Europe does appear to be the saner bet than a militaristic dictatorial USA.

Of course in Washington with Condalleezza Rice as the new secretary of State this can be turned around. It really is time for the USA to be aware of what is happening.

My only real problem with this space prize is its only open to American companies. This bars a lot of of the original X prize competitors. This does annoy, and shows that even with NASA wishing to gain from the experience and skills of foreign companies there is an attitude of them and us in the space launch industry.

Of course it is probably done as Bigalow has the problem that he will not be allowed to use anything other than pure american launchers to send up his inflateable modules. But it still indicates a lack of vision and smacks of protectionism.