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#101 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Thermal rockets » 2008-03-16 17:25:13

Well, the usual list of problems:

  • Power, the beam generator would require multi-gigawatt-scale output for a few minutes  to reach high Isp and thrust, perhaps more given the short firing time available. This pretty much makes it impractical for the airship to power the beam generator. Transmitting energy up to the airship would also prove problematic.

    Acceleration, that in order to reach nearly orbital velocities while the "target vehicle" is within the horizon of the beam generator, the acceleration it would be subjected to would be very high. While not as high as a railgun, it would be too severe for people most likely and impose some nasty restraints on payload.

    Thrust, since the target vehicle would fly from horizon to horizon in at most several minutes, the vehicle must have thrust similar or likely more than most launch vehicles, making the engine difficult to construct.

    Angle, that the thermal engine on the target vehicle must be facing the beam generator, which will further limit the "time on target" that the beam can illuminate the vehicle to produce thrust, making the above items even more problematic.

    Atmospheric scattering, if you go the laser route, it will be hard to hit a target with a focused beam while it is in the lower atmosphere since density gradients and other atmospheric effects will alter the beam's path, reducing the power-on-target and further compounding the power requirements of the beam generator.

    Beam generator mass & volume,whatever energy directing device you use, it will be gigantic in order to generate and direct a beam of that magnitude. A beam in the megawatt scale, likely around 10,000 times smaller than the beam you would need, takes up a good chunk of a cargo planes' payload.

    Missing, that if you miss the vehicle or the beam otherwise fails, then the target vehicle is going to have to perform a super/hypersonic abort, which is not a happy thing anybody ever wants to do. Furthermore, the vehicle itself would have to carry jet engines or something in order to abort, since the point thrust is lost and speed drops is unknown unlike Shuttle.

    Hitting stuff on the ground, that you obviously couldn't base this anywhere within many, many miles of people or property; the best place would obviously be over the ocean, where you have sufficient room with little chance of hitting anything, right? If you are way out in the middle of the ocean, what happens when the target vehicle has to abort? Where would it land? How would you recover it?

#102 Re: Human missions » Underground nuclear explosions as a source of power » 2008-03-16 12:30:11

What you are describing is a fusion-boosted bomb, which I believe you have the order wrong: the Plutonium fission actually starts first, which generates the necessary conditions to initiate fusion of the D/T gas inside, and not the chemical explosive. If this were not the case, the fusion reaction would not be fast enough to generate the neutron pulse which goes on to boost the fission reaction prior to explosive disassembly. Remember, particle and radiation speeds are much higher than blast wave speeds.

he trick for a purely chemical explosive trigger is to raise the amount of fusion that occurs to the point it releases enough energy and enough radiation to trigger the remaining gas to fuse in a rapidly cascading reaction. You also have to focus the chemical reaction to produce an extremely intense pressure and temperature in a tiny spot at the focus of the implosion, right in the centre.

Impossible. Chemical explosives simply don't have the energy density to do this. You can't make the lens powerful enough regardless what kind of chemical explosive you use, you are piddling around with tens of percent from HMX to ONC and the like, when what you need is an order of magnitude. If this were practical, the military would have done it long ago as the ultimate weapon, a pure fusion bomb.

Sono-fusion is a largely useless curiosity which has fooled you into baseless optimism about the possibility of chemical explosive induced fusion igntion.

#103 Re: Human missions » Underground nuclear explosions as a source of power » 2008-03-15 22:54:04

Its not just hard to ignite fusion of any isotope with chemical explosives - its impossible. They just can't produce the necessary pressures/temperatures high or long enough before the device is destroyed. Nowhere close to high enough for what you want.

With a "fizzle" "dud" nuke you have a similar problem, except igniting fission instead of fusion; the bomb blows up before much fission takes place, so no/little energy is released. This is what happens when nukes don't work/aren't built properly.

#104 Re: Human missions » Underground nuclear explosions as a source of power » 2008-03-15 19:22:00

Clever, but I don't think you could channel enough intensity of X-rays far enough to initiate a second detonation at any useful distance.

#105 Re: Single Stage To Orbit » SSTO » 2008-03-15 07:02:23

Mass drivers? As in going directly to orbit? Or just as a boost for a launch vehicle?

Either one of those scenarios! Either to directly launch into orbit, or to work as a booster.

It think that you could get rid alot the weight of the fuel by using some sort of electomagnetic catapult. For some reason they can't/won't do this. Anybody know the specifics?

There are several reasons actually,

First is that such a system would be quite expensive if it were to be powerful enough to be effective, and so you would need lots of launches to pay for its construction. Nobody needs that many launches right now.

Second is the thing would not accommodate today's light-weight rockets very well, which must be launched at a high angle. Making a rail-gun long enough to be effective as well as gentle on the rocket could not be built at such a high angle cheaply enough. Building a rail gun as well as a new launch vehicle to go with it would be very very expensive.

Third is that a rail gun able to reach useful speeds as a "booster" would be huge, you need to be able to fling hundreds of tonnes up to supersonic speeds!

A direct-to-orbit would severely limit the payload mass to let you build a rail gun of practical size, plus the payload "bullet" would have to resist extreme acceleration forces. It would be difficult to build such a bullet able to stabilize its orbit after launch (rockets and guidance required). Oh, and splitting up your payload into a bunch of little bullets makes space construction a nightmare.

Another reason is that if there was a failure on a launch pad, all you lose is a concrete slab and maybe some cheap steel tower. If you have a failure of the rail gun, a multibillion dollar supermachine goes kaboom.

Its not a bad idea, but its not an idea we ought to look into right now.

#106 Re: Single Stage To Orbit » SSTO » 2008-03-15 06:54:28

If someone lived in an Airship, and launched to Orbit from there, it would be an SSTO for them.

I's a good thing we don't live underwater; we'd be having discussions about whether launching from a boat would count as a first stage.

Anyway, the lower air resistence should help somehow.

Well, most people live on the surface, and the rockets are built here too, so that kinda dictates the definition. smile

Lower air resistance would only shave a few percent off the Delta-V "bill" at most. The trouble of hauling the rocket to such an altitude to save a few percent? No way that would be a profitable tradeoff.

#107 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Nuclear Thermal Rockets (NTR) » 2008-03-15 06:45:51

One of the great lies of Greenpeace et al and one one of the things most laymen don't understand is that Uranium is not appreciably radioactive. The atoms that result when Uranium splits, thats the radioactive stuff that should scare you. However, purified Uranium splits very very slowly on its own, so effectively none of these nasty product atoms are formed until the fission reaction (in the reactor) is started.

Uranium is little more dangerous than Lead. Workers at French nuclear reactors and Canadian fuel element factories need no more shielding from fresh Uranium than plastic bags or kitchen gloves - not lead and concrete.

It is only after the reactor is started up that the fuel becomes intensely radioactive, so if a brand new reactor crashes? No problem.

#108 Re: Human missions » Armstrong Lunar Outpost - status » 2008-03-14 21:08:48

Cool

As one microbiologist put it, we are entering the era of "wet nanomachinery"

#109 Re: Single Stage To Orbit » SSTO » 2008-03-14 21:06:04

Mass drivers? As in going directly to orbit? Or just as a boost for a launch vehicle?

#110 Re: Single Stage To Orbit » SSTO » 2008-03-14 18:47:44

I was refering to if the blimp was a permanent platform. Like the DSS.

It would be well above the ground, and would hence be an additional stage.

#111 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Airship part-way to Orbit » 2008-03-14 18:46:50

The amount of thrust you could generate with the very low pressure Hydrogen aboard the balloon would be very small. Remember that the pressure in the balloon decreases with altitude, and so by the time you reached near-space height its pressure would be nil. Pumping the gas would itself require energy, and given the low pressure the amount of energy needed to compress the hydrogen would be prohibitive.

Drag really isn't much of a problem, and neither is altitude, speed is everything... stop trying to fight tooth and nail for a little altitude, speed is what you need.

#112 Re: Single Stage To Orbit » SSTO » 2008-03-14 13:34:24

I've come up with a defination for an SSTO: anything launching into orbit using only one stage from a permanent stable platform like the ground or a blimp.

The blimp would be a first stage.

#113 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Airship part-way to Orbit » 2008-03-14 13:33:42

Even at that high of an altitude there is still some drag to contend with, so a low-thrust electric engine (ion, vasimr) probably can't approach orbital velocity with such a bulky space ship.

So, a DSS station is only good for giving you altitude, which as previously established is only good for suborbital flights, not orbital.

#114 Re: Human missions » Underground nuclear explosions as a source of power » 2008-03-14 09:33:11

They are quite efficient as far as joules per kilogram, but that does you not one bit of good if you can't capture the energy generated. A small nuclear reactor would weigh less than a few decent yield bombs and the geothermal plant needed to capture the energy.

Besides, destroying the subsurface where life might be hiding, and that your power plant is sitting on top of? Not so good.

#115 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Orion (CEV / SM) - status » 2008-03-13 17:03:40

Well, since they are never technically suppose to be exposed to anything until reentry, it would appear on the surface to mitigate the flaws.

Having said that, is there any good reason to have an SM with a smaller diameter than the CM?

That and the area of the shield is much smaller. And the shape is much simpler. Oh, and its not upside down like Shuttle.

As far as the SM size, it was reduced because of the higher density of hypergolic fuels hence making the SM lighter. Instead of making a "stubbier" SM of the same diameter as the CM would limit the size of big efficient spherical fuel tanks plus make it harder to stow the solar arrays/communications antenna.

#116 Re: Human missions » Underground nuclear explosions as a source of power » 2008-03-13 15:46:35

Energy from an explosion will shatter surrounding rock, leave a hole then collapse the roof, leaving lots of loose rubble. Radioactivity will make the area inaccessible for many years afterward. Any water run through that shattered rock will come back contaminated with radioactive waste. It would probably leach radioactive contaminated water into the surrounding area for quite a distance. Big mess, but the heat will not last very long. Sorry, but very bad idea.

One terraforming technique proposed was to nuke the surface of Mars. That would heat the planet quickly, but radioactive fall-out would take so long to decay that by the time it would be safe to walk on the surface the planet would have frozen again. Again, bad idea.

If you want to use fusion power, try to design a reactor that uses inertial confinement. We have seen with magnetic confinement that the more power you generate in the reactor, the more power you need to confine it. The best you can achieve is break-even, so abandon magnetic confinement, look to inertial confinement.

Yeah, people high on the science org chart ought to spend more money on inertial confinement research.

However, energy from fusion is still a looong way off.

#117 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Ares I (CLV) - status » 2008-03-13 15:27:00

So what you are saying is that your opinion is founded on baseless, uninformed arrogance instead of what the well informed professional engineers say.

#118 Re: Human missions » Underground nuclear explosions as a source of power » 2008-03-13 14:37:46

Ummm later on for terraforming maybe, but nukes don't make a very controlled energy source.

#119 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Ares I (CLV) - status » 2008-03-13 12:48:50

And if the official NASA statement says its not true, why should we believe a rumor?

there is difference between a problem SOLVED and a problem they HOPE (or are SURE) to solve in the next months/years... just need to wait to see the Ares-1 to fly... if fly...

You are dodging the issue, if NASA says there is no weight problem, then where did the rumor come from? And why should we believe the rumor?

#120 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Ares I (CLV) - status » 2008-03-13 11:52:45

the "vibrations" issue is an official NASA claim, the same was the problem of flight stability (from press release) the doubt about the Ares-1 come from (good or bad) evaluations from several places, the Orion overweight was admitted (despite they say that have/will solve it)

at this point, that myths NEED a REAL flight to be debunked smile

No, the myth is that Ares-I's vibration issue is impractical to solve, not that there is no issue. And this is categorically false, and should be easily remedied as Dan Golden has said.

And the myth that Ares-I is underpowered was "admitted" by NASA? How is that? NASA officially and explicitly contradicts that statement, so where did the rumor of performance problems come from? And if the official NASA statement says its not true, why should we believe a rumor?

#121 Re: Human missions » Design Reference Mission 5.0 » 2008-03-13 08:11:03

BTW DRM 5.0 is based on DRM 3.0 not ESA's Aurora architecture... With more funding everything can happen sooner. Get Australia to contribute to the Mars program instead of just whinging about it.

Yes, the new plan is a take-off on DRM-III, redesigned for safer landing, improved provision for a future base/hopper system, and trading NTR for more Ares-V launches.

If the Aussies donated a billion to NASA annually, NASA could shave YEARS off getting to Mars.

#122 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Ares I (CLV) - status » 2008-03-13 08:03:44

And where did the myths come from in the first place? With words. Oh, and here I thought you weren't going to use colored text anymore, gaetano.

Seriously though, where did the original myths come from?

#123 Re: Single Stage To Orbit » SSTO » 2008-03-13 07:32:58

Yeah basically,

And the fuel tanks would be huge for a nuke-powered SSTO.

#124 Re: Planetary transportation » Running on Compressed Air? » 2008-03-12 20:38:53

You don't want cryogenic anything. The reason is the energy that actually pushes the rover comes from the kinetic energy of the gas in the tank. And where is a condensed cryogen get this energy? On Earth, the air is warm and thick, so you could get some energy that way, but on Mars the air is cold and thin and thus provides little energy.

Or to put it another way, compressed gases store energy, like a coiled spring, while a cryogen is an energy sink (or more accurately a heat sink), which is sort of the opposite of what you want.

Furthermore, with a cryogen heated by the Martian atmosphere, you would have trouble with CO2 condensing as dry ice on the radiator/heat exchanger.

#125 Re: Single Stage To Orbit » SSTO » 2008-03-12 20:29:48

With 850sec, then something like a chubby delta wing plane or maybe even a Delta Clipper style VTOL rocket.

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