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#101 Re: Terraformation » Opinions on My Terraformed Mars texture » 2007-06-18 19:36:20
First you need to let your notions of what you know go. Microbials that formed somehow after the planet cooled is what created life on this planet,
Once these microbials are introduced into an environment like Mars, either a rapid change or a slow change will take place. Grass and trees would not springup over night. The first part of the expieriment would have saplings placed in containers that after the Martian soil had been
conditoned with earthen compost and a underground irrigation system installed to provide water that the roots of the trees would burrow into the soil to get to a change would take place. After about a three months the containers would then be removed to see how the saplings would interact with the Martian atmosphere.
Orginisms within the soil and water would most likely change very rapidly due to their single cell structure. This when coupled with the microbes that may be in the soil wil also cause a change. I call this evolutionary adaptation - whereby a single celled orginism when introduced into an unfamiliar environment changes its cellular composition to adapt and survive in it's new environment.
If the same procees of photosynthesis begins to occure then the trees will begin to produce oxygen which would then combine with the other gases in the atmosphere creating another change until an ozone is formed which would then trap heat that would then spur the growth rate of the saplings that much more, it would probably take more then a hundred saplings, probably more like a million, the 100 was just a number thrown out there.
The second part of the expieriment would have greenhouses established around the planet that would grow saplings and other oxygen producing greenery. As the greenhouses become overcrowed new greenhouses would be built transfering new saplings to other areas of Mars. When enough of Mars had been covered with greenhouses the oxygen that would have been gathered into storage tanks would then be released into the atmosphere, most likely causing a near instant reaction within the Martian atmosphere. The only difference between number one and two would be that number two would have more earthen soil and compost mixed together
It's starting to sound like you are just trying to throw other connatations
out there to make it sound like you are informed.
Like I said I lived on a farm and have done numerous expieriements along this line of creating an ecosystem in a bottle. I suggest you study a little more. Not to be mean.
#102 Re: Terraformation » Opinions on My Terraformed Mars texture » 2007-06-17 10:56:00
Dryson;
The wrench in this idea of trees on Mars is the temperature -- about 80 below in most places at least at night. So I don't think sequoias or dawn redwoods will do well there. We will have to be very selective about which trees we take -- just Antarctic species, zone Zero-A.
Trees depend on water. If the water freezes, the tree dies. Sugars can change the freezing point of water, but not enough to permit life on Mars. Also, no soil -- the "soil" on Mars is inorganic. Really just pulverised beach sand, like the Sahara.
I wonder if you could catch CO2 in the liquid state between solid and gas and then dissolve sugars into the liquid CO2, to change its triple point curve and allow it to remain liquid in the veins of trees -- CO2 sap.
Trees would have an impact on the temperature of the entire planet, we know that trees produce oxygen that when the oxygen mixes with the other gases of Earth they form ozone which protects us from UV rays that would otherwise turn the planet into a mars like surface, the ozone also acts like a thermal insulator that traps the gases and keeps them from dissapating into space. If there are not any trees then there are not any water producing clouds, if there are not any water producing clouds then there are not any trees, they go hand in hand in the regenerating cycle.
Yes the surface is like the Sahara, so too was this planets soil at one time as well. Try this notion on soil making. We know that when something alive dies bacteria feed on this decay, whether it be wood, leaves, flesh, ect. The microbes break the cellular structure down until any organice material is gone. The microbes then evolve and wait unitl their next meal, gross isn't? it 
As these microbes begin to die theirself they leave behind their own orgainc mixture of their cellular structure along with what they have diggested and left as waste, this waste has moisture in it or small amounts of carbon and H2O. If this mixture now becoming a layer of soil is able to retain it's moisture then eventually other microbes will feed off of this waste which will spwan other microbes that will have adapted to the environment, Each generation of microbial that is born and then dies builds upon the last generation thus eventually creating a layer of soil that
has nutrients in it to support a tree. When this tree dies and falls over the process is started all over again until you have a planet like Earth, this process would not happen overnight but could take thousands of years to complete. Eventually the sand like surface would be covered by microbes living and dying, compound upon compound, pressure then diamonds and other materials like oil and methane gases are formed, anyway,the only problem is if the soil loses the moisture then what is left is the cellular structure of the microbes compressed into tiny grains of sand. Ths is how an uncontrolled planet would evolve.
But as humans we could erect greenhouses dig out maybe 20 by 100 feet area of Martian soil replace it with good old decaying compost, layer the compost with the Martian soil, too much nitrogen in the compost will burn young roots of the tree, water the trees, allow some of the Martian atmosphere in and then release the oxygen back into the atmosphere.
I did an expieriment like this when I was yonger and lived on a farm, I took a clear two litter Pepsi bottle and a green two litter Mt. Dew bottle, the ones that had the plastic base to them that was glued to the bottom, I cut the base off filled that base with nothing but soil, I didnt add any seeds or nutrients, I then took the top portion of the bottle and duct taped it to the base, i screwed the cap on as tight as i could get it. I then set them on the window ledge and about three weeks later grass had started to grow. I never added water but the gases that were trapped inside from the decaying material coupled with the suns UV rays created moisture that ran down the side of the bottle that kept the moisture moist. In a few weeks the first signs of growth were creeping out of the soil. Grass. What was interesting as well was the Mt Dew bottle produced a greener grass.
As Einstein said it's all relative, not relative like that but relative.
#103 Re: Terraformation » Opinions on My Terraformed Mars texture » 2007-06-16 18:16:07
A terraformed Mars would be a totally different planet then what it is now.
All the old notions of how Martian weather would be would be gone. We know that Earth is habitable because of the ozone layer that protects us from the suns UV rays. With atmopshere on Mars the ozone layer would also at the same trap the gases like it does here on earth effectively changing everything.
I was recently watching a special on The History Channel about Mars and the polar caps. If what is specualated about Mars' polar caps having hydrogen, and the other elements that make water, which when
coupled with the process of trees taking in carbon dioxide that produces sugar or energy along with creating oxygen which every lifeform as we know it needs in order to survive can show that by just taking maybe o
ne hundred tree saplings to Mars planting them close to the close the polar caps may initate the process of producing a breatheable atmosphere like that of Earth. Of course irrigation would have to either be
designed and taken to Mars along with some glacial water, why glacial water, because glacial water contains microbes that survive in that type of environment and would help in the growth of the trees.
Or irrigation could be designed to melt and would then be pumped from the Martian polar ice/water caps to the roots of the tree. The upside to this expieriment could possibly see the trees grow at a very
rapid state given that trees thrive on carbon dioxide and produce oxygen. Perhaps this is why the Redwoods in California grow like they do and are so enormous, they may have been the first trees to clean the
atmosphere of CO2 thus making oxygen that other lifeforms grew from. The down side is the PH level of the Martian soil, but the upside to this is when the glacial ice water along with the microbes and the
trees interact together the PH level may possibly be changed to suit the needs of the growing trees and microbes. The only way to find out is by conducting the expierement on Mars.
Try adding various species of trees to your model ranging from one too 1000 year old trees. This along with varrying heights of the trees will make for a very different weather pattern.
#104 Re: Terraformation » Terraforming » 2007-06-16 18:06:29
I was recently watching a special on The History Channel about Mars and the polar caps. If what is
specualated about Mars' polar caps having hydrogen, and the other elements that make water, which when
coupled with the process of trees taking in carbon dioxide that produces sugar or energy along with creating
oxygen which every lifeform as we know it needs in order to survive can show that by just taking maybe o
ne hundred tree saplings to Mars planting them close to the close the polar caps may initate the process
of producing a breatheable atmosphere like that of Earth. Of course irrigation would have to either be
designed and taken to Mars along with some glacial water, why glacial water, because glacial water
contains microbes that survive in that type of environment and would help in the growth of the trees.
Or irrigation could be designed to melt and would then be pumped from the Martian polar ice/water caps
to the roots of the tree. The upside to this expieriment could possibly see the trees grow at a very
rapid state given that trees thrive on carbon dioxide and produce oxygen. Perhaps this is why the Redwoods
in California grow like they do and are so enormous, they may have been the first trees to clean the
atmosphere of CO2 thus making oxygen that other lifeforms grew from. The down side is the PH level of \
the Martian soil, but the upside to this is when the glacial ice water along with the microbes and the
trees interact together the PH level may possibly be changed to suit the needs of the growing trees and
microbes. The only way to find out is by conducting the expierement on Mars.
Up out and Beyond