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The strap-on booster would be cargo for the space vessel development projects every time it is carried onboard with the spaceplane thus can be charged as cargo by weight of assembly without fuel. The fuel would be an expense on each launch and the spaceplane would be an asset to be maintained and depreciated against for the life of the plane similar to an airline. The return large cargo and personnel would be a paying flight similar to airlines ( cargo from space based factories, and passengers from staff of other businesses, and our own personnel in orbit. again profitable)
Having read the last few postings I have to say. That this sounds suspiciously like the space shuttle that we have now where the majority of it is expended each flight. It takes months to get each flight ready but it was claimed on creation it could be done in weeks. Oh and it is one of the most expensive designs for spaceflight ever created. It was supposed to be truly reusable, but the dream was dropped and now it is a fundamentaly expensive millstone for spaceflight.
Spaceplanes will be devloped starting with a TSTO design where the lower stage is completely reused but for actually getting anything heavy to space we will still need a Heavy lift option. This is the problem that the shuttle faced and failed to actully implement. If we want to put more than 5 tons into orbit we need to have to use a rocket as spaceplanes mass fractions are perfect for quick reusable light cargos like people but not for heavy loads and trying to mix both options in one craft makes it an undesirable launch option.
GCNRevenger, you enjoy the rocket concept and I don't have any issues with your opinion on one use delivery methods except when over a period of time it is extremely expensive particular when talking about movement of 300 personnel per year in earth space rotations, lunar surface rotations and eventually going to mars missions and crew rotation for it as well.
Then you can use a basic TSTO design where it docks with something in orbit and crew transfer is done. Having a single craft that can go from the ground and go anywhere in the solar system is truly a science fiction plan. Even to have a single stage RLV is frankly too far ahead for us and though it could be made its cargo capacity would be so small as to make it fundamentally useless. We do not have the engine (this includes nuclear) and material knowledge to do this yet and for the forseeable future. T
Probably but data was supposed to be an android with a positronic brain and that could be an example of what could be done in the future.
Still a lot of work to be done but we are on our way at least.
As for cooking with butter, while butter on its own doesn’t sound appealing and I don’t know what shallots are.
Shallots are members of the onion family, but how to cook them you are on your own I could burn a pan of water.
What else do you eat, seafood, stuffed mushroom caps, etc. Deep fried Mars Bars? You sound like a junk food nut.
Depends sea food ie fish etc are good for you there oils are well recomended. Junk food is really something I take on the very rare occurence, 6 nation championship etc. But my only thoughts on Snails is finding ways to have them destroyed before they eat my garden away. A small plastic cup of whisky burried in the ground does for them, they drink and fall in to drown. I honestly do not know of any place in Scotland where they are sold to be eaten.
We have known for some time that the current design of processors for computers and through them Robots has a natural limit using what we call silicon chips. There power is supposed to double every 2 years but there is a natural limit to just how many we can place on a wafer of silicon.
So quantuam computers have been the way to go and if it actually gives us Robots like Asimov so described all the better. Especially when it has to be noted that we have useful and reasonbly competent other components. It has always been the Brain and giving a robot the ability to think that has kept the science of robotics back.
Bring on the Positronic brain!!!!!!!!
I actually looked at the title to this thread and thought it refered to NASA.
But snails honestly the idea of eating them eccchhhhh. Give me a deep fried mars bar any day at least that is regular food
I can honestly say that the way to sort out the UNs inaction is to actually give it an enforcement arm. A UN army of peacekeepers.
I can honestly also say that the Idea of a UN army of peacekeepers controlled by the UN really worries me. The UN is a bureaucratic red tape knightmare which is easily dominated by those small countries like Sudan and Zimbabwe that treat there populations as fodder. (Zimbabwe is leader of the Human rights sub committee of the UN). And to give it a modern Hi tech army that would likely have regiments put into it out of control of the regiments goverment and to be very Hi tech and paid by me the taxpayer to be very wrong.
I wonder why Japan wants to spend so much money, It certainly indicates plans greater than just to build a lunar base. And so what could it be......Mineral Mining :?
Well said, CC!
Actually, I got some way into a post quite similar in many respects to the one you just submitted. But I abandoned it.
You've said much of what I wanted to say, anyhow, and made a better job of it, too!Your views on Africa apparently coincide with thoughts I've had about the situation for many years. In theory, of course, I want black Africans to govern their own countries. I'm sure everyone feels that way. But in practice, they all make such a hash of it and indulge in so much tribal slaughter (politely called civil war) that I have to wonder, as you do, whether colonialism would, on balance, promote the greater good.
Having said that, colonialism itself opens up so many opportunities for abuse of the indigenous populations that we simply can't go that way again. It's unthinkable.Your comments regarding the ludicrously unsustainable moral indignation of the Left at anything and everything America does or doesn't do, echo my own opinion exactly, by the way.
Nicely put.
:up:
When you see that under colonialism though there was no political power given to the indigenous population at least they had a legal system that gave commen people protection and a quarantee of property law.
There was an organised system that put education and medical services as well as transport available. Leaders didnt "eat" there population or deliberatly wreck the most impressive agriculture system just to score political power. And major foreign buisness couldnt just cause a cou'Detat to install a majorly corrupt official as a new head of state. And leaders dont put there whole country into debt just to get a lovely new palace and a really good peice of military equipment to show of to their neighbours.
Many things where done wrong under colonialism but actually it seems (maybe under a set of western eyes) that things where better then than they are now.
*Nope. I'm not merely bashing the UN(unless, of course, you consider hard criticisms and expressions of frustration as "picking on them" somehow, i.e. "bashing"[puh-leeeze]). I am seeking a genuine solution.
They do deserve the contempt they are getting. But so does China for being more interested in the Oil that the Sudan produces, Russia for not wanting to spend the money, and France for not wanting the possibility that it might get soldiers killed and showing that its aircraft carrier is a brand new floating nuclear powered scrap heap, and of course losing its moral authority to blame the USA.
So what can be done as there is no way that we could get any forces spared by the USA and GB....they are too extended. And the local african forces are frankly....thugs with guns. Chad and Libya have for what is Africa reasonable trained troops(they used them in the war they have been fighting for years but who would trust either to do anything.
So the UN is frankly trying a paper exercise condemn but not too strong. Threaten but not with dates that require action. And of course lie, Big lies and of course statistics.
Sure there are problems with letting a few wealthy people direct our space program, but even with government agencies that's what we have. It's only a question of layers, a board of directors or a Senate committee, either way a handful of rich old white guys say what goes up and what doesn't. Until space travel is cheap enough that anyone can do it, that's the reality.
In real life we have to accept that it is wealthy people who control the goverment and it is through there sponsorship and pressure groups that beats NASA's drum.
I really wish it it was different but people seem to only vote in multi millionaires nowadays. And like calls to like.
I've said my peace.
Cindy I understand your frustration but we do actually read the posts and it was only to now that I could reply. And though we thought of the Astronauts as people with the "right stuff" they where not the only hero's. There where a lot of people that pushed the space program and everybody was a hero then from the mission control to the guy who welded the smallest component.
We have lost this aura that space had and it really is a case of so what done that. In fact we fell out of interest it was a fad. If sending millionaires to space will pay for the likes of me as commen as muck to actually get up there and do real work then im all for it.
This is clearly true. However, the same official who was saying that India was a step ahead in satellites also said that India was equal with China in terms of rocket technology. How can you assume that the official is correct in one of his claims when he is clearly wrong in another?
India has learned from is in the creation of its own rockets and missiles. China has though gained by technology transfers from the USSR and then Russia, India from NASA.
Still what China has is an operating system in the Long march where India is still rather basic.
It is in an operating system that India is behind but in theory I think they are if not equal then it is slightly weighted towards India.
It seems to me to be a reasonable point to make that you cannot seriously call for a humanitarian intervention, unless you want everyone to laugh hysterically, while you are carrying out aggression and breaking the UN charter left and right. The UN is of course mainly a tool of the powerful countries; and the most powerful country is the US.
First the US must cease breaking international law.
*So it's okay for the UN to turn a blind eye to 70,000+ people being murdered in the Sudan and NOT call it "genocide" -- let the perpetrators get away with it -- because the U.S. is breaking international law?
--Cindy
No its not alright, But there appears to be a complete lack of interest in doing anything by any country. Least of all Sudans neighbours.
To even get to the area we will need to have to through the main area of sudan or to come another way. Probably through Libya or Chad.
The USA and GB will not be able to do it...we are too stretched by being in Afghanistan and Iraq to be able to put anything like the force needed into the area. And the area is so volatile almost like the situation in Rwanda that we cannot use airpower to bomb the fighters into behaving we cannot tell them apart from the air and it is so confused that there is no real targets to bomb, what is needed is ground troops.
So the UN cannot do it it has no standing army. it has to have member countries involved and no one is interested. So where is Russia, France, China, India in this they are doing nothing so much for diplomacy.
I have noticed that a lot of Indians believe that it is patriotic to exaggerate their accomplishments to an absurd degree. This looks like just another case of hyperbole. I think India is still far behind China in most areas of satellite technology.
No I have to disagree with you on this, For more than 30 years there have been a lot of people with very good engineering and science skills coming from the Universities and colleges of India. India has a surplus of thse people and with the culture of low wages its one of the reasons that so many buisnesses are outsourcing their technical and support services to India.
But what really is of interest is that there have been a lot of very good aerospace engineers who have left India and now work for NASA or ESA. India in its engineers has a lot of experience in satelites and through involvement with NASA in space flight.
What India has is a weakness in indigenous Launchers and in the making and advancing of them. In this China with its long march are way way ahead.
I dont think that was boasting in saying India is ahead of China in satelite technology just a frank appraisal. But Indias lead is not insurmountable and China could easily overtake.
Slightly more on track.
Space Race 2, But the west is not even in it and its a three way race.
http://www.spacedaily.com/2005/05022818 … html]India claims its ahead, of china
And with Japan returning to flight status and with ambitious plans for missions to the Moon and eventual manned flight, it seems it could be interesting.
There is a pretty seething pot of national pride and envy spiced with a good load of ambition in the Far east. It is conditions like these that originally created the space race and now I believe China and Japan and India will have there own
Virgin have now got 7000 cutomers for the flights to the upper atmosphere and each are paying £115,000 each for the pleasure. That is a lot of money taken in for an investment by Richard Branson of £74 million. If he gets all his passengers he will be paid £805 million in return.
I suspect that he will get the 7000 people and probably a lot more as he gains efficiency and the price for flights reduce. Interesting point is that sort of financial return could easily pay for a developed spaceplane that could enter LEO.
Every administration since the Civil War has been a borrow and spend administration. You know if you don't like Bush because you are against the war just say that. Spin, spin, spin.
I was not for the War, I have allways had my doubts about its claimed WMD etc. But it does not matter now, we are in it so we have to finish it.
What was being said in this forum though was the USA is fighting an expensive war and is also reducing taxes! There is only so much money in a pot and just where are the funds coming from to do both. You have to pay for it sometime and a country that gets into a financial mess has a tendency to make the world sick. And im not convinced that the USA is not in a real financial mess.
Mining the asteroids to terraform Mars, itself a lofty notion, will be a task suited to begin in the 22nd century, more or less, and the incentive to do so would have to dwarf the incentive not to bother. The expense of the infrastructure is staggering.
But, there might be a few cowboy types that wouldn't mind life in a can and could sail a prime asteroid into Mars orbit, or shove it directly into the planet. That might happen, after Mars has been fully documented by the sciences and is desperate for metals and ice.
But, again, given enough robots and propulsion devices, Mars could eventually have a litany of mini-moons without too many cowboys on the payroll.
No just plain common sense. We will need to make things to be able to move around and grow in space. If it is sent from the ground it is too expensive. And it is easy for the Asteroid miners to supply the Earth and since we need what the asteroids have someone sooner rather than later will do it
That said "colonizing" the asteroids is science fiction.
And sending man to Mars isn't? ???
The US has nothing to offer the rest of the world? OMG dude, take a trip and see what other countries are like. See how all of Europe shuts down for 4 hours in the middle of the day to take a nap. Let me tell you what the world wants most since you don't know: American movies, cigarettes, soft drinks... Also the immense food production of the US keeps food prices low for many third world countries and we even give them some of the money to pay for it!
If the dollar's worth drops like a rock then our goods become less expensive to the rest of the world and American's then have to pay more for foreign goods, which they won't so that is good for our economy. Dude, sign up for a marco-economics class.
Dook im a european take it from me my country does not shut down when the sun is high. But certain countries do, it is there culture to do so, Then again though they consider the working day to go well into the evening. They evolved this way of working when air conditioning was not invented. Actually they consider it mad to be moving around at noon and early afternoon.
The United States is a tremendous producer of food but this is due to a very highly concentrated industrialised way of operation. It requires extensive use of machinery and chemicals. Any hindrance to oil would seriously dent this production and there are a lot of people looking for Oil at the moment.
Even with the Dollar falling in value it actually does not increase exports too much. Most products are now made in countries other than the traditional western sources. These production countries still have the advantage with there much reduced costs that a low dollar USA cannot even match! Especially with most products made in the USA requiring resources from outside countries that do require payment.
A lot of the value in what is the Global american firms are that they are making there money abroad or in financial services. This means making money by selling loans and credit cards
War for oil, omg. Then why haven't our gas prices gone down? Where's all this oil, that we are supposedly stealing, going if not into the world's oil markets?
It is going into the worlds market. But the demand for Oil at the moment is incredible and many countries are pumping at full capacity. This is generally put down to India and Chinas new and increasing demand for fuel. Iraq is hardly ready to increase its oil exports yet it is still trying to repair and modernise the infrastructure it already has. Oil prices are rising and it is apparent they are not going to go back down, actually expect some real big increases this year.
The sky is not falling but it is just the general trend of economic power shifting. It is at the expense of the USA but that is free market economics for you. And it is open for sabotage like everything. imagine if China was to dump its dollars cheap. it would hurt the Chinese but it would do a lot more damage to the USA. It is an example of just how really fragile the worlds economy has been designed to be.
Cobra wants a global currency? Hmmm....
Sounds socialist.
Actually I'm just saying the US should consider, if the rest of the world wants to follow, great, but it isn't necessary. Particularly being that the Dollar is close to a de facto global currency already, at least for the time being.
besides, how is a global currency socialist? it's not as though I advocated taking it from the producers and giving it away. :;):
Fair enough, socialist may not be accurate. But it got your attention, no?
But, a global currency would signify the coming end of the traditional system of nation-states, excatly as I argued about with Shaun a while back. A global system of largely uniform laws for finance and banking would be an even stronger signal.
It would especially when there would obviously be an organisation in control of what happens to the money ie how much is printed and in its worth. This is a world bank extraordinaire with the power to tell countries where to go.
The Dollar though used still for measuring how much an item has value ie Oil barrels really is not as useful as it once was and many countries no longer believe it to be stable. This is especially in the case of Argentina which pegged its currency to the Dollar in the erstwhile hope of fiscal security and was badly stung. Actually not having recovered from it.
The only currency that appears to be a threat to the percieved Dollar hegemony is the Euro. It has benefitted from the damage the Dollars slide has done and with some reforms in its member nations could actually become the defact trading financial stock. Ie how many Euros to a barrel of Oil.
For the USA this would be percieved as a real loss of power and respect. And in these dangerous times it would be a real body blow. And with certain countries notably China holding very large reserves of Dollars it could happen that should a sudden slide in Dollars value occur happen then China could dispose of its Dollars and exasperate a bad situation tumbling the dollar to being worth nothing. It happened to the USSR
It makes for a more acceptable risk scenario and reduces loss of cargo to Mars by escape, extra atmosphere.
It would be easier to simply designate an area of Mars for deliveries of such consumables than to risk possible large gas or similar deliveries going wrong by a miscalculated aerobrake and or turbulence caused by an external factor like terraforming itself and sunstorms. We want to make sure these things dont crash where we dont want them. And designating an area of Mars as an impact zone is a perfect way of ensuring this.
Even with a combination turbojet/ramjet engine though, you still aren't going to reach high enough speeds to keep the spaceplane's fuel bill low enough. Since Scramjets are probobly out of the question given their low state of maturity and nessesitty that the carrier plane be built around them to work, that option is out too. So I think there are two possible routes:
-Equip the carrier plane with regular turbojet/turbofan turbine engines and LOX/kerosene engines, perhaps with LOX loaded in mid-flight by ACES type system to lower takeoff weight.
-Equip the carrier planes' turbine/ramjet engines with LOX injectors to boost their performance for short periods to reach higher speeds and altitudes.
If you can get up to Mach~6 and ~100,000ft+, then the spaceplane powerd by slushed hydrogen starts getting smaller fast.
There is one other way to get such a carrier to increase speed fast. Let it get to a decent height using regular jet engines but when high enough it switches to the rocket that it was carrying and ascends to 100,000 feet. Where we can seperate the actual spaceplane.
Advantages are that speeds in excess of mach 6 are available without requiring very complicated new jet engines and or scramjet technology. This leads to a lighter upperstage needed and a bonus to cargo carrying capacity of such.
Disadvantages are that you would require a rocket motor that can be reused reasonably easy and it would have two seperate engine systems on board the carrier aircraft.
still a possibility.....
Sorry in my fumbling way I was trying to get that across and explaining why there is no way any Balloon assisted spaceplane would work. Still there is the other point and this is to do with spaceplane seperation. As the speed increases so does the difficulty in the seperation and increases the risk to both planes.
Lets see it really is in Chinas interests to keep the Oil flowing that is powering its economy. And with Russia not putting a pipeline into China it means they need to keep the oil flowing from somewhere. China is showing a lot of interest in countries like Libya and Venezuela who still have capacity to increase there Oil production and are not really what could be termed as USA friendly.
Still it really is not cold war material just one of the countries that rely on a reasonable stability so that they can continue to grow. so we have to live with it and especially with China having a border with Afghanistan and Afghanistan with Iran.
There are two sides to everything and this also applies to the falling Dollar. Though it allows buisness to be able to sell its products a lot easier it also means that the companies themselves become a lot easier pray to hostile takeovers by foreign companies. And if you require resources from abroad like Oil you find that you are paying a lot more for them.
Still it is when it is reset that it really hurts. Even if it starts to rise all the people who have debts or credit find they are needing to pay a lot more interest. People find there jobs going and small buisness gets hammered.
Still if a lower stage can seperate at speeds of mach 3 to mach 5 at very high heights. It will allow the second stage to be able to benefit from the reduced air drag. This is why a carrier aeroplane for a lower stage is essential for a TSTO spaceplane and why a ballon will not do anything much for it.
But still its a really difficult and expensive proposal to develop an operational TSTO spaceplane that reaches LEO at the least. Whiteknight and spaceship one never actually made it to LEO nor are they able to. So Rutan will have to design something a lot more powerful (and expensive) if he wishes LEO capability.
Yeah conformity, the worst bit of the modern western civilisation. It is steamrolling the actual indigenous western cultures to make way for mass consumerism.
These supermodels are a prime example of this. Heroin Chic as it is called mainly as these supermodels are regular abusers and not for its high just so that they can loose weight.
Thankfully there appears to be a form of modest rebellion in the use of these models. It seems that people have started not to buy any products so endorsed and prefer more homely type people to promote goods. And in the streets there are now a lot of shops that are for people who do not meet these "model" standards. And with the big chains taking notice its a good thing. (Especially for me who is not a light thing at all).
Still rampant consumerism prefers standard sizes so that they can sell more and make more profit. Lets go to Mars and not have this or at least allow another culture to be created so enriching humanity.