New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and MarsNews.com

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Announcement: This forum is accepting new registrations via email. Please see Recruiting Topic for additional information. Write newmarsmember[at_symbol]gmail.com.
  1. Index
  2. » Search
  3. » Posts by BWhite

#976 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-02 11:54:59

Here is the biggest chicken, IMHO. Actually its a goose. :;):

America's prosperity since the end of WW2 very much rested upon the success of the so-called middle classes, the vast middle of the bell curve of total income and wealth distribution. In recent years US consumer spending has drievn the world economy.

Under Clinton, the concentration of wealth & income began, began to change the bell curve into one where a vanishingly small fraction of society controls essentially all of the meaningful wealth. This process began under Clinton yet ahs been supercharged under Bush.

Warren Buffet (hardly a commie stooge) has called this the "sharecropper society"  where the elite cronies from Yale, Harvard et. al. consist of 0.5% of the population and control 99.5% of the wealth.

Karl Rove's political masterstroke was to unite the lower classes (using gay baiting, race baiting and Bible thumping) with the uber-rich to begin the destruction of the American middle class.

But that goose will come home to roost since it was middle class spending that has been driving the American economic engine. And Bush has just killed the goose that was laying golden eggs and served it as supper to his rich cronies.

It will take a few years before all the consequences are seen, but we will be paying for this current deficit and massive reverse Robin Hood event for generations. 


= = =

Here is the litmus test. How many paychecks can your family afford to miss before genuine poverty strikes?

We will increasingly see a tiny, tiny class of uber-wealthy that owns everything. Everyone else will be those who cannot afford to miss a single paycheck. And unless you attended Yale and were in the right clubs, forget about joining the upper class.

Oh, and to balance the budget deficit? Cut social security benefits. Seize power and steal the pension plan. Typical corporate raider mentality.  :;):



Edited By BWhite on 1115056678

#977 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-01 23:17:45

In other news, the war in Iraq was won two years a

#978 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-01 18:08:05

I just hate to see the scientific method prostituted and hijacked in the name of politics. To me, that's a subtle form of book-burning and could lead to just as much trouble in the end.   :bars:

I agree 100% with this.  big_smile

I also believe that about 50% of those voting for Bush in 2004 voters believe the world is 6000 years old and less than 2% of Kerry voters believe that.



Edited By BWhite on 1114992508

#979 Re: Human missions » Good news about Griffin - Maybe change is coming » 2005-05-01 14:24:23

The goal of their presentation was to persuade the roadmap committee the sooner they involved the private sector in the development of lunar bases, the more effective and permanent that exploration effort would become.

As Tumlinson told Space Watch, the idea was not to "spend our upfront money on pure science, but instead work on frontier-enabling activities that allow us to live and operate on the moon more cheaply." He added, "In the long run, you're going to get a ton more science because it's going to be more economical to keep people on the moon."

As I've said, CEV and VSE are about building the pieces to give everyone what they want. It why we need to go to the moon first.

Told ya to be patient.  big_smile

CEV built to ride Delta IV is busy work that goes sideways not forward. Kliper riding on Zenit is equally as capable at 1/3 the price.

5 segment RSRM plus LH2 upper stages for cargo, however, can compete with the Russians on price.

#980 Re: Not So Free Chat » Fate and happiness » 2005-05-01 10:25:21

(because of the words "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in the Constitution)

Those words are technically from the Declaration of Independence, and are a bastardization of "life, liberty, and PROPERTY" which, I believe, was the original formulation by Locke.

Some say Jefferson knew EXACTLY what he was doing.  :;):

#981 Re: Not So Free Chat » May 1st ("May Day") Traditions » 2005-05-01 10:24:26

In France, on 1st of May, tradition is to present (girl)friends with lilies of the valley, then to go demonstrate with trade unions.

Ah! It is all so clear to me, now.

#982 Re: Human missions » Good news about Griffin - Maybe change is coming » 2005-05-01 10:23:09

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=200 … 6240r]Link

For example, since the early 1980s, the National Space Society, headquartered in Washington, has run an annual event, dubbed the International Space Development Conference, in which the organization tries to bring together industry experts, scientists and space advocates to discuss methods for encouraging the exploration of space.

In all those years, NASA has never been a willing participant.

This year, however, the conference, scheduled from May 19-22 in Arlington, Va., is being sponsored by NASA, with the agency even running its own track of speakers. In fact, it was Steidle, now associate administrator for exploration systems, who helped encourage the sponsorship.

As George Whitesides, the society's executive director, told UPI's Space Watch, "The fact that Admiral Steidle said he would speak at the conference very early on I think is a large ... reason why we've gotten so many great speakers this year."

and this:

There also was the experience of Rick Tumlinson, co-founder of Space Frontier Foundation in Nyack, N.Y. Over the decades Tumlinson has been known as a strong critic of NASA. As he said in testimony before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation on Oct. 29, 2003, the agency "is bloated, self-preservation-oriented and is spending its time wasting billions of our tax dollars ... The agency and its encrustation of existing contractors need to be totally re-vamped."

Despite criticisms such as this, NASA's lunar-exploration roadmap committee -- co-chaired by Steidle and part of his exploration directorate -- asked Tumlinson to put together a panel presentation for a March 30-31 committee meeting in College Park, Md.

* * *

The presentations lasted almost three hours, including a long and vigorous question-and-answer session. At its completion, Steidle took the microphone and asked Tumlinson to keep his panel together so it could make further recommendations on commercial lunar-surface activities. Furthermore, Steidle wanted the panel to report directly to him.

"We were stunned," Tumlinson remembered.

One warm day does not a summer make, but its a start. . .

#983 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Interplanetary supply infrastructure - Cyclers vs. one way capsules » 2005-05-01 09:01:23

Early on, giant bags of MiracleGro would be useful. Those could bounce.  :;):

Okay, in the longer run, harvesting CHONs is the only way to go however a few dozen tons of well formulated plant food gets your greenhouses off and running. Especially if ALL the CHONs are captured and fed back into the gardens, supplemented of course with easily obtain Marsian water and CO2.



Edited By BWhite on 1114960223

#984 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-01 07:39:42

Don't forget, guys. A great many in the GOP intend to slash funding for Earth sensing satellites (the tools we need to investigate the true causes of global warming) because "everyone knows" global warming is a hoax.

Unless of course you are a Frog loving liberal liar.

cool

= = =

GOP talking point? We can't be sure about global warming.

GOP policy? Slash funding for the tools needed to make sure.



Edited By BWhite on 1114954875

#985 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-01 06:16:29

Though [John] Bolton supported the Vietnam War, he declined to enter combat duty, instead enlisting in the National Guard and attending law school after his 1970 graduation. "I confess I had no desire to die in a Southeast Asian rice paddy," Bolton wrote of his decision in the 25th reunion book. "I considered the war in Vietnam already lost."

Today, will he extend that same privilege to those who do not wish to go to Iraq?

http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=29455]Link

Verbally vocal in support of the war, but unwilling to go himself. Typical for the current leadership in DC.



Edited By BWhite on 1114949893

#986 Re: Not So Free Chat » Fate and happiness » 2005-04-30 16:12:21

Victor Frankl has written that we often cannot control what happens to us but we can always control our attitude towards what happens to us, our "stance" towards life.

As a concentration camp prisoner, Frankl would sometimes counsel the guards and provide them useful pyschological assistance.



Edited By BWhite on 1114899162

#987 Re: Interplanetary transportation » New article » 2005-04-29 16:10:06

Buzz Aldrin is also not someone I reguard as being much more space savvy then any of us, he was mainly a pilot if memory serves.

Buzz earned an Sc.D in Aerospace Engineering from MIT in 1963 or so.  His papers on the topic of rendezvous earned him the nickname "Dr. Rendezvous."  Since his Apollo days he's been a bit of a space visionary; his ideas about space transportation range from zany to pragmatic.

If Norman Mailer can be believed - - From: Of a Fire on the Moon - - [Buzz Aldrin] "had the reputation of being the best physicist and engineer among the astronauts" page 24



Edited By BWhite on 1114812646

#988 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-04-29 14:48:57

LO

But if we really want to be intellectualy honest, really want to be scientific about this, we need to realise that the planet's climate is far more complex than a simple man spew filth, planet get warm mechanism.

Sorry, but this side of Atlantic, we piss of laughter when ordinary people start giving lessons of scientific attitude to scientists.

:up:

#990 Re: Human missions » Is this advertising? - NASA to offer website sponsorships » 2005-04-27 16:20:23

My only comment is if the media rights are sold I really hope the guy one fear factor doesn’t present the footage. I really have that show. I can just picture him now, challenging the astronauts to some exercise competition aboard the space shuttle. Come on, you can do it come on. It would make me change the channel.

Actually my idea is that NASA offer the video feed pretty much "as is" - - take it or leave it.



Edited By BWhite on 1114640466

#991 Re: Human missions » Is this advertising? - NASA to offer website sponsorships » 2005-04-27 12:21:27

Yup! big_smile

This was the link I posted yesterday at 14:33.

Popular culture is shaped by billion dollar behemoths. A few space nuts (no offense, dude) saying space is cool is like a candle in a maelstrom.

#993 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-04-27 06:05:36

The Family Research Council`s senior writer, Steven Schwartz, appeared on National Public Radio at the time and explained the value, even the necessity, of the filibuster.

"The Senate," he said, "is not a majoritarian institution, like the House of Representatives is.  It is a deliberative body, and it`s got a number of checks and balances built into our government. The filibuster is one of those checks in which a majority cannot just sheerly force its will, even if they have a majority of votes in some cases. That`s why there are things like filibusters, and other things that give minorities in the Senate some power to slow things up, to hold things up, and let things be aired properly."

See link above.



Edited By BWhite on 1114603558

#994 Re: Human missions » Is this advertising? - NASA to offer website sponsorships » 2005-04-27 05:43:20

As you noted; much was said in the Aldridge Commission but without a means to make change or to follow though with the reports stated areas in need of change within Nasa. This must either be passed by law or come from a directive of the president.

Exactly. Congress is the actor here, not NASA. Congress tells NASA "why" it exists and how its supposed to do its job.

As citizens we have the inalienable right to tell Congress what we think they should do.



Edited By BWhite on 1114602252

#995 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-04-27 05:32:56

Bush is unhappy that the judicial nomination of Griffin is being filibustered.

Griffin's father http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_ne … f.html]led a filibuster against appointing Abe Fortas to the Supreme Court.

Pot, meet kettle. big_smile

= = =

Seven years ago the GOP filibustered an ambassador because he was gay:

The Family Research Council`s senior writer, Steven Schwartz, appeared on National Public Radio at the time and explained the value, even the necessity, of the filibuster.

"The Senate," he said, "is not a majoritarian institution, like the House of Representatives is.  It is a deliberative body, and it`s got a number of checks and balances built into our government.  The filibuster is one of those checks in which a majority cannot just sheerly force its will, even if they have a majority of votes in some cases.  That`s why there are things like filibusters, and other things that give minorities in the Senate some power to slow things up, to hold things up, and let things be aired properly."

Frist is pulling an unprincipled power play - - pure and simple.

= = =

Bush is scheduled to speak at the Calvin College graduation. A religious institution sympathetic to his politics, you might think.

But perhaps not:

Kate Bowman, the student activities coordinator at the college, e-mailed to say: "Many of us do not believe that Calvin's graduation ceremony is the proper forum for a partisan political address, particularly from such a divisive and controversial figure. . . .

"Many of us believe that his actions since taking office contradict the teachings of the Gospel, and though we love President Bush as our brother as we are called to love all (even our enemies), we profoundly disagree with his appeals to Christianity to support his own political aims."

Bowman reports: "There is a lively and thoughtful discussion happening on our in-house faculty listserv at the moment around the issue of Bush's visit. Currently the hot topic is how protest should be approached at this event. People want to be respectful without appearing to give a stamp of approval to the actions of the administration."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … .html]WaPo link



Edited By BWhite on 1114602522

#996 Re: Human missions » Is this advertising? - NASA to offer website sponsorships » 2005-04-26 17:06:01

we would now have government actions being determined for media content

How is this different that asking Gallup pollsters what to do?

Think of this media idea as a giant barometer of public opinion. =IF= we cannot raise $10 billion or $12 billion this way maybe NASA's return to the Moon lacks a broad base of public support.

If so, why are we doing it? - - Return to the Moon that is.

= = = =

Let's take this a step further- the media groups buy their ownership- or even ONE person buys it. Fine, that group or groups are given media rights and redistribution control. So they start charging pay-per view for Moon Landing and NASA updates.

If this happened it meant Congress and the space advocacy community played their hand poorly. And it could only happen if  80% of the media executives concluded the public didn't give a bleep about space exploration.

= = =

In fact, networks are fufilling their public service commitment (part of their charter with the public) to cover national events and report on the people, places, and times that affect the nation.

This is precisely the "problem" the Aldridge Commission recognizes. Public service media is "boring" - - think high school health class. Its boring because the best media talent cannot make money at doing it.

If its boring, folks will tune it out.

How do we push space exploration though the media maelstrom we all live in and make it part of the culture?

= = =

Dosen't this system encourage a bias to report and spin on space exploration in a positive manner, which in essence is a violation of the public trust and anthema to an infomred electorate that depends on a free press to make decisons?

Methinks this horse has long fled the barn. Today, our leaders make TV ads with actors who pretend to be news people. That genie has already escaped. What about US tax dollars being spent for promoting social security reform?

With my plan, we are being (1) candid and honest about what we are doing; and (2) doing it for a noble purpose.

Going back to Taylor Dinerman. Why do we do this? In part to encourage kids to study math and science. With seriousness and diligence. Is that an improper purpose?

= = =

If Congress and NASA decline this idea, why couldn't some space enthused billionaire give Roskosmos a call? Maybe that is a "novel" idea.



Edited By BWhite on 1114601385

#997 Re: Human missions » Is this advertising? - NASA to offer website sponsorships » 2005-04-26 17:03:53

The Aldridge Commission wrote this:

"The entire nation, indeed the world, will be watching as we explore new frontiers and answer profound questions on our journey into space. In fact, public participation is critical to sustaining the space exploration vision. [T]he Commission believes a new model is needed to expand the role of space exploration in our culture. Robust marketing, advertising, and recruitment campaigns that attract and hold the attention of the American public should be created and implemented."

Okay, how do we do that?

Do we spend tax dollars to buy TV ads?

Check out this http://spacepragmatism.blogspot.com/200 … .html]link:

During the 21st National Space Symposium, Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson asked Deputy Rear Admiral Craig Steidle, USN, NASA Associate Administrator for Exploration Systems why NASA wasn't in prime time. A video, designed to sum up the Vision for Exploration in 30 seconds, was shown during the panel on said Vision. It was a good video. So again we ask, why isn't it being shown during American Idol?

If its going to be the same old same old NASA, why bother?

= = =

I believe http://www.thespacereview.com/article/272/1]Taylor Dinerman is darn close to spot on with this essay. (Me? I'd change the tone somewhat since hip-hop may not be the best example yet popular culture in general is not conducive to buildign support for space exploration.)

Unless we give space exploration some firepower to survive in the modern media maelstrom, a few space geeks will care about the VSE and every one else will be worried about Brittany Spears' pregnancy.

The US has an urgent need to begin educating thousands of new men and women to replace the superbly-trained people who joined the industry, inspired by Sputnik and the challenge of Apollo to become part of the great adventure.

In the face of this need, there is a counterforce so powerful and so insidious that most commission members and industry leaders prefer to ignore it. Popular culture, in sports and entertainment, is a business that is roughly as big as the aerospace industry. It exerts massive levels of negative energy, especially on young people, which overwhelms the minuscule attempts by the aerospace and high-tech industries to get kids to do the hard work to prepare themselves to become true experts in the STEM area.



Edited By BWhite on 1114557750

#998 Re: Human missions » Is this advertising? - NASA to offer website sponsorships » 2005-04-26 13:00:23

Yet you are suggesting that the actions of a public agency can be sold for the benefit of who? The very actions the public agency undertakes is for the public in which it serves, yet you would have that agency limit access to the work done for the benefit of the public with the rationale that it is for the publics benefit?

Who benefits?

The taxpayers since NASA can now do more with less tax money.

Give away the media rights and the major networks earn their advertising dollars by "free riding" on the federal expenditures.



Edited By BWhite on 1114542073

#999 Re: Human missions » Is this advertising? - NASA to offer website sponsorships » 2005-04-26 12:13:14

:laugh:

You're a yankee who figured out how to sell his own rights!

A government agency working for the public trust, who denies access to their actions on the basis of funding is a violation of the freedom of information act, and is probably violating the first amendment in some arcane way.

Should we permit logging of federal forests without charging a fee? Drilling for oil in protected federal lands without the Treasury being compensated? Those media rights are VALUEABLE and you want to give them away for free?

Press releases (text only); limited still photos; progress reports etc. . . are all released in real time in a format that is not easily commerically exploited.

Some geekazoid reads the mission updates in a drone-like voice. Okay that is free public domain, in real time.

First Amendment solved.

= = =

The current majors unite and boycott? After all, this is a Prisoner's Dilemma variant we are playing.

Some billionaire space enthusiast forms a new network and buys the rights. One defects, they all must defect.

= = =

Also, Congress can enact this with total transparency.

= = =

Legal challenges? The networks would get clobbered in the court of public opinion. CBS wants the taxpayers to pay NASA more so they don't have to?



Edited By BWhite on 1114539520

#1000 Re: Human missions » Is this advertising? - NASA to offer website sponsorships » 2005-04-26 11:46:07

Congress says, NASA & VSE media feeds (can you say streaming virtual reality) are available to ANY network that pays a pro rata share of X billion dollars.

No pay, no programming.

If FOX says "Yes" and CNN says "No" then Bill O'Reilly becomes totally insufferable on this issue. tongue

Once a few networks come on board, they have "sunk costs" they need to recover and we have created a dollar auction where each network has prestige at stake if they fail to garner the highest ratings.

Voila!

The VSE is marketed to the American people and revenue flows into the Treasury rather than out of the Treasury.

= = =

Offer the rights for $4 billion IF only one network signs up. $5.5 if two, $7 if three and $10 if five networks - - FOX CNN NBC ABC CBS.

No one can risk letting a competitor get exclusive rights for $4 billion so they all bid.



Edited By BWhite on 1114537720

  1. Index
  2. » Search
  3. » Posts by BWhite

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB