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#951 Re: Human missions » Post central for information on CEV III - Continued from previous » 2005-05-03 20:30:28
A reuseable system doesn't make sense unless you really can make use of it and need it. If we're only sending a few manned missions a year, and no RLV on the Earth end or fuel supply on the Lunar end exsists, then you are still having to pay too much for your rocket fuel since it has to be launched on a big expendable. The cost for your rocket fuel will be so large compared to the cost of your vehicle, that you won't save any money, but you will wind up mortally crippling the performance of each mission.
Methane to L1?
My favorite rocket. 5 segment RSRM with an RL-10 cluster (or RL-60) and a giant tank of methane. Direct shot - - do not circularize your orbit, do not carry crew, do not collect $200.
Florida (or even the lovely island of Grenada) direct to L1.
Lunar LOX to L1 and there you go.
Fuel City. Check the oil and change the wiper blades and you are good to go.
#952 Re: Human missions » Post central for information on CEV III - Continued from previous » 2005-05-03 20:19:04
Lunar LOX is a no-brainer.
Home Depot grade reflective mylar (well not exactly) and a hot box will extract lunar LOX quite easily.
Lunar H20? Possibly NEVER.
Build an automated L1 fuel depot and accumulate Terran methane and lunar LOX. That is where you switch from the E-line (Earth) to the M-line (Moon).
Heck build a re-useable lander and you could do it with Soyuz & Shenzou and skip CEV altogether.
I smell a plot.
Edited By BWhite on 1115173214
#953 Re: Human missions » Is this advertising? - NASA to offer website sponsorships » 2005-05-03 20:04:27
I think the media plan you propose is better suited for a completely private venture that looks to orbit people, not get NASA to the Moon and beyond. People would tune in for that.
Heh! 
Nathan Gillespie thinks so also. 
= = =
What evidence can you sight that demonstrates media is capable of sustaining a long-term media campagain that will engender the neccessary support for a viable human space exploration program?
Who else is talking about this? Dude, its a start. Nothing more.
Edited By BWhite on 1115172573
#954 Re: Human missions » Post central for information on CEV III - Continued from previous » 2005-05-03 16:59:30
The propulsion module, transit module, and Lunar Access Module should all be reusable, a parked in a suitable orbit. That way the only thing we have to launch for each early lunar mission is the CEV
capsule, and a disposable fuel module of variable sizes for various missions. That way we can land multiple times in a single go if we choose to. What remains is equipment for use on the Lunar surface. Perhapes it can be stored in compartments on the side of the transit module.
:up: :up:
Start the re-useable concept where it is easiest - - lunar surface to somewhere (L1 is obvious but may not be best) - - not where it is hardest, Earth to LEO.
Edited By BWhite on 1115161190
#955 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-03 15:44:58
Schiavo redux
http://www.click2houston.com/news/44437 … .html]Will this get the same press?
Community activist Quanell X represented Knya's parents, who met for a second time with hospital officials. He said doctors are still planning to stop care for Knya the day after Mother's Day.
#956 Re: Human missions » Post central for information on CEV III - Continued from previous » 2005-05-03 15:38:55
Someone posted, elsewhere, that Lockmart's version weighs in at 40 MT. 40MT? GCNRevenger, we will need that fully tricked out Delta IV. GEM solids, Li tankage, slushy H2 - - all the bells and whistles.
If you read the Popular Mechanics article you will see that they plan to launch the lifting body seperatly from the mission module and propulsion stage. And together they weigh 40 MT. So two Delta-4 heavy's or two Atlas 5 Medium are enough.
Designing a re-useable lunar descent/ascent module and finding a way to park it somewhere more or less stable (L1?) still seems like a good idea to me.
Zubrin's cab idea - - mate the CEV to an unpressurized lunar module and set the whole thing done on the surface strikes me as a good idea also. This way the lunar module need not have any living accomodations at all.
#957 Re: Not So Free Chat » top 99 games worldwide - which do YOU rate? » 2005-05-03 14:42:09
My four year old would vote for Need4Speed Hot Pursuit 2.
Every time we see a police car, he asks "Will we get busted, daddy?"
#958 Re: Human missions » Post central for information on CEV III - Continued from previous » 2005-05-03 14:40:20
Someone posted, elsewhere, that Lockmart's version weighs in at 40 MT. 40MT? GCNRevenger, we will need that fully tricked out Delta IV. GEM solids, Li tankage, slushy H2 - - all the bells and whistles.
#959 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-03 13:08:43
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/BushSaudi/main.asp]W & Saudi cartoons
--Cindy
Click through to the end and there is a home page with plenty more great cartoons on lots of subjects.
Charles and Camilla, for example.
#960 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-03 13:01:49
In other news, the recent enthusiasm for blending religion and society apparently http://www.abanet.org/journal/ereport/a … l]excludes Wiccans.
#961 Re: Human missions » Is this advertising? - NASA to offer website sponsorships » 2005-05-03 12:57:13
My current abstract for my ISDC paper on this subject.
ABSTRACT:
The Aldridge Commission has called for vigorous efforts to infuse space exploration into our day-to-day culture. Yet for better or worse, American popular culture is subject to considerable influence from the marketing campaigns of multi-billion dollar media behemoths. These purveyors of popular culture are jealous about consumers attention since commercial success or failure often rests upon whatever a fickle popular culture defines as "cool." Therefore, unless these media and marketing giants are cajoled, enticed or coerced into supporting space exploration, those same entities will undermine public support for space exploration through their well funded efforts to direct public attention towards those topics and subjects that are amenable to commercial exploitation. If space exploration is to become intertwined with our day-to-day culture, this reality must be accomodated and perhaps exploited. The paper proposes one media strategy designed to harness the profit seeking motivations of America's television networks and direct those motivations towards enhancing the visibility and stature of space exploration within our society.
Based on my personal standing policy, any New Mars registered user who finds me at ISDC and says "Hi!" will be entitled to a basic draft beer (or equal) at my expense.
The downside? You have to listen to my ranting, at least until your beer is finished. :;):
= = =
clark? I owe him drinks from before. . .
Edited By BWhite on 1115146668
#962 Re: Terraformation » Provide the Moon with atmosphere - oxygen one » 2005-05-03 11:43:44
*I'm sure you're aware that the Moon's surface gravity is only 0.17? Good luck with attempts at maintaining an atmosphere there.
--Cindy
Atmosphere? How about some mood candles and new curtains?
[This post will auto-edit to something less trollish within 4 hours]
#963 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-03 11:03:56
Okay then, we need to train a nation-building force.
Agreed.
Which only makes sense if we're going to use it.
Pre-Bush the GOP hated the idea of nation building, right?
#964 Re: Human missions » Post central for information on CEV III - Continued from previous » 2005-05-03 09:33:26
Over at Rand Simberg's site someone (not me) posted a great comment on the Lockheed CEV:
Its Kliper-iffic!
#965 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-03 09:31:20
The common thread? We deployed too little to Iraq.
Too few troops without proper training.
Not exactly. The common thread is we have troops trained and equipped for one mission being expected to carry out another. Our army kills people and blows stuff up, and they do it exceptionally well. They aren't meant to guard borders, police cities, or build democracies.
More troops wouldn't be addressing the problem, it would be the same as deploying the First Armored Division to New York City to stop muggings, then complain wildly when someone gets run over by an Abrams. We need occupiers, a force trained and equipped to maintain order, hunt and find guerrillas, and carry out any and all administrative functions on a national or local level for as long as is required. It's a very different mission.
I'll not go into greater detail right now as it would be somewhat redundant and it's time for lunch.
Pax
Good mid-course correction. :up:
Okay then, we need to train a nation-building force.
Agreed.
#966 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-03 08:53:46
From the NY Times:
Interviews with more than two dozen [military] recruiters in 10 states hint at the extent of their concern, if not the exact scope of the transgressions. Several spoke of concealing mental-health histories and police records. They described falsified documents, wallet-size cheat sheets slipped to applicants before the military's aptitude test and commanding officers who look the other way. And they voiced doubts about the quality of some troops destined for the front lines.
#967 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-03 08:37:16
Yup. There is NO cover up at Abu Ghraib. None.
For the record, just what is it exactly that you're suggesting? Is this a CIA/CentCom/Prison commandant authorized it and is being protected or is it a George Bush, via Rumsfeld personally ordered this?
One is in the realm of possibility, though on the periphery. The other is firmly in tinfoil-hat land.
Same cover up as with the Italian shooting. Admit "exhausted, inexperienced and stressed" and the Italians would be content. But no, we can allow no criticism, admit no error.
Is Lyndie England guilty and deserve prison? Absolutely.
Should "the buck" stop with her? Absolutely not.
At a minimum, higher ups at Abu Ghraib were incompetent. By failing to dig this out in a transparent fashion the US undermines its own credibility. At a minimum, insufficent poorly trained units were put in charge at Abu Ghraib. Openly demote some generals over that error in judgment and there is less smell of a cover up.
By refusing to admit error in the Italian shooting we alienate a previously loyal ally.
This administration has a need to be seen as infallible and that is a very bad thing.
= = =
The big chicken coming home to roost is that Iraq had proven to be a much larger can of worms that we were promised before regime change and now those in poewr are doing everything possible to evade responsibility for errors in judgment.
= = =
The common thread? We deployed too little to Iraq.
Too few troops without proper training.
Edited By BWhite on 1115131502
#968 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-03 07:59:37
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … ml]England pleads guilty:
Still, in the end England negotiated a plea. But those careful arrangements almost went awry in the stark military courtroom Monday when a skeptical Army judge questioned her admission of guilt.
In military law, a judge cannot accept a defendant's guilty plea without assurance that the plea is true.
England told the judge, Col. James L. Pohl, that she was sent to Iraq as a records clerk with the 372nd Military Police Company, based in Cumberland, Md., and had no training as a prison guard when the Army assigned her to work at Baghdad's toughest prison. When Pohl asked the defendant why she posed for the leash picture, she responded that she had been told to do so by a superior.
"Did you question this procedure?" the judge asked.
"I assumed it was okay," England replied, "because he was an MP [a military police soldier], he had the corrections-officer background. He was older than me."
Pohl appeared troubled by her answer, noting that she had to have knowledge that her actions were wrong to be legally culpable. He told prosecutors that "it's going to be difficult to make a photograph of a lawful act into a crime."
At this, lawyers on both sides requested an hour's recess. When they returned, England had changed her tone and her explanation, saying she knew at the time that use of the leash "was not only morally wrong but legally wrong." She continued, "I had a choice, but I chose what my friends wanted me to do."
Heh! Her testimony was sanitized, to protect the higher ups.
"Told to do so by a superior. . ."
Ooops. "Judge we need an hour recess"
Then. . .
""I had a choice, but I chose what my friends wanted me to do."
Yup. There is NO cover up at Abu Ghraib. None. ???
Edited By BWhite on 1115128817
#969 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-03 07:08:50
Yup. Launch a pre-emptive class war and denounce anyone who calls him on it as "playing the class card"
But Bush is resolute about protecting the interests of the truly rich by making sure that any taxes on wealth are ruled out of the game from the beginning. The Social Security cuts he is proposing for the wealthy are a pittance compared with the benefits they get from his tax cuts. The president is keeping his eye on what really matters to him.
Reverse Robin-Hood.
Seize power and loot the pension plan.
#970 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-02 15:13:17
http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story. … 005]Stress, inexperience & fatigue
If the US had put these three words in the report, would the Italians have signed it?
Edited By BWhite on 1115068566
#971 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-02 15:00:28
Property rights begin with government. No government? Private property is impossible.
Well crafted regulations are like oil in an engine. Why?
Legal recourse.
In the 3rd world, pigs are sold one at a time and the buyer looks each in the mouth. In Chicago's trading pits millions of pigs can be sold by waving one's finger.
Why? Strong government and well developed transparent law.
= = =
Without strong transparent regulation, enforced with utter neutrality, our economy would grind to a halt like an engine that lost its oil.
Of course, the confidence men would prefer that these rules be relaxed, a situation that is all the better to swindle others.
Edited By BWhite on 1115067770
#972 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-02 14:26:49
Name a better place for doing business. I dare you.
What would that prove?
If a business cannot succeed in the most pro-business environment on the planet, maybe Mr/Ms Business Owner needs to look in the mirror rather than blame Washington.
This "criticize the government" mindset is too often a smokescreen for some reverse Robin Hood operations.
= = =
"Everyone" knows business is hamstrung by dumb regulations but when we try to get particular, the situation always gets more complicated and the closer we look the less stupid the regulations often become.
= = =
Good regulations are good. Bad regulations are bad.
Knowing which are which is hard.
I recall our libertarian friend Mundaka all gleeful because the jerk who smashed into his car and broke his Dobson telescope was in violation of mandatory auto insurance laws.
Like I asked then: "How libertarian is that?"
Edited By BWhite on 1115065813
#973 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-02 13:09:00
Much business regulation exists to prevent dumping externalities on innocent by-standers.
If a Union Carbide plant has the potential to release poison gas and kills hundreds or thousands of people in a nearby residences is it unreasonable to "regulate them" - - today one of Tom Delay's pet projects is to transfer to the federal government liiability for cleaning ground water contaminated with MBTE.
Of course, the pro busines position is that if some silly sharecroppers get cancer that's just "too bad so sad" - - if God didn't want you to suffer you wouldn't have been born poor.
#974 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-02 12:50:47
Sure, there are worse places for doing business.
Heh!
Name a better place for doing business. I dare you.
= = =
Good business regulation is good. Bad business regulation is bad. Telling the difference can be difficult.
But we are the least regulated large economy in the world. Much of the "regulation bashing" is a trick for more money for the elite and less money for everyone else.
Edited By BWhite on 1115060076
#975 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri IV - Continued from previous » 2005-05-02 12:22:38
I find the classic liberal-Democrat party "answer" to be unacceptable as well. I just do not want either party - - donkeys or elephants - - having unfettered control.
Is John Kerry one of the "elite" - - damn straight.
= = =
The class card? Bush is the one who advocates pre-emptive war, right?
What better then launch a massive reverse Robin Hood class war assault and then loudly accuse your opponents of playing the "class war" card?
Newt Gringrich developed this strategy. Choose a plan. Then loudly accuse your opponent of doing exactly what you intend. Then execute the plan.
Scream "no class war" then launch a class war. :;):
= = =
Ah, the "food stamps for vodka" welfare queen. Reagan's masterstroke of frame-shopping and BS public relations.
Great example. To answer the question, not long. Why? Pay is limited not only by greed of those above me in the chain but by burdens unnecesarrily placed by government. Further, what pay I do get is pilfered to pay for services I neither need nor desire, yet the very act of having to pay for them increases the odds I may need them.
Some sleazy mother trades $1000 in food stamps for vodka. Everyone goes ape-shit. Lets bail out the airlines, oil companies whatever for billions and billions. Just bidness, got a problem with 'dat?
Regulations? What regulations? America is the least regulated business society in the world. (Except maybe for some tiny ones here or there.)
Edited By BWhite on 1115058789