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#876 Re: Terraformation » Minimal Martian Terraformed Atmospheres » 2008-01-08 07:49:13

A minimal atmosphere of 100mb CO2 would dramatically improve the economics of living on Mars, given that it would allow non-pressurised greenhouses to be used for the growth of crops.

At 250mb, humans could live in domed habitats that were only slightly pressurised with pure oxygen.  Again, this would dramatically improve the economics of living on the planet, given that the cost per square metre of habitable area would go down dramatically.  Only relatively lightweight structures would be needed to provide habitable atmospheres for cities.  At 250mb, the column density of the atmosphere would be 2/3rds Earth sea level, so cosmic ray dose should be eliminated.  The high CO2 level would also warm the planet to comfortable temperatures.

We could actually reduce the cost of living on Mars by 99% without changing the composition of the atmosphere (ie, a higher partial pressure of CO2, but low levels of O2).

#877 Re: Interplanetary transportation » >>> Why the 5-segments SRB is a NONSENSE >>> » 2008-01-07 10:19:20

No-one has said why a flinger wouldn't work.

just said that all Ares-1 arguments have (at least) the same merit to be posted in the same section smile

.

From a cost effectiveness point of view NONE of the conventional rocket vehicle concepts make very much sense.

#878 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Un- conventional ways to LEO » 2008-01-07 09:26:51

Fusion bombs that don't use a fission primer? Interesting. How do they work?

(I'd like to build one.)

No.  Fusion bombs with fission primers, but used in such a way that there are negligable radiological consequences to any member of the public.

#879 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Un- conventional ways to LEO » 2008-01-07 07:19:33

I have lost the gist of this discussion.  Are we talking about launching a rocket from a balloon on suborbital flights?  A suborbital flight is basically a cop-out.  As for using a balloon to launch rockets, we would be attempting to engineer a very complex system whose only function would be to save a little bit of mass on the lower stage of the rocket.  Lower stages can be built cheaply (a la big dumb booster).  There isn't really any economic advantage to launching from a balloon.

If we are serious about achieving large-scale access to space with present day technology, I would suggets that we reopen discussion on ground-launched nuclear powered spacecraft (Orion), using small and ultra-clean nuclear fusion bombs for propulsion.  The radioactivity released by each launch would be small, resulting in less than one death globally.  The spacecraft would mass anything from ten thousand to millions of tonnes and could carry many thousands or even millions of people into low earth orbit and beyond.

The only thing preventing the construction and use of Orion ships are political difficulties, the technical issues are more or less solved.  If you want largescale access to space, this is the way to achieve it with technology available today.

#880 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Microscopic starships » 2007-12-10 11:17:28

It may well turn out that robotics and machine intelligence are the next stage of evolution, for the simple reason that they are much more suited to the space environment and the very long timescales of interstellar travel.  As such, they would supercede us in much the same way as we superceded the amphibians that crawled from the primordial sea.

Not very pleasant on the face of it, but this sort of development would seem to be on the cards.

#881 Re: Not So Free Chat » Sudan, the Barbarian Kingdom » 2007-12-10 10:46:29

But when the Africans can't defend themselves...

Antius, you are obviously one of those 'as long as it doesn't happen to me' people. Anything can happen to other people as long as you don't get affected. You make me sick. Go to Iran. See what it's like.

If we have the power to stop a dictator killing their people, if we wield the power to stop slavery, and we don't use it, the blood is partly on our hands.

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Who will speak out for you when they come for you, eh?

No.  I simply don't think that policing the world will be succesful or in US/Western interests and I don't think the cost in money and lives justifies the end.

Do you seriously believe that the Iranian people want the US to invade their country and enforce 'regime change' upon them?  They will resent the intrusion and will resent the US for having attacked them.  Many Iranians and Americans will die in the process and the end result, likely as not, will not be pleasing or at all what you had intended or hoped for.  Invade the Iranians if you think that US national security is seriously threatened, but do not kid yourself that you are actibg in their best interests.

I do not believe that attempting to police the world against every country that elects/is inflicted with an undemocratic regime will be (a) effective and (b) in US/UK/Western interests.  In all cases, many native peoples (and US soldiers) end up dying, the US/West generally fails to achieve the sort of compliant pro-western and democratic solution that it had intended and a wave of anti-western resentment remains for decades afterwards.

#882 Re: Terraformation » Terraforming Mercury » 2007-12-07 10:18:55

The problem with para-terraforming Mercury is that the amount of solar energy it receives is massive.  It would be hard to create a structure that could survive the intense thermal roasting it receives during its long day (hot enough to melt lead) and then the shock of cold during its night.  While possibly not impossible to achive, almost all plans I have seen seek to avoid being roasted in the sun somehow.  The same issue exists for an orbital shield of some sort as well.  That close in to the sun it become difficult to deal with all the radiation (thermal and otherwise).

Not that difficult in a vacuum.  Give the glass a tint just a few atoms thick and most of the sunlight will be reflected into space.

Charged particle radiation would be more of a problem.

#883 Re: Not So Free Chat » Sudan, the Barbarian Kingdom » 2007-12-06 10:56:21

This is perhaps the biggest oil myth out there. If the west stops buying oil, the price will drop only to the point were developing countries can afford it, and the oil states will then take advantage of them. And they are a lot easier to influence socially, politically, religiously, ect than we are. Remember the Sudanese genocide is little more than Arab colonization of Africa.

Any technology that the wetst develops will be available on sale to the rest of the world.  A drop in oil price reduces Arab power rather than enhances it.

You seem to be suggesting that the west should deploy its military to protect Christianity against Islam in the third world.  Is that really a fight we want to pick?  Is it not the responsibility of the Africans to defend themselves?

Actually that comes right down to the founding principles of the Republican Party, of which I am a member, namely the Abolition of Slavery. The Sudan is one of those places in the World where slavery still exists, you have white Arabs enslaving black Africans, and you'd have us just turn our back on them as Abraham Lincoln's political opponent suggested? I think we have a moral obligation to fight slavery in Africa, particulary due to our specific history regarding that subject. I find slavery repugnant, and Sudan's threatening to whip that teacher from your country 40 times for the harmless act of allowing children to name a teddy bear "Mohammad" is an injustice and harks back to those days of slavery back in my nation's South. American's fought a war over the abolition of slavery and 600,000 Americans died to get rid of it. Before the Civil War, we've tried compromise, the Missouri Compromise, but it didn't work over the long term, we just kept on retuirning to the Issue of Slavery and it got to the point where we could not ignore it any longer.

I don't see any reason why we should have business as usual with a slave state, or why we shouldn't change its government if it has access to valuable resources such as oil. Shouldn't that resouece be the property of the people of Sudan rather than to just their "masters"? Just as we didn't continue to buy cotton from slave plantations, is the Sudan andits oil all that different? Sudan is now a Slave State, why shouldn't we abolish slavery there like we did in our own south?

But it is not our fight.  Policing the world to the extent that you suggest means devoting resources to the military on a scale that we cannot possibly maintain for more than a little while longer.

We need to take care of our people first and foremost.  They are the ones that vote for us, the ones that we have an electoral mandate for and the ones that would have to lay down their lives defending Sudan.  I simply do not see why they should be expected to sacrifice their lives and their cash for a fight that does not concern them.

The 21st centuru is going to be a time when the US is desperately short of resources and money, with a sliding economy and sliding geopolitical dominance in the face of India and china.  Maintaining dominance means first and foremost investing in new technologies that can be used to grow the economy.  Every dollar that is spent defending far away desert states which do not concern you is a dollar that you won't be able to invest in Fusion research, or the space programme or advanced rail systems or genetic engineering....etc.

The idea of trying to control the world by military force reminds me of the last days of the British empire.  By the early 1900s, it was obvious that Germany and the US would eclipsed the UK economically.  The response of Britain was unparralled military expenditure, attempting to control the world through force of arms, in order to make up for lost economic influence.  This actually hastened Britain's decline by sucking up resources that could have been invested in new technologies and new consumer products.

#884 Re: Not So Free Chat » Sudan, the Barbarian Kingdom » 2007-12-06 09:53:16

This is perhaps the biggest oil myth out there. If the west stops buying oil, the price will drop only to the point were developing countries can afford it, and the oil states will then take advantage of them. And they are a lot easier to influence socially, politically, religiously, ect than we are. Remember the Sudanese genocide is little more than Arab colonization of Africa.

Any technology that the wetst develops will be available on sale to the rest of the world.  A drop in oil price reduces Arab power rather than enhances it.

You seem to be suggesting that the west should deploy its military to protect Christianity against Islam in the third world.  Is that really a fight we want to pick?  Is it not the responsibility of the Africans to defend themselves?

#885 Re: Not So Free Chat » Sudan, the Barbarian Kingdom » 2007-12-06 06:24:29

Iran simply isn't a geopolitical threat to the US.  It is a waste of US time, lives and money to attempt to push around these desert states.

Iran controls a good chunk of the world's oil and gas reserves and much of the rest is in its neighborhood. Through its proxy terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah, Iran has destabilized the Middle East and brought endless conflict throughout the region. Iran has close alliances with Russia and China, who in turn use Iran as a proxy in their worldwide struggle with US power.

Iran's oil reserves are significant, but are only a small proportion of total Middle east reserves.  And Iranian production has already peaked, which goes some way to explaining why these people feel that they need nuclear power and why they are so desperate to keep oil prices high.

All the more reason for the wetst to develop technologies that lessen our dependance on oil.  Oil's sprinciple value is as an easily refined feedstock for transport fuels.  If most of our transport switches to electric, the price of oil will decline, the incomes of these desert states will crash and they will no longer be able to fund their supposed weapons programme.  Again, the solution needs to be technological rather than military.

#886 Re: Not So Free Chat » Sudan, the Barbarian Kingdom » 2007-12-06 02:01:33

I do not see that Putin has gone out of his way to make an enemy of the US.  The fact is that the US and Russia are geopolitical rivals.  But I could just as well ask:
'Why does the US set itself up as an adversary of China, Iran and Russia, when France, Switzerland, Netherlands, etc, seem happy to live in peace with these people?  What makes the US think that it needs to control the rest of the world by force of arms?'  'how is it that China/Japan both manage to live on good terms with Iran, Russia, etc, wheras the US is locked in a continuous cold war with the aforementioned states'?

Oh, whats with his chummery with Iran, helping it to build a nuclear reactor, it oppositions to sanctions on this country when it won't allow inspectors in to see that it is not making nuclear warheads, and not to mention that fact that Iran has made multiple death threats against the United States. Iran is like having a neighbor who says, "I'm going to kill you!" all the time. I think as a nation we should take such verbal threats seriously, and do something when it looks like Iran is trying to make good on those threats. Putin says, "never mind, they're not serious, they are interested only in peaceful uses of nuclear energy despite their multiple death threats against you country and their calling you the 'great Satan', but never mind its all talk of a mad man." Who's supporting terrorist attacks? Who made their great start as a new nation by taking American's hostage? We could end this cold war, but removing those in power who wage it, this becomes much easier now that Iraq has simmered down and our troops are positioned to accomplish this. I don't know what Putin's problem is, he complains about missile defenses in Poland. I don't see why we should respect his claim to an empire that doesn't exist any more. Poland and other East block countries are independent states able to determine their own independent foreign policy without Russia's meddling. Do they think they own the Poles or something?

Iran simply isn't a geopolitical threat to the US.  It is a waste of US time, lives and money to attempt to push around these desert states.  As I said before, US money would be better spent developing new technologies that would genuinely benefit its people and maintain economic hegemony.  US geopolitical dominance over the past 30 years has far more to do with silicon valley, developing new technologies and the overwhelming strength of the US economy, than it has to do with its military.  It is in developing new technologies and new consumer products that the US should overwhelmingly concentrate its attention.

US foreign military intervention has not generally been succesful over the past 30 years and its attempts to coersively control the rest of the world has genertaed adversaries that would otherwise have remained relatively freindly.  Iran has become a pain in the backside only in terms of the disruption it causes in Iraq.  This would not have been a problem if the US/UK had not invaded Iraq.  Zimbabwe is not a geopolitical threat to the UK.  Sudan is not a geopolitical threat to either of us.  Like I said, we should try to be on as freindly terms with the rest of the world as possible and maintain peace through example.

This does not mean ignoring genuine security threats.  The US/UK were correct to intervene when Iraq invaded Kuwait, given that genuine US interests were threatened.  But attempting to enforce regime change in Iraq, was clearly beyond our self-interest.

#887 Re: Not So Free Chat » Sudan, the Barbarian Kingdom » 2007-12-05 12:30:01

Putin is a good nationalist who is trying to do what is in the long-term interests of his people.  The overwhelmingly marxist western media try to rubbish him at every opportunity.  But the fact is that he is overwhelmingly popular amongst his people and living standards have risen rapidly under his presidency.

Why is it in the long term interests of the Russian people to live under a tyrant and be our enemy? Why is it better for the Russians to always be prepared to wage World War III with us and to point their nukes at us so we point our nukes at them? Why can't we just get along with them like we do with Japan and Germany? I figure we should just treat Russia as we treat Japan and Germany and that should be enough. We don't grant those other countries a near abroad that we allow them to treat as their defacto Empire, why should things be any different with Russia? What makes Russia so special that we have to treat it differently from Japan and German who were also at one time our enemies? I see no difference.

As for Sudan, why should we care what the insignificant rulers of this desert state try to inflict on their people within their own borders?  The only people that need to suffer their cruelty are those unfortunate enough to live in their country.  Western governments should withdraw their people, cut off aid, issue a general warning against any western travel there and generally leave the Sudanese to their own devices.  It is not our business to tell them how run their country, nor is it in our interests to risk the lives of our people in some pointless invasion and pacification activity.  The value of this desert country does not justify the effort.

Why, as a deceased associate of Ebenezer Scrooge once said, "Humanity is our business." To put it more succinctly, the world has plenty of nukes, and they are only going to spread over time, I think it is in out long term interest to eliminate those who would start wars of conquest, put the people in charge of those countries instead of their rulers. The people are the ones who are going to do the fighting up close and personal. While we have to fight pacifists and anti-war people in our own country in order to protect our freedoms, I would like to see some of those pacifists gaining influence in Sudan and Iran and having political power and deciding on their government. In order to have a peaceful world, those pacifists have to be in power in the countries that are now our enemies and adversaries. People who are interested in avoiding war will not start a war with us, and we therefore will not have to worry about that, but Iran now chants "Death to America" and their are way too many crowds of sabre rattlers in the middle east, we just have to change their politics so their pacifist/antiwar types are in power instead of the sabre-rattlers, the main problem is that our own anti-war people get in the way of that goal. If they would only sieze power in Iran and Russia, things would be great with us.

Generally, instead of attempting to force third world nations to accept our political will, western countries should minimise their dependance on the resources and people of these nations and generally involve ourselves as little as possible in their affairs.  This is more cost effective than attempting to control them through colonial rule.  If the US and Britain had invested the money required to invade and pasify Iraq in more and better electricity infrastructure and nuclear plants and had instituted an electric highway scheme, we would be well on our way to being independant of foreign oil imports and in a much more secure position than we are in now.  Instead, we are stuck with an oil economy and every single day more young men and women are added to the toll of lives that has had to be paid to maintain our oil addiction.

Yeah Antius, why don't you just switch to the alternatives? Not as easy as saying it. Your country has been taxing gasoline to the hilt, but it still runs on gasoline, I see no progress here. I don't accept the premise that we just turn our backs on large segments of humanity just because they live under dictators in third world countries. Tyranny anywhere affects freedom everywhere. If we try to learn to live with these dictators, we are always going to have to be on our guard against their attacking us, and we are going to have to devote a considerable proportion of our resources towards national defense as they will constantly seek to undermine us to increase their power. If people live in free democracies, they won't be as interested in war fighting or empire building, and I think we ought to help the process of democratization along in our own national interests rather than mind our own business like with did in the 1930s with regard to Hitler and Stalin. Dictators are an existential threat to us, so long as they exist, we democratic countries of the free world have to worry about what they might do. Deal with them on the short term if we must, but if their are opportunities to push them towards democracy we should take them. A democratic world is safer and more peaceful than an undemocratic one.

I do not see that Putin has gone out of his way to make an enemy of the US.  The fact is that the US and Russia are geopolitical rivals.  But I could just as well ask:
'Why does the US set itself up as an adversary of China, Iran and Russia, when France, Switzerland, Netherlands, etc, seem happy to live in peace with these people?  What makes the US think that it needs to control the rest of the world by force of arms?'  'how is it that China/Japan both manage to live on good terms with Iran, Russia, etc, wheras the US is locked in a continuous cold war with the aforementioned states'?

I do not think that it is the responsibility of the Western world to enforce parliamentary democracy on the rest of the world.  I also question our ability to successfully do so.  If I understand your point correctly, the western world must have absolute control over the politics of the rest of the world to prevent some rogue state from aquiring nukes and smuggling them into our cities.  By that line of logic, US intervention in Iraq, Korea and Vietnam must have made the world a much safer place.

I do not suggest that we should ignore blatant security threats, but to attempt to control every corner of the world that happens to have a dictatorial government would be impossible and would actually generate adversaries that would otherwise not have become a threat to US interests.  It is like taking a shotgun into a swamp rather puting up mosquito nets.

If the past 30 years has taught us anything, it should be that the western nations generally and the US in particular, simply do not have the power to control the internal affairs of the rest of the world.  Trying to do that requires that we be continuously ready for war, pumping vast amounts of resources into weaponry and our miltary and be prepared to sacrifice tens of thousands of lives for the 'freedom' of people in irelevant far away lands, who will not appreciate our intervention anyhow.  All of this draws resources away from worthy projects at home, which could genuinely improve US/British living standards.

As for electrically powering transport in the UK/Rest or the world, I would argue that sort of systems neccesary, require massive government investment or at least government coordination of private investment in order to take off.  You also have to have the right idea in the first place.  The US government is presently pumping millions of dollars into developmnet of fuel cell vehicles and hydrogen refuelling infrastructure which will niever be economic.

#888 Re: Not So Free Chat » Sudan, the Barbarian Kingdom » 2007-12-05 06:33:10

Putin is a good nationalist who is trying to do what is in the long-term interests of his people.  The overwhelmingly marxist western media try to rubbish him at every opportunity.  But the fact is that he is overwhelmingly popular amongst his people and living standards have risen rapidly under his presidency.

As for Sudan, why should we care what the insignificant rulers of this desert state try to inflict on their people within their own borders?  The only people that need to suffer their cruelty are those unfortunate enough to live in their country.  Western governments should withdraw their people, cut off aid, issue a general warning against any western travel there and generally leave the Sudanese to their own devices.  It is not our business to tell them how run their country, nor is it in our interests to risk the lives of our people in some pointless invasion and pacification activity.  The value of this desert country does not justify the effort.

Generally, instead of attempting to force third world nations to accept our political will, western countries should minimise their dependance on the resources and people of these nations and generally involve ourselves as little as possible in their affairs.  This is more cost effective than attempting to control them through colonial rule.  If the US and Britain had invested the money required to invade and pasify Iraq in more and better electricity infrastructure and nuclear plants and had instituted an electric highway scheme, we would be well on our way to being independant of foreign oil imports and in a much more secure position than we are in now.  Instead, we are stuck with an oil economy and every single day more young men and women are added to the toll of lives that has had to be paid to maintain our oil addiction.

#889 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Microscopic starships » 2007-12-04 07:42:44

There has been much speculation as to how interstellar travel will eventually take place.  Faster than light travel looks impossible on the basis of all science that we presently understand.  Even exotic sublight transportation systems such as anti-matter, bussard ramjets and dark-matter engines are difficult to foresee, given the inefficiencies in the manufacture of anti-matter, the interstellar drag imposed by hydrogen ions on a bussard ramjet and the speculative nature of dark-matter.

On this basis, it must be assumed that the fastest forseeable interstellar transport systems will be fusion, solar sail and beamed energy.  This limits transport speeds to approximately 0.1C, making manned interstellar travel very diffucult, unless we are prepared to build extremely large and expensive multi-generational spacecraft.

The other option would be to send robotic craft to other starsystems which would automatically manufacture human beings and human habitats when arriving at the target solar system.  Such a ship could be thought of as a 'seeder' ship, carrying with it only the genetic codes of its crew and the instructions on how to build suitable infrastructure on arrival.  Upon arrival, the craft would locate a small carbonaceous asteroid and manufacture a habitat, along with all of the infrastructure that the first batch of human would need.  From there, the first batch of humans could completely colonise the target star system.

On this basis, taking miniaturisation of components to its limits, a starship need be no larger than a coffee cup and there is the possibility that with radical advances in nanotechnology, it might even be microscopic.  It should therefore be possible to mass produce litterally billions of starships, colonise the entire galaxy within about 10,000 years and go on to colonise other galaxies on a timescale of a few tens of millions of years.  This could be done without humanity ever leaving the Earth as a biological entity.

#890 Re: Terraformation » Terraforming Mercury » 2007-12-02 16:28:56

On Earth, the deepest hole ever drilled was in the Kola perninsula in Northern Russia.  It went down about 15km.  The problem with drilling deep holes on Earth is that the cost of doing so increases exponentially with depth.  most drilling is associated with oil or geothermal research, so beyond a certain depth the cost is so high that it is no longer justifiable.  Thats not to say that we couldn't drill much deeper holes if we had all the money in the world and a good reason to do it.

But what the hell is the point of drilling a 200 mile deep hole on Mercury?  Never mind the fact that the temperature just a few feet below the surface is hot enough to boil water.  Mercury really is a candidate for paraterraforming.  Erect a glass greenhouse on the surface and tint the windows so that 90% of incoming light is refected back into space and you have Earth normal sunlight underneath.

A more natural approach would require an orbital sunshield or billions of tiny aluminium balloons in the upper atmosphere.  The slow rotational period would be a problem.  The planet would also need a powerful synthetic magnetic field in order to deflect the solar wind during periods of high solar activity.  Mercury's existing field is compressed all the wayy down to the surface during storm events.

#891 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Space Elevator or Scramjet? » 2007-11-29 09:51:24

There's no realistic way to get the gs down to merely tens with a mass driver. Even hundreds of gs is pushing it.

Maybe as a nationwide megastructure, barely.

For the record, here are the numbers:

For a 10 g force pressing you against the launch ring's outer wall, you will need a launch ring 1230km in radius (2470km in diameter).

100g, 123km radius.

1000g, 12.3km radius.

10000g, 1.23km radius.

I could see a 10000g mass driver being built, but beyond that is going to get real expensive, real fast.

And there's no reason to build multiple mass drivers. If you built a 10g one, you could also use it for the medium and bulk goods.

Some numbers for added clarity:

For a mass driver 100metres long and an exit speed of 10km/s, a mass driver with acceleration 50,000g is needed.

Total acceleration time = 0.02seconds.

Total energy required = 50MJ/Kg (probably closer to 60 including losses)

Total power required during acceleration = 2.5GW/Kg.

That's a lot of power pouring into a very small projectile. The odds are that it would melt within the barrel.  Transmitting that much power to the balloon using beamed propulsion would appear highly dubious to me.

#892 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Space Elevator or Scramjet? » 2007-11-29 07:16:15

The capital costs of the device are fixed - the operating costs are linearly proportional to launch volume.  One that basis, in order to minimise cost per kg launched, you want the highest throughput possible, ie, as many launches per day as you can.  Ideally, you would want to operate the device in steady-stream mode.

The higher the acceleration of the mass driver, the smaller its size and the lower its mass.  This is an important consideration in the economics of this proposal, so we would probably want the highest accelerations that we could get away with.

On the basis of what samy has calculated, it is clear that power supply imposes difficult limitations on the throughput of the device, limiting launch rates to several tonnes per day for solar powered devices.  A larger (nuclear) power supply is possible, but this will also be heavier.  On this basis I conclude that the cheapest and most efficient power supply is beamed power from a larger generator on the ground.  Power density at the rectenna on the balloon surface could be as high as several KW/m2 and the rectenna would be no more substantial than conducting tin-foil on the surfcae ofthe balloon.

Docking with the balloon to transfer payloads provides an additional complication.

#893 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » How big can a rocky planet get? » 2007-11-29 06:13:20

What about internal heat as a limiting factor for rocky planet size?

If Earth was 2 or 3 times its current makeup and size wouldn't the internal heat turn it into  a molten planet ?
Those bigger worlds should also have bigger atmospheres with more heat trapping abilities, so they won't cool like Earth has.

At some point well before 14 Earth masses of similar to earth material do we get to that?

An interesting set of points.  The habitable zone around a star would depend upon the size and properties of the planet, as well as sunlight levels.  If Earth or Venus were at Mars' distance from the sun, their thicker atmospheres would probably allow liquid water to exist in some locations.

A larger planet with more significant geothermal heating could maintain liquid oceans with little or a lot less sunlight.  It would also have a continuous stream of greenhouse gases entering its atmosphere.  Under these conditions, the habitable zone of our sun might stretch out to the asteroid belt.

#894 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potlock I » 2007-11-29 06:05:28

My own politics could probably be described as Far Right.

Leaving aside social policy, it is my belief that the principle mistakes of concurrent US administrations is a general failure to take seriously enough the importance of the US manufacturing economy and the need for investment in research and development.  To a large extent, if you can get those things right, as the Japanese clearly have, you will have a society of high income levels and low inequality, that is always on the cutting edge in terms of living standards.  Other problems such as crime, healthcare, policing, etc, will be less burdensome.

This mistake has been shared by other nations in the western world, who have witnessed declines in manufcaturing capabilities, increasing income inequality and generally declining living standards.  Whilst there are other contributing factors, the fact remains that governments across the western world appear to have lost sight of the basic need for wealth generating industries that pay good wages.

That is my two pennies worth.

#895 Re: Terraformation » Terraforming techniques to combat global warming » 2007-11-29 05:12:29

The most serious near term effects of global climate change will be changes in rainfall distribution and generally rising temperatures in large arable food producing regions.  This will result in declining yields, which could have serious implications for global food prices, given that margin between supply and demand is already tight due to water shortages, rising salinity, declining topsoils, urbanisation, etc.

#896 Re: Interplanetary transportation » China eyeing new HL - Agency Expecting approval this year » 2007-11-29 05:07:59

There appears to be some level of resentment against the Chinese programme on this board.  I get the feeling that there are a lot of people here who would like to see them fail.

I am personally happy that at least one part of humanity take the challenge and promise of the new frontier seriously.

The reality is that all space programmes are likely to find themselves in a precarious position in the second and third decades of the 21st century.  As global oil and gas production peaks, it is unlikley that that the US, China or any other nation, will have sufficient surplus budget to maintain the neccesary spending levels for high-level manned space flight.  High-minded ideas for moon bases or expeditions to mars are likely to be shelved for the foreseeable future.

#897 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Space Elevator or Scramjet? » 2007-11-29 04:33:35

There are many customers who will pay to ride a high speed train, how many people want to be accelerated at 200,000 G?

Government subsidies for high speed trains are offset by the cost of new roads or other infrastructure.

That is true.  But the device that we are proposing is only useful for launching bulk materials, so costs do need to be reasonably low: probably no greater than $100/Kg launched into low orbit.

The power supply would be by far the heaviets component.  I can think of a number of possibilities:

1) Beamed power by microwaves, with the surfcae of the balloon acting as a rectena type device;
2) A small, open cycle gas turbine;
3) A conducting tether;
4) Ultra-thin solar cells across the surfcae of the balloon;
5) a small unshielded high-temp nuclear reactor

#898 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Space Elevator or Scramjet? » 2007-11-28 09:03:54

The problem with a mass driver isn't really the air friction. You'll puncture through the thick part of the atmosphere so damn fast you won't really have time to heat up. At escape velocity you'll hit the stratosphere in a second and the mesosphere in less than 5 seconds. T+8 seconds you'll be out of the mesosphere and out of the danger zone. So if the heat shields can hold out for a mere 8 seconds, you're golden.

AFAIK air friction IS the problem. To retain an escape velocity of 11 km/sec or even an orbital velocity of 8 km/sec after passing through the atmosphere, a body initially requires far more energy and therefore speed. At these ridiculous hypersonic speeds every known material flashes into plasma. Chunks of rock or ice could survive after ablating their surface and exploding into many pieces. These pieces would have a wide range of trajectories, this would be extremely wasteful of energy and quite spectacular smile

Any object launched in this way would clearly need to be mechanically strong and protected from the heat by a thick ablative lining.

As samy pointed out, the mass driver is only likley to be useful in launching payloads that do not have fragile internal structures; ie, bulk materials such as carbon, water and metals.

A mass driver would be a potentially cheap(er) way of launching basic commodities into space that could not be derived from Lunar materials.  It is likley to be useful in the early yeras of space manufacturing, before asteroid mining is developed on a significant scale.

#899 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Space Elevator or Scramjet? » 2007-11-28 06:27:44

So to put it crudely, the higher up you go, the more air you need to displace in order to support any given mass from the balloon.  This would appear to make balloons inpractical for reaching heights above 30-40km.

The next question is: how high do we need to go and how thin does the air need to be, in order to operate a mass driver capable of launching payloads to orbital speed?  At Earth's surface it is obviously not feasible.

Would it be feasible at 32km?

Air resistance = K x air density x V(squared).

At 32km: air density = 0.013 kg/m3 (1% Earths surface).

Given that meteorites are fire balls at this altitude, it is probably safe to say that even at 30km, air resistence would create too much resistive heating for a mass driver to work.  Air resistance would melt the barrel of the electromagnetic launcher before the projectile even left the launcher.

The only way around that would be to use a camera-shutter technique.  The mass driver would be sealed and evacuated with vacuum pumps and a shutter would open microseconds before the projectile reached the end of it.

#900 Re: Terraformation » Excellant Place to Bury Our Nuclear Waste » 2007-11-20 06:47:21

Hi Antius, everyone.
  Antius, I agree totally with what you said.  There is a further reason why we would not want to ship them to the asteroid belt.  They are wildly valuable.  Nuclear wastes are filled with rare earths, and material that can be processed (using breeder reactors) into more nuclear fuel.

Assuming humanity does not lose technology, I will bet anyone who cares to, that the nuclear wastes will be dug up within a hundred or two years and USED.

Warm regards, Rick.

This is certainly true of actinides from spent fuel, which is why some countries (France, UK) reprocess spent fuel to recover them.  The other part of spent fuel (fission products) are more problematic.  The cost and difficulty of dealing with them and their effects is generally out of proportion to the value of any heat that they provide.  Also, most fission products decay very rapidly, so it would only be the relatively long lived ones that would be useful in things like RTGs.

The vast bulk of nuclear waste is not spent fuel, but Intermediate Level Waste (such as irradiated materials, fuel cladding, primary circuit components, retired fuel transport flasks, reprocessing equipment, filters, etc) and Low Level Waste, which is everything from contaminated/irradiated concrete to contaminated clothes.  Generally we are talking contaminated or irradiated materials rather than concentrated isotopes.

Much of the concern over nuclear wastes is OTT.  Firstly, if we do suffer economic collapse and lose all of our technology, nuclear waste will be the least of our concerns.  A large part of the population will starve to death and infectuous diseases will be epidemic amongst the weakened population.  Secondly, whilst nuclear waste is a toxic material, it is no more toxic than a lot of other things that we produce, like mine talings, lead, mercury, etc.  We really do need a more informed and proportionate approach in handling this issue.

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