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#851 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here. » 2005-06-20 12:34:20

I have to say this there is a lot of pressure to start oil mining and even mineral mining in antartica. One of the reasons that it has not is that have you seen the areas that each country has claimed as theres. They tend to overlap and usually in the interesting bits.

There is also a lot of pressure groups that really dont want the last vestiges of a wild planet to become a bastion of human consumerism. And im with them.

Antarctica is a big place... just how big of an "untouched" place is worth the very real economic loss of not exploiting what is there?

It is also a very fragile place that is suffering from the global warming. And it is shrinking.

To get to the minerals and oil requires very invasive and harmful techniques. Even the prescence of the staff needed to operate would cause an incredible amount of harm.

#852 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-20 11:00:56

All good stuff for who he hopes to be the next president.

Another Clinton in the white house good for the budget but bad for us the space enthusiast  cool

#853 Re: Human missions » Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle » 2005-06-20 10:59:26

Yes and there is a general love of all things robotic in the psyche of the Japanese just look at all the manga they produce!

There is a trend to greater automation anyway amongst Japanese industries there population is getting older and shrinking and they have a competition with the rest of the asian tigers coming up. And they have experience of Robotic mining it is Japanese companies that are building some of the best new Robots working in the mines of Australia.

#854 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here. » 2005-06-20 10:40:52

I have to say this there is a lot of pressure to start oil mining and even mineral mining in antartica. One of the reasons that it has not is that have you seen the areas that each country has claimed as theres. They tend to overlap and usually in the interesting bits.

There is also a lot of pressure groups that really dont want the last vestiges of a wild planet to become a bastion of human consumerism. And im with them.

#855 Re: Human missions » Japan Eyes Future Manned Moon Base, Space Shuttle » 2005-06-20 10:31:43

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,a … .asp]Japan Dreams of Robot Moon Base in 2025, Advanced humanoid robots could take over mining, telescope-building chores for humans.

All with a budget 1/10th of Nasa? ???

Yes as it has been shown with telerobotics that we do not need to send many people to the Moon to create a very advanced Industrial capacity. Japan knows this and plans to utilise this fact to give itself the advantage.

Robots would have the advantage of not needing a lot of consumable food and air and for repairs, if we can do major operations on humans using telerobotics then we can work on machines which by there nature are easier and tougher.

So dont think of it as JAXA having less of a budget think of it as the japanese being able to get 100 times more out of there dollar spent than NASA.

#856 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here. » 2005-06-13 18:09:40

I believed wrongly that is that Griffin would speed the schedule up. Certainly his statement that CEV would be antied up gave that impression.

Well at least when im retired I will be able to sit back and watch the first man or woman on Mars. Maybe as i believe it will likely get put back by at least ten years due to the USA having other priorities.

Still other countries may have better luck and be faster.

#857 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here. » 2005-06-13 16:46:01

Don't forget about private enterprise. Ok they don't have much more than promises now, but 2030 is a long time away and somehow I have the feeling that lots of people think they've waited long enough for governments to start developing space and now they're beginning to take matters into their own hands.

Possibly, but then again in 20 years time do we really know what is to happen. Look at 1985 for an example this was when we still thought the USSR was going to come and destroy the western world and our only hope was the Reagan sponsored star wars! In fact things where so bad that the USA was not even going to go to the olympics as a result of the USSR invading afghanistan.

Oh and the best film in the animated section of the Oscars was when the wind blows a tale about the effect of a nuclear war.

So for us to look 20 years in the future and hope things turn out all right is shear lunacy. We have no way of knowing what is to or will happen. So by the time they get round to their flights to destination beyond LEO I wonder what will be awaiting them.

#858 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-13 13:56:08

But the problem is that we get all the countries involved in the funding involved in designing the thing. Needless to say this leads to a lot of negociation and changes to design. So costs mount.

Its not about equipment but that in everything Europe tends to allocate "fairly" the research,construction contracts so that every country gets a share equal to what they put in of contracts. ESA works this way and so does Airbus. If we had one central group that would do the science and research needed without caring about borders or where the finance came from the benefits and cost reductions would be incredible.

#859 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-13 13:12:28

Just sharing the research would be a major step towards being more efficient in this area. But it's already happening to a degree with the eurofighter or A400M.

But with these large research groups a lot of politics becomes involved and well we have seen the result in the delays of the typhoon and now with the Airbus super jumbo being delayed for a further 6 months.

reasonable enpowered research groups are the best way to go and then to a dedicated manufacturing facility. Europe is too easy to spread out manufacturing just to give "jobs for the boys". and so gain a bit more political consensus.

#860 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct *3* - ...continue here. » 2005-06-13 13:08:14

Great so a return to the Moon between 2015 and 2020 what does this do to a Mars mission well where talking likely now to be 2030 at the minimum.

Of course this is an estimate and does not allow for any funds to be removed from NASA anything like this to happen and there estimates will be put back a lot more.

From an alternative perspective this actually will allow the other agencies time to be able to get there own attempts to go. Will it be the USA or ESA or even the Chinese, of course there are the outside chancers like Russia or India.

#861 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Medical Science Potpourri » 2005-06-13 12:55:20

The possibilities for this invention are endless both in the Medical and Industrial world.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/408 … Scientists create Nano brushes

Just being able to operate on Viruses to create or modify is astounding (and a little worrying). But to be able to paint the insides of arteries and to coat nerve fibres is a goal well worth the effort. Imagine being able to paint embryonic stem cells along a damaged nerve.

#862 Re: Human missions » China The Dominant Superpower In 20 Years..... - What does this mean for US? » 2005-06-12 14:33:50

Seems that the world has just found out that the PLA chinas armed forces have a much increased capacity for warfare.

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/china-05zzq.html]a spacedaily article

There has been a build up of Chinese naval and technological abilities for the last 10 years. This has resulted in the capability to be able to use missiles to strike targets anywhere on the world and to have "managed to gain" technologies that allow for China to create capabilities that only the USA had.

#863 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-12 14:18:44

Interesting bit of news is that the French have called for an increase in military spending in the EU. This would give the EU economy a boost and allow it to be seen as a bigger player on the world stage. And they have also thought of an increase in military research too.  :hm:

#864 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-12 13:48:18

Yes I agree it is fundamentally a bad idea though like many things made sense when it was first created. Except it does not make sense now.

Really the EU could certainly make some sensible solutions to its Beauracratic mess it is in. Just to stop the EU Parliament moving every 6 months would save a couple of hundred million each year.

Putting money into a European center of technology is a good idea though language will always be a problem. Then again as has been stated the more research a country does the more benefit a country gets economicaly

#865 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-12 12:53:11

This is the start of one of the most pivotal weeks in European history. With the rejection of the constitution by France then Holland and the referendum process now being put of by Britain and others in the EU, many of the alliances and assumptions that kept the EU together are in jeopardy. This week on the 15th and 16th of June the leaders of the EU are to meet and to discuss the proposal to increase the budget of the EU. Factions have already formed and the fighting has commenced. The biggest arquement is about the British rebate.

The rebate a history for those who do not know why it was created and what it means. In 1979 Britain was the third poorest country in the EU and was commonly called the sick man of Europe. Still Britain paid about 40% more than Germany. The reason is that of a budget of 104 Bn euros  about 47.4 Bn goes to pay for the CAP or Common Agricultural Policy, In Britains case with its agriculture policy (large farms) this meant very little of these funds go back to Britain but for countries like Germany and especially France they recieved a lot for there small farmers. Blatantly unfair the then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher won a rebate of 2/3rds of the financial contribution back in 1984. Since then it has been a matter of arquement though the case that Britain still pays more than 2 and half times more into the EU after the rebate than France has kept it.

And the Commen agricultural policy is considered a very unfair and easily open to abuse policy. As an example France actually gets more money for its farmers than it actually pays into Europe as a whole.

With France and especially M Chirac blaming Britain for forcing the constitution to be based on referendums and for it being unattractive to French voters. Have brought the rebate up again saying it is time for Britain to give it up. Prime minister Blair has always stated that any attempt to get rid of it would be met by the British veto vote. Instead Blair stated "that the reason for the unfairness is because the spending of Europe is so geared to the commen agricultural policy. Every time Britain and Denmark try to get the CAP reviewed it is Vetoed by France and Spain as Chirac states "we will refuse any reduction whatsoever of the direct aids to our farmers".

So that is the current battleground and though the EU will survive this week it will not be the same EU that exists today. With Britain appearing to have a lot of support from the new members and with it about to take over presidency it seems Blair has a lot more cards to play than normal. Still France and Germany have become a lot closer in the last week to be able to fight the apparently strong Britain.

#866 Re: Not So Free Chat » Which is Right? » 2005-06-12 10:07:17

Im a firm believer that right makes might, But to have a very strong load of might in the background, just in case. Oh and smile while your doing it and sympathise as well, it will make the other guy feel a bit better when you do what you have to do.

#867 Re: Not So Free Chat » Europe's Oldest Civilization Discovered » 2005-06-12 07:22:24

The celts where one of the peoples that migrated westwards they appear to have been originally from what is now turkey. They also had a small amount that moved eastwards and that is why one of the peoples of China has a tendency to red hair and their ancient tombs have in them people similar to the celts the romans fought.

It appears the celts where a very advanced people and their knowledge and culture spread further than they actually physically spread. This has been found by research into the skeletons of people from Russia to Ireland and Scotland. Though attired and using celtic equipment many where found to be of the indigenous people that where present for millenia before.

#868 Re: Human missions » How to blanket the Moon - with recon-sats » 2005-06-12 06:59:43

If PGMs are able to be found then there return to Earth should if it does not make a profit help waylay the cost of actual operations and to pay for development. This means money for other things like Mars missions. And it may be that it is best to sell the platinum at reasonable rather than normal high prices as this would spur the hydrogen economy and the benefits it will produce.

One problem we have with the Moon is we dont actually know that much about it or have even mapped it properly. In the equator regions we have an error of about 5 to 10 metres but for the poles which are very interesting to us right now the error is up to a 1km. Landing something in that is impossible so we have to map.

And if our mapping fids sources of PGMs then it is ll to the best is it not at least we have a target.

#869 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-11 03:53:23

One of the main reasons that the fighters in Guantanamo are classed as illegal fighters is to protect the current United states administration from being in danger of court action. The geneva convention is quite specific on many things but on non uniformed guerillas it is very gray. It is into this gray area that prisoners are being placed deliberatly.

The reason is the little known War crimes act passed by the congress in 1996. This means any administration that commits what could be classed as a war crime would find itself under threat of domestic litigation and in this case it can bring the death penalty.

Unfortunatly since they are now in a gray area the problems become more evident. If there are attempts to rehabilitate them then it can be said they are being classed as having criminal behaviour and as such should be treated as criminals and to have certain rights. If they are extradited back to there countries then if that country does not take some legal action against them then they could be classed as soldiers and as such get full geneva protection.

At the moment it is so much easier to simply leave them in the gray hole. But to protect the administration it is still necassary to ensure that they are kept in reasonable health and conditions as one day the current administration will be out and one can never take into account political necessity in the future. Keeping them in reasonable health and conditions is simply pulling the teeth of any future attempt at court action.

This also means that using torture against them is a definite no. But also as they have no rights allowing visitors would also give them a possible legitamacy and it could be arqued that this treatment indicates they should have that right so it cannot be done as long as they are in this gray area.

#870 Re: Not So Free Chat » Scientists Behaving Badly? » 2005-06-11 03:26:43

For a bunch of scientists with the aim to ensure a species survival this is sure what I refer to as a major S*** up.

http://www.livescience.com/environment/ … Scientists mistake nearly makes fish extinct

The worst thing about this is the scientists blithely saying sorry we made a mistake. Wiping the majority of the adults out has put this fish into a severe shortage of active genetic material. This is almost as bad as extinction.

what a bunch of muppets...

#871 Re: Human missions » Breaking news? - Admiral Steidle resigns » 2005-06-10 18:01:41

More cuts and the first layoffs.

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.d … ews02]NASA fires culture change consultants

Interesting this actually means another accident that is the result of a lack of safety preparation and thought will mean that Griffin has to take the blame. Another point is this could be NASA not willing to be told what to do. Or just a means to save some hard cash.

#872 Re: Not So Free Chat » Apropos of Nothing *4* » 2005-06-10 04:25:44

Is it me or do spammers seem to be on the increase. Is this the result of the various companies making spam mail harder to post and to be able to get rid of it faster. Certainly it seems there is another just came on this forum look at our latest member sexmaniac. And tell me this is not a spammer  :angry:

#873 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-10 04:21:53

Yeah you can read from about page 11 backwards. Still it is very unlike Bill to get the last word. Hmmm conspiracy theory here (did he crash it himself)  big_smile

#874 Re: Civilization and Culture » The Local Currency - How many Martian Spanners does it cost? » 2005-06-10 04:19:12

In the future we certainly will still have hard currency but for the most part people wont use it. Electronic banking is the way it will have to go and certainly there will be fraud. But ask yourselves how much does electronic fraud cost compare to people just stealing money. You have to have a bit of brains to steal from a computer and that is getting harder and harder each year.

Identity fraud is a problem but one of our own making as we believe ID cards with personal Bio data and fingerprints on them are an invasion into privacy. But if we want to get rid of ID theft and from that the majority of computer fraud that is what we will have to do.

I dont know what the currency will be based on certainly economic effectiveness and apparent stability of the currency is a very stupid way to do it. But going back to a gold standard does not make a lot of sense either. It really comes down to what a man should be paid per hour for doing one hours physical labour and its relationship with labour that is Mental rather than physical.

#875 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-10 03:58:14

Well done for those who wanted to see why topics collapse in this case we managed it.  big_smile

Back to buisness
What is your oppinion of this bit of news. (probably it was discussed last night but well that is gone.)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americ … 6.stm]Bush aide "edited" climate papers

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