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Cooperation only works when you have a common foe to cooperate against. competition, whether it be between people, businesses, or countries, have acheived *exponentially* more than cooperation.

You must be Joking, right? The US economy is already larger *and* growing faster than the EU25/EU15/Eurozone/etc. and we are already less burdened by a *much* lower tax rate and we have much more income per capita to spare it.

Europe is coming in a pension crisis and cannot even afford a decent military to afford their utopian socialist promises. most EU countries have median ages above 40 (US is 35, EU averag is 40) and some will be above 50 in just a few decades! It is at a point that taxing for anything other than the elderly will dramatically affect their economy and thus, their ability to pay for a space program.

..and if you add up all of the the State and federal welfare crap you get about $9000 per person *annually* !!!

or else we could end up with a North and South China one communist, likely the south would be free, and the north not.  That would not be too good.

And the fact that a Chinese civil war could kill probably tens of millions, but freedom is not free.

Those Country breifings are interesting tools arent they

On demographics:

Earth in 2050: Expect 9 billion humans
Report sees U.S. population rising while Europe slowsThe Associated Press
Updated: 10:00 a.m. ET Aug. 17, 2004WASHINGTON - Many of the world’s largest industrialized nations will lose population between now and 2050 as low birth rates, struggling economies and curbs on immigration stifle growth, says the author of a world population report.

The annual study by the private Population Reference Bureau found that, while the world’s population will increase nearly 50 percent by mid-century, Japan will lose 20 percent of its population in the next 45 years, while Russia, Germany and Italy will also see declines.

United States is the biggest exception among developed countries, with its population forecast to rise by 43 percent from 293 million now to 420 million at mid-century.

Still, most of the world’s population growth will come in developing nations, even though these less developed countries generally have much higher rates of HIV and AIDS infections and infant mortality.

China, currently the world’s most populous nation at 1.3 billion, would see an overall 10 percent increase between now and 2050 to over 1.4 billion in 2050, but its peak population is anticipated to be reached by 2025 with declines thereafter.

India expected to top China
By 2050, India is expected to overtake China, rising almost 50 percent from under 1.1 billion now to 1.6 billion at mid-century. Nigeria’s population is expected to nearly triple in size to 307 million, while Bangladesh would double to 280 million.

The trends could change further depending on the how successful doctors are in treating AIDS infections and reducing infant mortality rates and, how prevalent contraceptive use and family planning become in developing nations.

“This only tends to accentuate the opposite poles of population growth you have in industrialized and developing countries,” said Carl Haub, author of the report by the bureau, which does population research and is supported by government, foundation and other grants.

The report says the world population should rise 45 percent to nearly 9.3 billion by mid-century, on par with similar projections from the United Nations and the U.S. Census Bureau.

While the population of developed countries would rise 4 percent to over 1.2 billion, the population in developing nations would surge by 55 percent to over 8 billion. Countries in Africa and south Asia would see the largest increases.

Tale of two countries
Haub highlighted Nigeria and Japan as examples of two countries heading in different demographic directions. About 44 percent of Nigeria’s population today is younger than 15, while just 3 percent is older than 65. Nigerian women typically give birth to almost six children over their lifetime.

Japanese women, on average, give birth to just over one child in their lifetime. While 14 percent of the Japanese population is younger than 15, 19 percent is older than 65.

“Clearly, Nigeria has millions of young people to educate and employ. Vast investments are needed to provide a higher quality of life for Nigeria’s growing population,” he said. “Japan must find ways to take care of more and more retired people and still maintain an adequate work force.”

There are recent signs that Japan’s economy may be on the upswing, though a Japanese government report last year suggested that stronger measures were necessary to encourage people to have more children and to make domestic markets more attractive to foreign investors.

Having younger residents is often seen as a good indicator not only for future population growth, but as a tax base to support programs for the aged. In a rough parallel to the Social Security program’s challenges in the United States, a growing number of retirees in Japan has been consuming the nation’s huge savings pool.

Europe's aging issue
Meanwhile, many European countries with aging populations have sent out conflicting messages of seeking more workers while blocking out immigrants, the U.N. Population Division has said. The issue has sparked political debate in Austria, France and the Netherlands.

Societal norms play a role as well in many countries, Haub said. He highlighted Italy, where many young men live at home with parents until their late 20s because it is less acceptable to live with someone and raise a family out of wedlock.

As a result, many young Italians either don’t get married or leave the country entirely, Haub said.

Italy’s population was expected to decrease 10 percent to 52 million in 2050.

The population projections were based on data from foreign governments, the United Nations and the U.S. Census Bureau.

© 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Do any of you know what you are Talking about?

China is seriously the most overhyped country on the face of the planet, and their economy while growing fast is nearing that same point that Japan was in the late 80s.

In real GDP, not the fake 3rd-world overinflating PPP, Chinas REAL economy is smaller than Italy's and California's.

The US economy is 11 Trillion, and Industry is ~20% of it meaning $2.2 Trillion, larger than China's entire economy. That Figure, In itself is overinflated as well, as it INCLUDES Taiwan; a Nation with a $300 billion GDP. So the PRC's real economy is TEN TIMES smaller than ours. China is 45%. China's light industry(stocking-stuffers, digital camreas) Is impressive, but the heavy industries are no match for the west. China's car production barely tops south Korea, a coutry 24 times smaller than it.

Even on a GDP-PPP(which is crap and almost worthless)  scale China's economy is half our size and If China can somehow keep it's unsustainable growth rates up it would still take 20-30 years to EQUAL ours, and you will find NO economist who will say that China

So Industrially on a world scale it is $450 billion vs. 2.2 trillion.

The truth is, is that industrial performance is becoming less and less important in the 21st century. We are in the mist of a major transition into an Information/Technology Economy just as the agrarian economies passed into industrial ones in the 1800s.

There is class strife brewing as well, ALL of the economical growth has come from the 200-300 million on the industrial west coast the other 1 billion peasant farmers are becoming relatively more and more poorer, which could very well lead to civil unrest.

Chinese financials are in even worse shape now than Japan's were in the Late 80s. There is MASSive overcapacity, and Bad loans total $500 billion dollars, about 40% of China's GDP! Investment is $660 billion, about 200 more than China can actually beneift from and China's deflation is turning to inflation, which is all bad news as China is a overheating economy, even worse so than Japan was...

If China growth does not slow down soon, China will go Kaboom. Japan is still in  a recession from it.

"Democrats want to pour money into social programs? Is that so terrible? I mean, we only spend 1/6 of the budget, our tax dollars, on domestic programs maybe it could use a little more. "

1/6th??? BWAHAAHAAA
http://www.singmind.com/singleminded/da … getout.gif

Are you living in 1923?

Would it be possible to mount 4 boosters on a delta 4(as opposed to 2 on a Delta 4 Heavy) and make a Delta 4 superheavy with a ~42000lb load?

perhaps for use with the CEV?

Actually, the payload for the Shuttle has been reduced to 24.4 tons. now the Delta IVH can throw up *more* than the space shuttle! for like 3-4 times less money no less...

"Chinia thinks it can do it for less."

Of course they can, China has manipulated the Yuan so low it can do anything cheaper.

Or some penny pinching Democrat will cancel it altogether for more handouts?

What ever happened to the JFKs in the Democrats; almost all of the 9 dwarfs running now think it is a bad idea....

The rising Euro will probably make Ariane 5 launche more expensive than Delta Ivs.