New Mars Forums

Haha, you're right...not too inspiring to the native Martian, nor intimidating to outside observers.

In all seriousness, I would have to say that for an official flag, there should either be small images of the flags of every nation involved in the mission (they would be superimposed on some larger design) or no national flags at all.  I REALLY don't want to see this 'flags and footprints' business on Mars.

I would love to see a flag or symbol that embodied the entire population of Earth (ANYTHING but the UN flag). If placing a national flag symbolizes a nation claiming land, then there should be some sort of universal symbol for humanity, as if to say, "this land is claimed by Earth and all humankind."

I seem to remember from my fourth grade science class that each planet in the solar system has some sort of symbol. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? If Earth's symbol were used on a blue or red backdrop, we could be on to something.

Allow me to jump in on the Confederate Flag/Swastika issue.

Contrary to popular belief, only about 3/10 of the South's population owned slaves at the time of the Civil War. Those who did own slaves usually owned less than five.  (The massive plantations with 500+ slaves were quite rare due to the immense cost of  slave upkeep. The annual cost for one slave was something like the modern-day equivalent of $60,000-a lot of money in any man's English).

Something a lot of people don't realise about the Confederate flag is that blacks (slave and free) fought under it. Often times, when a slave owner went off to the war, he would take his slave(s) with him. The master's children would grow up with the slave children, so there was a certain bond between the two. If you really study it, you'll find that most of the time there was a mutual respect, so the master and slave often fought together. Blacks in the Confederate army were paid and respected for their duties; they worked as cooks, musicians, and yes, even soldiers.

Also there is the example of the 1st Lousiana Native Guard- a New Orleans-based regiment consisting entirely of free blacks. The Confederate military would not officialy accept them, so they fought Union troops independently in 1862. In March of 1865, after years-long pressure from several prominent military leaders of the day, the Confederate Congress passed a resolution allowing blacks to serve in the military. There are records of several officially enlisted black Confederate servicemen who were present at the Appommattox Courthouse surrender in April of 1865.

But what it really comes down to is that the Confederate soldiers had grown up hearing war stories from their grandparents about the American Revolution- Much the same way I have grown up hearing my grandfather's stories about World War II. The average Rebel soldier was a poor farm boy who had never been more than 20 miles from home, could not read, and therefore had no political motivation whatsoever. Their country was being invaded by a foreign army and they felt obligated to defend it. They saw themselves as fighting the same fight their grandfathers had fought. They could have cared less about slavery.

I have ancestors who fought and died for the Confederacy and I am very proud of them. My ancestors didn't own slaves- they were dirt poor! I fly the Confederate flag for the same reason I fly the American flag- respect and pride for ALL who have fought and died under both banners. I despise the KKK and the neo-Nazis; they have both committed horrible atrocities. But they have also taken a flag that stood for dignitiy, courage, states' rights, and honor and made it into symbol for hatred in America.

It frustrates and angers me that just because of the Klan, I can't fly the Confederate flag without being called a racist and that the swastika is now known as a symbol of evil, hatred, and murder just because some psycho with a bad mustache killed jews under it. These racist groups I have mentioned are nothing but a raving pack of idiots.

So when you see a Confederate flag or swastika, try to look at it in terms of what it was originally intended to stand for. If you let the idiots dominate your thinking, then they win.

Sorry that was so long, but I just feel quite strongly about these things and I had to pull out my soapbox for a minute.

But on the Mars issue, I agree with the simplicity idea. Something people can remember and duplicate easily. Perhaps a Mars Society flag? I like the idea of an astronaut's boot touching down on the red surface. As long as it's sleek and nifty-looking.

Hmmm....you've got a point there, but consider this...

What of the people of South Dakota? Why should they be forced to pay taxes that will profit Virginia or any other state besides South Dakota? If a state (or person for that matter) wants to better itself, it should provide the means to do so. Don't get me wrong, a union is all well and good, but a central beuracracy inevitably erodes the rights of individual states.

Also, what if, for example, one person is conservative and lives in a city-state that is very liberal leaning? That person could simply move to a neighboring city-state that is more conservative. The same could be said for conflicting religious beliefs. This would not be a possibility under a centralized world government.

It is for these reasons that I don't understand how a confederation would lead to any more increased societal tensions and wars than we already have, considering that each state would be left to its own devices, rather than having a federal law to appease one part of society at the expense of all the rest.

I'm not saying there can't be any federal government; look at some of the previous posts where some of the others and I advocate a central military and currency. I see no problem with having a special clause in the constitution where many of the powers revert to a central world government in times of global crisis, such as war or impending doom from an asteroid. At the end of the crisis, these powers would be reverted back to the states.

I hadn't thought about that 'jury duty' thing...sounds like a great idea! That would cut out one of the biggest problems with politicians: they make politics their CAREER. If it were ordinary citizens who care about nothing but the issues, perhaps government would not be so corrupt.

As for global direct electronic democracy, those would only come about whenever there was a presidential election. By the way, I like the idea of having some sort of credit card-type thing to carry around for the purpose of voting in elections. I worry that paper ballots would lead to a Florida-esque fiasco on Mars (no offense to any Floridians). Since the Martian government will probably be a highly decentralized confederation of states, the government will have very little authority and will therefore have no need of very many elections anyway.

Here's a suggestion for government structure:
Every 6 years, Martians will choose a president, who will have very little real power. The president's job will be basically to represent Martians to all outside political and societal bodies. The president would have the power to write bills, call for global referendums on important issues, and probably some other things I haven't thought of yet.
A bicameral legislature consisting of a 'jury duty' senate and a 'house' that would consist of the whole population. Any decisions made by the president would have to be ratified by a simple 51% majority in the senate to be considered for approval by the masses. If two-thirds of the 'house' approves it, it becomes law.

Furthermore, I believe that for the first century or so, the Martian global military's main objective should be to build a powerful space defense infrastructure to protect against asteroids and the like.

I agree with what most of you are saying:

1. Decentralized government- I'm thinking Confederation of Martian States...heh, nice ring to it...
2. Global, centralized military
3. Strict Constitution for world government
4. Colonial mililtias
5. Global currency

However, i disagree with the whole "illegalize lethal weapons" idea. The only real protection a population has from its government is the right to bear arms. Just as the government enforces laws with police forces, the population enforces its constitutional freedoms with things like militias and private ownership of weaponry. Besides, if some wacko decides he wants to kill someone, he doesnt need a gun of any kind to do so, as he will find a way regardless; witness what Timothy Mcveigh did with fertilizer, and what the 9/11 hijackers did with boxcutters.

But other than that, we pretty much agree.

What do you think about this: in order to avoid regional disputes, schoolchildren could be taught planetary loyalty while at the same time making the planetary constitution a centerpiece for learning throughout their schooldays? They would be aware of their rights and loyal to their planet and its (human) history all at once. Also, there could be a worldwide official language, such as Latin (since most European languages are based on it). Individuals and colonies could keep their original languages, but must know Latin as well. This would help foster planetary unity and make it easier to communicate.

First, allow me to say greetings. I am a new member who has combed through these boards quite frequently over the past few months. Hello all!

Second, Nova,
Have you ever taken the time to consider that any life existing on Mars would have to be extraordinarily resilient in order to survive in the harsh conditions of that world? More than likely, said life would exist only in the underground aquifers or frozen in Martian permafrost. Also, said life would have had to survive millions of years of climatalogical and possible geologic upheaval, bitter cold, cosmic radiation and many other obstacles. I highly doubt that a few Earthers landing on the surface will be enough to wipe out life that has endured all these hardships over millions of years.

In fact, Martian terraforming would quite possibly revitalize subterranean strongholds of microbial or multi-cellular life. How would warming the planet so that oceans could swell be at all detrimental to life that survives in water? How could thickening the atmosphere so that some radiation is blocked put an end to all hopes for the evolution of the previously mentioned lifeforms into complex, thriving ecosystems?