New Mars Forums

First of all, the elevator could launch to any orbit.  Second of all, biotech labs in orbit would be extremely useful to do studies of diseases and treatments in zero-G.  A lot of companies would probably kill for the chance to do this.  Remember that Columbia's treasure on board before the tragedy was the cancer samples that it had studied.

There are likely many other fields of science that would also love to study phenomena in zero-G as well.

Orbital shipyards are another possibility, as well as the materials to get there.

To put that into perspective, Bill, the Shuttle launch system is over 2 million kg, only 33% less mass than what you are talking about sending up to orbit.

And the elevator also has the potential to send cargo to other celestial bodies as well (anything in the solar system, in fact). 

In addition, I would charge more for cargo, because companies are already spending $5,000/kg and up to send their cargo to orbit.  Let's say a biotech company decided to launch a 20 tonne lab to orbit (20,000 kg).  Then, they need to supply it with people and supplies.  The lab itself would cost $10 million to launch.  Then, charge $20,000 round trip per person, who could possibly stay up for months.  Our real business is supplying the crew with food, clothes, etc, which we charge $500/month for.

I don't have a figure off-hand, but CNT is extremely light (I know this isn't a CNT topic, but it almost has to be considered), and is thousands of times longer than it is thick.  The ribbon would be extremely light.  The Highlift estimate is 7 booster launches to deploy the ribbon, which is then extended by their own capsule launches. 

Observatories, ISS cargo, new modules, perhaps (due to the lower cost) private orbital development.  The problem is we don't know what extent that an immense drop in payload costs like this will spur the market.

Is the market weak because it is too expensive, or is it weak because there is no interest (which may be because of the cost)?

Freighters for people, new supplies, seed factories, power reactors, deuterium transfer, etc.

I was thinking fusion in terms of the speed it could get, probably far surpassing solar in the distance between Earth and Mars.

When did I ever say 10,000 seconds of isp?  And when did I say it needed plasma? 

250,000 lbs of thrust is, what, peanuts? 

The Earth escape velocity from orbit is ~5 km/s.  So, let's check our rocket equation:

1-(e^(5000/9800)^1/x)

The payload ratio that is left is slightly above 40%.

With an exhaust velocity of 9800 m/s, you can expect speeds of about 18,000-20,000 m/s (or 1.8-2 km/s).  This equates to a 6 week travel time to Mars.

clark: That's what I was getting at when I said "The Company" had better mean multiple competing companies, that can't dominate the market and force unfavorable conditions down the consumers' throats.

Weren't you paying attention?  Here, let me copy and paste it for you:

" Because banks hold gold in reserve, as a second resort to the dollar.  As the value of gold changes, so does the value of currency and commodities."

The gold value is still the basis for the price of commodities and currencies.  It is not just another commodity.  This is economic ignorance. 

Banks still use gold as a reserve for currency, and thus, gold is still  the unofficial standard of the economy.  If the central banks removed their gold reserves, the gold backing would no longer exist.  It is really quite simple. 

Please, don't believe me, ask any economist.

That sounds fine, various economic systems can exist in the vicinity of the city, which would probably be dependent on trade with Earth (and so, would most likely be corporate/capitalist, surrounded by farm kibbutz type "villages" and perhaps factory domes). 

The spaceport can grow into a major city (for example, New York city growing from Ellis Island immigration) by attaching domes as immigration increased.  Perhaps a residential, commercial, etc. dome.  "The Company" may, in each case, be a varied mix of competitors.  In fact, this is almost a necessity.  What if the Mars Supply Company goes down?  We better have Martian Supply Co. B to provide our supplies!

I would like to add, if an employee is to be fired, he must get at least a 1-2 month notice.  This is because all of his basic necessities are being provided by the company, so they will need time to find a new home, food provider, etc.

Yes, I was, in response to this quote:

"Certainly. It's siliness. As long as I'm alive, that is, my systems are functioning and I'm getting nutrition and so on, it doesn't matter where or what my environment is.

You are arguing that there are several levels of ?aliveness.? Though it may be true or whatever, this is the exact same argument environmentalists make."

Since the environment includes all the biomes on Earth, which you now intend to somehow dome, while burying the water, your nutrition would wilt away fairly quickly.

On the large scale, yes.  Because without all of these unseen life forms, the food chain would fall apart, and humans would be left without anything to eat.

Why would you ever strip the atmosphere away?

No, stoners can work.  People hardly ever use a car as a killing tool (intentionally).  A gun, now that's quite different.

I take it you don't know that the chances of getting shot with your own gun are at best, roughly equal to the chances of the gun saving the owner.

Enough kids have trouble learning to read and write.  And I would hope that something as dangerous as a gun would require more than 2 or 3 classes.  A driver's lisence requires two years of driving, and 30 hours of drivers ed, plus a road test. 

Are you going to tell me that you would hold guns to a lighter standard than cars?

Shift and squirm?  No.  It's an economic fact, which I have been saying in no uncertain terms, that the price of commodities and currency is still based on gold.  Why?  Because banks hold gold in reserve, as a second resort to the dollar.  As the value of gold changes, so does the value of currency and commodities. 

So you think this is a black and white game?  Try taking an economics course.  The gold standard doesn't have to be official to exist.  You're talking nonsense.  The government can't say it's gone and it vanishes, especially when their own banks are backed by gold!

No, the gold standard will be removed when our banks stop using gold reserves to back the dollar, and gold is no longer the measure of currency value and commodity prices!

Whatever!

Wow, whatever.  A priceless argument!  I still hold, as has been shown through economics, that the gold price still determines the flow of the economy.  Take away the gold foundation, and the economy collapses.  If you care to actually refute me with something other than "whatever" please do.