New Mars Forums

The guy seems to be confusing several different issues and coming up with wrong answers. 

I very much doubt that the Earth will "run out of resources". There is v. little sign of that happening. World economic growth continues at some huge figure like 4-5% (despite the problems of Euro-America). We are recycling materials more and more efficiently. We are on the brink of limitless energy, if not yet cheap energy through green energy technologies. We don't have to rely on oil - it's just rather convenient for a lot of things. But electric cars will perform just as well as petrol/gas cars within a few years (Toyota have just developed a 1000 mile range battery that will cost 25% of current batteries - and even if that didn't work, you could have battery changing stations to extend range). So that's ticks for energy and transport.  Aircraft can fly on bio fuels. Plants can produce polymers. Once you have limitless energy, you can put a lot of energy into growing food in special facilities e.g. polytunnels, farm towers, and so on. Energy can also be used to extract water from the atmosphere in dry aeas and irrigate the land.

If certain metal sources start to run out they will be recycled more efficiently or the seabed will be scoured as an alternative to mining on land. But most importantly I think we will see materials substitution and artificial creation of materials.

I have never thought space mining will be a major industry in the next 100 years or so. But certainly Mars and the asteroids can provide supplies of the most valuable metals and stones e.g. gold, platinum and diamonds.

Space energy could be important. I think there is certainly scope for solar satellites beaming energy down to Earth.

I think that old adage from the Apollo/Hippy era  is needed now: "Just do it!"  Once the public know we have a presence on Mars they will respond.

Fortunately there is one man I think agrees and he happens to be in just about the sweetest spot to take forward that approach: Elon Musk.  No coincidence of course: since his goal has always been to have humanity colonise Mars.

Bobunf -

Benjamin Franklin didn't work on a series of protoypes of the Turk over 4 years did he?  But Sergio Focardi, well respected prof at Uni of Bologna, did work with Rossi on prototypes over 4 years. If Rossi is a scammer he is (a) a very patient one and (b) one who can fool a scientist such as Focardi working close up on a machine.

I think you have to admit it is not inherently plausible that he is a scammer - if he is a scammer, it will be a VERY UNUSUAL example of a scam, completely atypical.

I am not sure you are right to say that "water in the form of ice sublimes away" on Mars. Water as liquid water may sublime, but not ice, which is why there are glaciers on the surface of Mars. The glaciers contain huge amounts of water, which should provide plenty of material for artificial clathrates.

I am not sure that Wikipedia entry is completely right. I am sure I have read about natural methane clathrates on the surface of Earth. I will check that.

Great post Spacenut. That puts all those announcements in context. Thanks.

I wonder whether we'll be able to detect if any of the warm terrans have a moon like ours - seems possible if the moon is also passing before the earth-like planet. From what I have read our Moon played a rather crucial role in stabilising our planet's orbit and making the evolution of complex life forms far less problematical.

I recall a previous discussion which ended up with the thought that we don't really need thick space gloves on Mars...We could probably get by on light mittens on a warm afternoon. I think that would be a definite plus.

Well done to one and all!

Love this weather report!

Coming from the UK, weather is our favourite subject and this brings home the reality of this mission.  We have this wonderful craft on a planet that bears a true family resemblance to our own. 

Lowest Earth temp recorded was something like -87F.  -22F is almost tropical!

Is the millibars figure higher than expected?

[b]Yes, that's what I was getting at.  It would be enormous but would it be a price worth paying in terms of reduced complexity and increased safety?  There must be some mass saving on heat shield and parachute paraphenalia. 

I would want orbital refuelling and possibly not just orbital refuelling - maybe also midway (or maybe Mars orbit) refuelling and on Mars refuelling.

Also, I wouldn't want the fuel for orbital refuelling to come from earth. I'd want that to come from the Moon. If we are confident of establishing a human ISRU mission on Mars, we would also be able to put in place a lunar base with lunar fuel production.

Further I would favour LEO assembly of maybe two or three parts.

If you put all that together, then I think you may be back to manageable proportions.

By the way reaction in UK seems to be pretty enthusiastic regarding this mission - despite the rather uninspiring scenery. I'm pleasantly surprised.

Maybe people are looking for some escape from the problems on Earth?

Retrorockets have been getting a lot of good publicity in the coverage of the Phoenix lander.

Surely now is the time to give serious consideration to retrorocket landing for a minimal human mission on Mars.

In principle, if we can refuel a Mars lander in earth orbit, couldn't we make a 100% retro landing?

Some stray thoughts:

1. Although I'm as enthused as anyone about this mission, I'm hoping it doesn't find signs of life. If it does then I think the Mars preservationists will have a strong case to argue against human missions to Mars, lest they bring with them Earth life which could destroy Mars life. Whilst the discovery of life on Mars if it turns out to be a variant on earth life, then that is frankly going to be a bit boring. We'll be spending the next 10,000 years gingerly analysing these boring bits of life and not daring set foot on the planet!

2. Choice of static mission to the Northern Plains is a bit of a PR disaster in my view. People have grown accustomed to the excitement of rover missions.  Picture of flat, featureless, rocky desert won't go down well with American taxpayers in light of the credit crunch and pressure on family incomes.

3. Are the Phoenix cameras going to be monitoring the sky for "weather"?

Brilliant news!

I was slightly surprised to read this on a space news site:

"Images from the landing zone will hopefully be available in about two hours. This is the first successful rocket landing on Mars since 1976."

The first since 1976?

Now this involved parachute, I understand, but I think we should be giving far more attention to the potential for retro-rockets to solve the problems of Mars landings. If we develop LEO refuelling and ten tonne landers, I think there is scope for delivering sufficient fuel to Mars orbit to allow this.

Looking forward to the photos as I am sure we all are...