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#576 Re: Not So Free Chat » Apropos of Nothing *4* » 2005-06-21 14:44:05

Your post count isn't to far behind mine, Mr-I-Need-A-New-Screen-Addy-Cause-My-Other-One-Couldn't-Keep-Up. big_smile

Oh Yeah?

Yeah

And you, and you

are probably right.

#577 Re: Not So Free Chat » Apropos of Nothing *4* » 2005-06-21 14:36:20

Dude, go away. Things were better when you said as much as you were seen.  tongue  big_smile

I think he said: "Get a life"

big_smile

#578 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-21 14:31:22

http://www.suntimes.com/output/iraq/cst … 1.html]Too weird

= = =

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown … 1.htm]Nice rant, this

Thousands of people — U.S. soldiers, Iraqi soldiers and civilians — died during the invasion.

No weapons ever were found.

People have been tortured looking for those weapons.

U.S. soldiers have died in the search.

Yet, there's Saddam sitting in a cell eating Raisin Bran Crunch for breakfast ("No Fruit Loops," he's told the guards).

and

For the past few days I've been receiving e-mails and phone calls from readers calling me a traitor to my country for suggesting the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay should be treated humanely.

Like Saddam Hussein, for example.

They ought to have access to lawyers, just like Saddam.

They should be given a trial.

Saddam is going to get one.

and

Saddam snacks on Doritos and eats his Raisin Bran while the people of his country continue to suffer and die.

When Saddam had the power, would he have ever extended such treatment to a defeated and despised foe?

No. And that answer makes all the difference in the world.



Edited By BWhite on 1119390112

#580 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-21 13:38:04

Bill Frist is http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/21/ … ex.html]so not going to be President.

After telling the truth about poor Teri Schiavo and now the Bolton disaster his base must be melting, melting, melting.

Frist: We can't get Bolton through.

Bush: If you don't try harder, I'm going to tell Dobson you aren't a team player.

Frist: But then I won't be Preznit in 2008!

Bush: I'm glad you see it my way.



Edited By BWhite on 1119382901

#581 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-21 13:34:06

Actually, with Clinton's judges, there was this little thing called a Senatorial "hold" --  not a full blown filibuster, just one Senator blocked candidates from an up or down vote.

Speaking of upperdown - - some folks over at DailyKos have commented that Irish Coffee is a form of upperdown (caffeine and alcohol) and invented a drinking game. You watch cSPAN and everytime someone says "upperdown" in debate you take a drink.

#582 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-21 13:17:03

This is what I was afraid of with the Clinton impeachment, now every President is going to have to face this for some ridiculous nonsense.   roll

See, its like with the judicial nominations. The GOP hits first and then seeks to outlaw hitting, for the alleged good of the country.

This nuclear option on the filibuster thing and the Atty General's decree that Jose Padilla ain't got no rights is going to boomerang in ways the rightie-libertarians don't like.

In ways I don't like either, except in the crude "what goes around, comes around" sense.

#583 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-21 13:00:54

Cobra and I agree on the prudence of applying the Geneva Convention to all Gitmo-esque detainees, even as we also agree that legal fine print might not require it. Pragmatism should rule here and abstract philosophy can wait for beer and pretzels.

Torture diminishes anyone who practices it or tolerates it. Therefore, merely taking Rummy's word that "we aren't doing it" just ain't good enough for me.

= = =

=IF= Saddam and his top aides have revealed information about French involvement with the oil-for-food scandal (follow the money trial) =THEN= I believe the RWNM (Right Wing Noise Machine) would have its volume cranked and Saddam's own words would be plastered all over the air waves.

=IF= a public trial of Saddam would bolster the Bushian world view on Iraq it would have happened by now. In matters of public opinion, remaining silent can and should be used against you, the same with secrecy for places like Gitmo.

If there is nothing to hide, open the doors to Gitmo and start Saddam''s trial.

On principle, I categorically oppose capital punishment as a judicila option but in Saddam's case I won't be holding no candellight vigil - - after a truly transparent trial. Back when Saddam was nabbed I recall thinking that "shot while trying to escape" might have been the best option.

#584 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-21 12:30:46

Iraq's http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8298669/]new justice minister - - yup, the one appointed after regime change and while 140,000 US soldiers are in country - - says Saddam should be tried sooner rather than later and in a transparent manner:

“There should be transparency and there should be frankness, but there are secrets that if revealed, won’t be in the interest of many countries,” he said. “Who was helping Saddam all those years?”

Hey, Saddam is an evil MF but maybe its better to keep him quiet so all those Texas connections to the "oil for food" scandal are not revealed. 

Either way, for our new friends in Bahgdad to be slamming the US is not good news.

#585 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-21 12:20:18

Bill Clinton on Gitmo:

In his interview with the FT, Clinton struck a pragmatic note about the abuses, citing "two huge problems" that have nothing to do with morality.

"Practical problem number one. If American or British troops get the reputation for abusing people in their prisons, " Clinton said, "it puts are own soldiers much more at risk" when they are serving overseas.

"The second problem is, if you rough somebody up bad enough they'll eventually tell you, most of them, whatever you want to hear to get you to stop doing it.

"And if you run a dictatorship, maybe all you want is for somebody to say they are guilty. If you are trying to preserve and expand freedom you want to convict the guilty and exonerate the innocent. If people are abused and they confess, or the finger other people [sic], and you gather up those who are not guilty, then as a practical matter you've let the guilty go free."

#586 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-21 11:15:39

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/st … 1.gif]This cartoon is very well done.

Your memory is in error. We regret the mistake.



Edited By BWhite on 1119374177

#588 Re: Human missions » tSpace » 2005-06-20 12:19:25

I wonder if 1 gee to 4 gees "feels different" for a human body than "0 gee to 3 gees"

Ask any astronaut returning from orbit I'd guess...

True.

I should read whether re-entry gees develop "slowly" or wham just hit all at once.

#589 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-20 11:25:18

More http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/w … tm]Clinton news:

Here's Why Jeb Bush Won't Run
Florida Gov. Jeb Bush has for months sternly rejected running to replace his brother in the White House, but only now are we finding out why. Friends say it's his wife, Columba, who closed the door. "His wife has just said no," a close Bush Florida political pal tells us.

Will Barbara Bush Tuck Bubba In?
Republican mutterings over former President george H. W. Bush 's budding friendship with one-time archrival Bill Clinton are growing. What started when President Bush put the two foes on the tsunami relief parade has some GOP-ers worried that the old man and wife Barbara have fallen for Bubba. And now this: Clinton's staying at Bush's Kennebunkport, Maine, summer home during a book tour this month. Why care? Republicans fret that the ties might prompt the Bushes to pull punches against Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton if she runs in 2008.

#590 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-20 11:22:04

Such much outrage at Senator Durbin linking Gitmo to Nazi-ism.

So little outrage at Grover Norquist linking the estate tax with the Holocaust:

White House confidante Grover Norquist, known for his blistering attacks on U.S. taxes, likened the estate tax to the "morality of the Holocaust" in October 2003.

"The argument that some who play to the politics of hate and envy and class division will say is, 'Well, that's only 2 percent -- or, as people get richer, 5 percent, in the near future -- of Americans likely to have to pay [the estate tax]," he told NPR. "I mean, that's the morality of the Holocaust: 'Oh, it's only a small percentage. It's not you; it's somebody else.'"

Heh!  big_smile

#591 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-20 11:05:08

Can Hillary Clinton run for President with Bill as Veep?

Amendment XXII - Presidential term limits. Ratified 2/27/1951. History

1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President, when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.

2. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years from the date of its submission to the States by the Congress.

#592 Re: Human missions » tSpace » 2005-06-20 10:54:26

The physical sensation of a t/Space launch may well be unique.

Imagine free fall after release from the carrier plane, essentially zero-gee, followed nearly instantly by a multi-gee kick in the back.

I wonder if 1 gee to 4 gees "feels different" for a human body than "0 gee to 3 gees"

#594 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-20 10:14:53

Maybe so Tony can spin it that he sought to be a restraining influence on Bush and sinec nothing short of open confrontation with Washington (unacceptable for the UK) was going to stop regime change Tony sought to "play" George as best he could with a weak hand.

British soldiers died so Tony could help restrain Bush after invading Iraq? Sorry Bill, I can’t buy that. Tony Blair steadfast support enabled Bush to invade and gave the action the result of legitimacy, as well as adding credibility to the WMD claims. This has the potential to really damage the standing of Blair, but I’m sure it could be spun as you suggest.

As for Iran… the US army ain’t going anywhere, for a very very long time. Invading Iran would have the net effect of destabilizing the entire Gulf, and decimating our military capability for decades. We just can’t do it without losing Iraq and the rest of the region.

I didn't say it wasn't revisionary history.

#595 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-20 09:22:45

That is a funny conspiracy.

Why would Blair give approval to information that requires hime to lie more?

The thought is that new Downing Street memos seem to pop up every Sunday in the London Times. (A Murdoch paper, by the way) Why?

Maybe so Tony can spin it that he sought to be a restraining influence on Bush and sinec nothing short of open confrontation with Washington (unacceptable for the UK) was going to stop regime change Tony sought to "play" George as best he could with a weak hand. 

This minimizes the political damage to Blair if Iraq continues to get worse and allows him to blame a despicable "Deep Throat" leaker when chatting with Dubya.

#596 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-20 09:03:23

Which is why the Bush Administration is not touching the British memo's with a ten foot pole.

I saw somewhere the suggestion that the Downing Street memos are being deliberately leaked by a highly placed British source perhaps with the tacit approval of Tony Blair, possibly to undermine efforts to stir up a war with Iran.

Has anyone seen the reports of Iranian mortar fire being claimed against Iraqi border posts?

#597 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-20 08:59:40

PS - - on Cindy's point, in 2004 Walter Jones won re-election with 71% of the vote. After the "freedom fries" business.

The idea that he is speaking out against the war for political expediency is ABSURD.   big_smile

#598 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-20 08:51:37

Walter Jones is a Republican.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_B._Jones]Article - - he is very pro-military:

On March 17, 2005, he sponsored a bill endorsing the conduct of controversial USMC Lieutenant Ilario Pantano, who shot two unarmed Iraqi civilians on April 15, 2004.



Edited By BWhite on 1119279304

#599 Re: Not So Free Chat » Political Potpourri VI - (We crashed the last one) » 2005-06-20 08:37:18

Unfortunately the politicians aren't concerned with doing what is right for the country.  They do what is right for themselves.

*Yep, that's it in a nutshell.  The "freedom fries" politician is backing away from his previous support for the Iraq war.  Because of all the casualities?  Because of all the cost?

No, because public opinion is at its lowest point ever regarding Iraq and he's worried about his re-election chances in the wash of overwhelming disapproval.

Time to roast a goat.

--Cindy

Bzzzzzt!

Wrong!

Its because Representative Jones decided he was LIED to by the Administration about Saddam's WMD program.

Walter Jones remains deeply conservative and has joined in the Dick Durbin bash-fest, for example.

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