New Mars Forums

I'm just worried that this hurricane will put the kibosh on the whole deal.

We can't fund NASA any more--we need to get a few more kids killed in Iraq so we can make gazillions off three dollar a gallon gas from their drowned relatives.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just bring the troops home--keep NASA--and use that military money for relief?

That's unpatriotic--how dare you! Now back to work rebuilding those casinos!

Here is a review of a recent book on the subject:

The Orion Project in Print: A Review of George Dyson

I would recommend Project Orion: The True Story of the Atomic Spaceship to anyone with an interest in spaceflight. The book describes a means of propulsion by which nuclear explosions are used to hurl massively overbuilt spaceship to the heavens.

Some of these vessels could have massed out to over 10,000 tons (pp. 55, 105 and 252), and more closely resemble the gun-launched method of propulsion seen in the beginning of science-fiction. On page 59 is a quote from the author’s father: “When I thought about space travel in those days, I was thinking about the huge guns that I had read about in the stories of Jules Verne.”

Orion had widespread interest, and scientists involved had come from many different countries, like China’s Ta Li and Poland’s Stanislaw Ulam (page 93).

The early days of the space race saw the launch of the massive, three ton Sputnik III—a sizable satellite even by today’s standards (p. 182). Here the book makes a mistake in labeling kilograms as pounds.

Orion’s usefulness as apace-based ABM platform is discussed on page 210:

“It really was a much better way to do ABM, there’s no question about that.”

The project received greater attention, and a more detailed space policy study was sent to General Bernard Schriever (p.216) who proved to be no friend of the ABMA later on—in incidents not related in this book, but in another—COUNTDOWN FOR DECISION.

Early manned moon missions were suggested using “ten Atlas Centaurs in all” (p. 218).

In much the same way the Air Force pushes the EELV today, it pushed the Atlas in pre-Apollo days. 

A model of the nuclear pulse Orion craft was put on display as an alternative, as explained on page 222. No photographs are available of this model, sadly—and its effect may have been negative. Smaller warheads made conventional liquid rockets smaller, which did not sit well with von Braun, who went from a competitor to a friend of the program. As it turned out, the Saturn V which could place 100 tons to orbit, could loft 400 tons to the edge of the atmosphere where the pulse drive of Orion could more safely take over. Larger Nova II boosters could even loft the key 4,000 ton Orion referenced most heavily in the book (pp. 239-241.) Should a rocket like Sea Dragon come along, perhaps Orion could live again.

Size actually worked to the benefit of Orion. The “program…worked better and better the bigger it got…and that was a novel thought to a lot of people” (pages 259-260).   

In fact, on page 265 it was hinted that some obstructionism might have been due to the possibility that “some people are afraid nuclear pulse will work.”

I’m sure that Space start ups like Musk and Beal—who had all kinds of problems—would agree. On page 255, an upsurge of public support was mentioned as being a possible reason behind Orion’s secrecy.

Today (sadly) the advancement of rocketry is considered an incremental approach. As Ted Taylor—one of the key figures of the book, explained on page 273: “We must break away from the idea that we have to proceed slowly, one step at a time.”

“Orion could make all the steps at once.”

While having a great fear of space (page 95) Ted’s accomplishment as a nuclear patriot is beyond question—as was his zeal to use atomic energy for constructive purposes.

Nuclear pulse propulsion of a more limited type is being looked at by Joseph Bonometti at NASA MSFC (page 292). Johndale Solem at Los Alamos is working on a different concept called Medusa that is detailed on page 283 and 289. Scott Lowther, an aerospace researcher of some note, keeps Project Orion alive on his website www.up-ship.com

But a lot of data is still classified and in danger of being destroyed. 

Orion is dying with the engineers who worked on the project. Thankfully, some are still alive. Jerry Astl, of Mar Den International Corporation still has the 1;130-scale model of Orion. Moe Scharff works for Science Applications International Corporation. Brian Dunne owns Ship Systems, based on his shaped charge work.  Still, life goes on: “The last of the original group still active at Los Alamos is Harris Mayer” (p. 283.)

One wonders why Project Orion never took off. The easy answer is the anti-nuclear hysteria that took over in the ‘60’s—even among many scientists. Thankfully, such thinking is being questioned in this more conservative age.

Perhaps Orion was restricted was the threat it posed to many in industry.

To steal a quote from page 284:

“People were worried about being able to launch a thousand pound payload, and we were talking about a thousand tons!”

The real reason behind its cancellation was revealed on the same page:

“It stepped on too many toes.”

                                                                                                                         Publius

I have to disagree. The average Communist in the USSR at least had to work--often in harsh conditions to give us the Space race.

Todays lefties are lazy louts the NKVD would put down like mad dogs. That's why Oswald came back. It wasn't as nice as he thought.

Let's hope the hurricane didn't spoil the plans before OMB

Andrews wanted a Gryphon SSTO with a gas core.

Sadly--we just had the equivalent of the hanger collapse in some respects due to the hurricane:

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=17918

That could finish STS. If I didn't know better--I'd say Revenger and the EELV folks were practicing voodoo on it

The SLI TSTO stuff would cost far more than even HLLV. That is just going to have to wait. Actually the original TSTO concept was the worst thing you could build--twice the wing weight, twice the landing gear--stiff structural elements allowing it to launch on its tail and land on its belly, etc.

Fine--if you build it out of unobtainium.

Of all these craft--the dense all hypergolic Martin Astroroket might have had a chance.

Artwork:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums … 10&start=1

--Cool
http://www.axeman3d.com/models2.htm

Yep. Friedman and the toy-robots crowd should have learned their lesson. When you don't care about launch vehicles--it bites you--as in the Volna.

The space elevator people will be insufferable with the recent nano-sheet find.

Let's see if this works:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfis … 3Ft%3D1156

I wonder if the primes are putting the squeeze on Musk like they did Beal--over launch zones...

Nah... :evil: