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#26 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Settlement design » 2021-04-10 13:19:39
Noah size goal appended in first post:
Size goal needs a time scale for the transition from one phase to the next as that tells man the number of flights needed to achieve the goal.
Good idea to pin the post, thanks!
I intentionally left out the timetable. Hypothetically, if I had the opportunity to build a Mars building, I would still have no influence on how the rocket sector develops and thus almost no influence on the timetable. Maybe in the future, when things become clearer, I would create a timetable.
I could create a timetable for after the first touchdown of humans, but that would also be highly speculative. For now, I want to focus on the first step: Home for the settlers.
#27 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Settlement design » 2021-04-10 07:31:29
kbd512,
Regarding the energy issue: I read your comment, but I don't have enough experience to evaluate how realistic the calculations are. But I will look into it and then come back to your suggestions.
You won't see a city with a million people on Mars within your lifetime using current chemical rocket technology. You won't see it with nuclear thermal rocket technology, either. Neither are remotely close to being efficient enough for the stated purpose.
I agree that it is now very very difficult (almost impossible) to achieve such an ambitious plan. But I also would not say it is not possible in my lifetime! We should not underestimate what can invent/improve in 80+ years.
#28 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Settlement design » 2021-04-10 07:23:57
I think a sensible goal would be to aim for 100,000 people as the point at which Mars could probably become fully self-sufficient (if it wished) and continue human culture in all its aspects. Getting to that point will be extremely challenging in my view. There are a number of big hurdles:
I would add that one of the most important points is an economic/financial incentive. For example, resources that can be sold to the earth. But this is not in our hands, we must hope to find such resources.
I'm at the other end of the scale - 6.
(…)
My vision for Mission One is it would depend a lot on Rovers and robots. I don't envisage there being much EVA surface action. The key task will be to locate, mine and transport water ice. All that can be done using human controlled rovers and robots. You don't need more than a couple of people working on that once you have found a good source. They will basically be supervising from the comfort of their pressurised Rover the work of robot drillers, diggers, lifters and transporters, dislodging soil and ice.
I agree that many tasks can be done by rovers and robots.
Most concepts I have heard of involve 4 to 6 people. Of course, that doesn't mean they are correct, so Oldfart1939's approach of 17 people seems interesting.
In 2024, two crew ships and two cargo ships would follow, setting up a production plant to make fuel from the thin Martian atmosphere and begin building a base for future residents.
Ahh okay! You are right Louis.
1. The One Million Person city isn't Noah's target as far as understand it. That target comes from Musk and in my view is crazily over-optimistic on his timescale (I think it was within 30 years).
Exactly, Therefore I created the goal.
#29 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Settlement design » 2021-04-10 04:03:51
Comments
First of all, big thanks for all the comments. There are many new and interesting ideas (for me, anyway).
The topic of settlement design is very broad. If you write a longer comment, please add a heading/subheading to keep the thoughts clear (especially for people who join later).
#30 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Settlement design » 2021-04-10 03:50:42
I saw some misconceptions about the size, so I determined a goal: 
The number of people is not fixed, it is only to create a rough framework.
The goal can and should change over time.
#31 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Settlement design » 2021-04-07 06:05:11
Hello SpaceNut!
Thank you for welcoming me.
The larger a structure is the harder it is to build but we will need room to grow and its not easy to stay in a building mode. A key thing of making a building is to give ways to reduce risk as to isolate work zones, processing equipment and many more semi hazardous work areas from main population areas via air locks, shielding doors for blasts and fires. Safe haven pod areas if such things happen.
Good point, with a certain layout in the building we can also reduce the risks of cosmic rays and solar flares.
#32 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Settlement design » 2021-04-07 04:08:55
Hello Louis!
Thanks for the comments and also for the good structure. Nice to read.
I'm assuming you're looking at the very early stages of a settlement on Mars - let's say the first 10 years.
Yes, I forgot the trivial but important information.
Space X's Mission One will be delivering something like 500 tons, possibly more to the surface.
I thought it was about 100 metric tons per spacecraft. So 200 t on the first trip and another 200 t 26 months later when the crew arrives (total = 400 tons).
Or did they update the design of the starship?
I would consider that as part of life support you need to take plenty of 3D printers, (…)
3D printers are so amazing. I just bought on a few weeks ago and it’s unbelievable how many possibilities you have with a 3D printer. I am currently building a small rocket with my friends and the 3D printer is a great help.
(…) and also be totally sealed against dust entry (for EVA activity you'll need double air locks with built in shower facilities.
I have seen some concepts where the EVA suits are stored outside and the suits themselves have the airlock built in. This is because some dust particles are so tiny that they cannot be filtered and would be deposited in the lungs.
#33 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Settlement design » 2021-04-07 04:04:43
Hello everyone!
Thank you very much for all the comments!
I am currently working on an overall concept for a settlement design and will take all your suggestions into consideration.
(The concept should be ready around July and I'm already looking forward to your opinions).
Short introduction about me:
I'm Noah, 20 years old and from Germany. I am currently studying physics at the ETH in Switzerland. In the past I did several architecture internships and participated in an architecture competition.
My English is not perfect and suggestions for improvement are ALWAYS welcome.
#34 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Settlement design » 2021-04-07 03:32:58
Since we don't have any of that on Mars, we need nuclear power. No part of modern civilization was ultimately built using solar panels and batteries
Attractive approach to go back in history.
I agree that it would be risky to build a city with only solar panels. A mix of different types of energy supply looks interesting. To diversify is a good concept in most cases.
E.g. nuclear power and solar cells.
Don't create a Rube Goldberg of a device, merely to satisfy an engineer's desire to prove how intricate and complex they can make a simple task. If a hand-operated bit driver can get the job done acceptably well, then you don't need a battery-powered computer-controlled drill and charger. Simple machines may never attain the absolute pinnacle of achievable efficiency through electrification and computerization, but they also tend to be very reliable and durable.
Keep thinks simple. I absolutely agree!
The most practical construction materials are Sulfur-based concrete bricks made from local Sulfur and aggregates,
For the building, the material is the *most important * factor, it will affect the construction process, energy consumption, LSS ...
I will take a closer look at the sulfur based concrete.
Cleaning
I removed the question with "almost no cleaning" and implemented your suggestion.
#35 Re: Exploration to Settlement Creation » Settlement design » 2021-04-07 03:29:15
Then Temperature regulation must be added to the LSS topic. Staying warm and unfrozen is of great importance!
Thanks, it is a very important part of the LSS! I have implemented the suggestion.
#36 Exploration to Settlement Creation » Settlement design » 2021-04-06 03:08:00
- Noah
- Replies: 357
(For good quality open: https://i.imgur.com/3Vuueu9.png )
The goal can and should change over time.
Discussion
I will periodically post a topic I am working on or will be working on and if you have any advice or useful information, feel free to post a comment.
#37 Re: Meta New Mars » Housekeeping » 2021-03-14 13:34:58
Hello!!!
Thanks for the invitation. I hope for a great teamwork in the future!
I am very interested in Mars buildings, if you/ or if you know someone, feel free to send me a message.