New Mars Forums

dicktice,

To make observations and to perform EVAs on a rotating ship you could do a couple of things:

1.  Stop the ship.  I know this will need extra fuel, especially if you needed to start it up again.

2.  Use a small counter-rotating platform with whatever observation/communication instruments you want on it.  And, put an emergency hatch on the top of the Hab at the center.  You could go out this hatch and not be flung off into space - You would only be spinning (at 6 rpm).  After stopping your spin you could easily fly around and survey the ship to look for damage or whatever.  Just don't bump into it or it will push you away.  This hatch would be useful on Mars too if the main airlock/hatch was damaged on landing.

Why would you need to perform an EVA anyway.  Currently our astronauts stay inside the ISS or Shuttle unless their doing construction or fixing things like Hubble.  Even the crew of the Apollo 13 didn't need an EVA.  (I know it was a shorter mission, but the point is - they fixed things from the inside.)

As far as I understand centripetal and centrifugal force are just opposites.   In a spinning hab the centripetal force is what pushes things away from the center (artificial gravity).  The centrifugal force is the force pushing things to the center (leg muscles, the heart).  So you can use whatever word you want.  When one exists you automatically get the other.

P.S.  Why would I delete my reply?  My replies are always right. :;):

Here's the equation for the Silane reaction:

    SiH4 + 2CO2 --> SiO2 + 2C + 2H2O

In this reaction only 27% of the propellant mass is silane.  You get 73% of your fuel from the air.  All you need is a pump and probably some dust filters.  SiO2 and C are both solids so you can only use this fuel in a rocket, ramjet, or to fire a boiler of a steam engine. (Locamotives on Mars? ??? )

I'm not exactly sure about the Diborane reaction, but here is a try:

    B2H6 + 3CO2 --> B2O3 + 3C + 3H2O

I know the left side of the equation is correct - I just guessed on the right side, though.

This is the extent of my knowledge on the subject.  I also tried to find other fuels that would burn in CO2 on the web but came up empty.

P.S. Good point RobS.  If the diborane eats through your fuel tank it won't do us much good, will it?

Well after 40+ views and no replies this could mean two things:

1.  I am the only one in here who knows what burns in CO2, or

2.  Nobody cares about my stupid little Silane Hopper.

I will not let my ego be bruised so I will assume its #1.

I will now enlighten you all with my profound knowledge of the subject. :;):

Diborane (B2H6) and Silane (SiH4) both burn in Carbon Dioxide (CO2).

Diborane has a specific impulse of 300 seconds, but is rare on Mars.
Silane is found everywhere on Mars, but has a specific impulse of 280 seconds.

A use for these fuels other than for planetary hoppers might be for Mars Sample Returns.

This is what is required for a Methane/Oxygen fueled MSR mission:
1.  A 300 watt RadioIsotopic Thermal Generator (RTG)
2.  An In Situ Propellant Production Plant (ISPPP)
3.  Seed Hydrogen (about 1/18 the total propellant mass).

If you didn't want to use radioactive materials (the RTG) or if you didn't trust the ISPPP, you could use a Diborane/CO2 fueled MSR which would require:
1.  Solar Panels
2.  A pump to aquire the CO2
3.  A tank full of Diborane (about 1/4 the total propellant mass).

Personally I favor the Methane/Oxygen approach because it demonstrates a vital technology (ISPP) for human missions that would follow.  But, if you want to get the 'Anti-nuclear' vote or if the people in charge are skiddish about the ISPP you should use the Diborane.

dicktice,

Here is the Mars Direct Home Page

If you don't have a copy of "Case for Mars" yet, just go here.

soph,

duh...

It seems dicktice is having trouble getting a copy.

Distribution would be extremely easy if say there were only 10 people on the whole planet and they all lived in the same village.  Distribution gets more difficult as the population expands.  Also, distribution gets easier as locals produce more of their own goods.  We just need to help the locals get back on their feet.

If we can't expand then there must be something seriously wrong.  And, I would bet it is killing people by the millions (war, tyrrany, corruption) so the population pressures would be relaxed anyway. :;):

Shaun,

It sounds like you gave them a strong foundation.  I'm sure they will come to their senses some day.  Whatever you do don't push them away.  Let yourself be the one they can turn to when they want help.  You're doing a great job.

Earlier I said my siblings haven't had problems with alcohol, drugs, or tobacco.  My step-siblings have, though.  But, even with only a good example from one of their parents, they are all pretty much back on track now.

They'll turn around.  I'm sure of it.

If you don't get off your lazy butt and work Woman will kick you out of the house.
Woman is entitled not to multiply - get off me you sick pig.

I suppose that's what my wife would reply.

But seriously -
I assume you're taking the Malthusian point of view:  If everybody keeps multiplying we will use up all of our resources.

Mass starvation isn't happening like Malthus predicted.  Large parts of the world are suffering from poverty and starvation, I agree, but it's mainly because of bad distribution not population pressures.  The world produces enough food and clothes for everybody but people can't get it unless they pay for it.  So, if everybody just shared a little everybody would have the necessities of life.

One thing Malthus omitted from his equation was technology and human enginuity.  If we were all just a bunch of apes - yes, we would have had mass starvation centuries ago.  But, our farming techniques, transportation, communication, and even our society, have all improved.  We will beat Malthus.

Here's a thought:
Let's say someday the Earth is swelling with 100 billion people.  Most on Earth decide that's enough.  The people still have all the necessities of life (they have perfected recycling by then).  They just want to stop multiplying.  They decide that one child per person is the limit.  To satisfy the second basic right (to multiply) a person could just move off Earth.  There is plenty of elbow room in the universe.  Now, this is when the Mormons would start colonizing other planets!  "Multiply and replenish the Earth/Asteroid/Moon".

soph,

Ever heard of the Peso, Yen, Euro, Ruble, Deutchmark, Colon...(my spelling is probably way off)
Ever heard of English, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Italian, German, French...

There are things called "currency exchange" and "translation".

Many different languages and currencies exist and a lot of stuff gets done.

The whole NASA debacle is just because the organization couldn't decide on which system to use at the time.  Really stupid mistake - but I gaurantee it won't happen again.

On Mars I would just encourage everyone to learn as many languages as possible.  BTW, in America well into the 1830s or even later local banks were printing their own money.  America was doing quite well before and after that time.  I think a variety of languages and currencies actually help keep society and the economy vibrant.

Here's an idea:

If illegal drug sales are funding the Columbian insurgents then just legalize the drugs.  Once legalized the price will drop so much the paramilitary insurgents will lose their backing.  This would be very analogous to prohibition.  During prohibition gangs were killing people left and right.  Once it ended the gangs lost control of the market.  I haven't heard of anyone getting shot during a moonshine raid lately, have you?  Once again, we have to look at the root cause of the problem and stop it there.  Just supplying weapons and training to the Columbian govt. isn't going to do the job.

BTW, legalizing drugs probably isn't the actual root of the drug problem.  We probably have to go deaper - like raising our kids with some self esteem and respect for their bodies so they don't want to do drugs in the first place.  But, that is more of a long term project.  Legalizing drugs could happen tomorrow.

Dicktice,

Why haven't you read up on 'Mars Direct'?  This is the 'New Mars' forum!!!  Sadly I think many in here haven't read 'The Case for Mars', so grading on the curve you're not doing too bad.  But tell me why.  Why haven't you read 'The Case for Mars'?!?!?!

I'll assume your too busy saving the world or something so if you like I'll start a new topic with a quick summary of the Mars Direct plan.  Just let me know if you want to see it.

A.J.Armitage,
You get my point I see.  Orwell didn't just make this stuff up.  Were you trying to counter my tidbit?  Because, we are in total agreement.

Here is something I would do about foreign policy:
    Stop selling weapons to and training soldiers in other countries.  Who knows when we will declare them the enemy.  And I don't like the idea of 'X third world country' launching a cruise missile at 'Y third world country.'  Let them develope there own stinking killing machines.