New Mars Forums
You are not logged in.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Announcement
#26 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Microwave Sattelites - Sending solar energy to from orbits. » 2004-10-05 20:24:02
However, those ions are potentially useful. What about adapting Nicholas Tesla's idea of atmospheric power transmission and using the ion trail itself to conduct electricity? Keep enough power flowing down the pipe, and you won't need the laser anymore.
As I gather it electricity is just an EM wave with a low frequency. So an EM with a frequency of 50-60 Hz
But in power transmission lines the Voltage is many times higher to keep the resistance losses low. R= U/I (if I remember correctly U = Voltage, I = Ampere and R = Resistance).
So instead of ramping up the Voltage you increase the frequency of the EM wave. This gives you microwaves. And as I gathered microwaves don't need any ion trail or anything else to transmitted.
However I think they can only be transmitted from point to point like FM radio unlike AM radio which bounces of the higher atmosphere.
#27 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Microwave Sattelites - Sending solar energy to from orbits. » 2004-10-05 20:07:44
My guess: It won't work for this app, but don't throw away the cocktail napkin sketches just yet.
Orbit to surface microwave transmission losses due to the atmosphere occur mostly because of ionization in the air. Creating an ionized "shield" between the transmitter and rectenna is unlikely to help.
My bad I have done some further http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_powe … te]reading and noticed that the atmosphere has not that a big impact on microwaves. That is if you choose the right frequency (not that of water).
However there is the possible impact of all those microwaves heating the atmosphere a bit.
And as I gather from this http://playspoon.com/microwaves/]site microwaves are a non ionizing EM wave. Those that do ionize are UV, X-rays, gamma rays and cosmic rays. However you can ionize a gas with microwaves but that's by heating it into a plasma. But then the power of the microwaves that would come down from the power satellites would be weaker then the sunlight hitting a square meter of the Earth's surface. But converting microwaves in to electricity has an efficiency of 98% compared to other forms of "green" power this is very high.
So forgot my post about the lasers as the atmosphere is not the problem just the cost to R&D and launch those satellites.
---
{edit}Marsdog had corrected me on this already
#28 Re: Mars Rovers / University Rover Challenge » Simulation of Intelligent Robotic Colony » 2004-10-04 18:06:27
Check out breve, it has a 'physical environment' as option, where stuff behaves like in the real world, you can even alter the gravity...
http://www.spiderland.org/breve/]breve 1.9
'bout the electronics i'm not too sure they've implemented that, but there is stuff in it that would work a bt like it (at least, I think)
Aah, I was looking in the dictionary what breve ment, all the the time. I couldn't find it so I figured it was either slang or a spelling mistake.
#29 Re: Mars Rovers / University Rover Challenge » Simulation of Intelligent Robotic Colony » 2004-10-04 14:06:32
Some posts ago I mentioned simulating robots in software. This should take a lot of processing power but as the general talk is about beambots, which have no brains and limited function. I don't think this will be the case in this situation.
However I wonder what would be needed to simulate such an situation.
This what I think what's needed:
1.Simulate the laws of physics: What goes up must go down.
2.Mechanics: Simulated parts that work together to create movement.
3.Electronics: Simulated electronics parts and there properties.
4.Enverioment: A 3D enverioment.
A1: This is already done in modern 3D games.
A2:When I was at school we had AutoCAD which is a design program. We run at on 486 PC's and early pentiums and you could at that moment already see how you design would work. So a modern day PC should be able to better and more detailed.
A3:See A2
A4:See A1
So as I see it, it should be possible here and now to have such a program. I would be great because if you would hook a genetic algoritme you can mix different bots and get the best bot out of it.
However I feel I'm missing something.
PS: Keep in mind I understand that anything like this would just be a simulation but it's at zero cost and will give you a better understanding. And besides that you could be change all kinds of variables like how much damage a part would get over time and restrict the bot. Or the weather and what influences it would have, etc, etc, etc.
#30 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Microwave Sattelites - Sending solar energy to from orbits. » 2004-10-04 13:46:01
I was just thinking of this technology.
As I understand it. It's using solar energy collected by sattelites and sending it to Earth or any other planet using microwaves.
However this will work not in reality especially on Earth as the atmosphere is too thick and the microwaves send to Earth will have extreme high loses in the form of resistance from the atmosphere.
So my point of this post is maybe using a guidance laser for this technology. Be it from Earth or the power sattelite or an assistive sattelite. That laser will create a path of ionized air in which the microwaves will travel. Or better said will want to travel as it's the path of least resistance.
What do you think of that?
#31 Re: Mars Rovers / University Rover Challenge » Simulation of Intelligent Robotic Colony » 2004-10-04 02:57:24
I set up this thingy:
http://marsrobotcolony.bloggingportal.com]A Robot Colony on Mars
But I have my doubts... My way of putting things on paper/computer is just too unstructured, sigh.
Oh well...
I went to your portal site and wanted to comment on one of the threads there but I was not able to login.
Have you thought of contacting for instance the (german) guys who want to send a privatly funded satellite to Mars. From what I read they are member of the organization http://www.amsat.org/]Amsat who put up private sats on earth orbit all the time. So they have a lot of partical know how. I saw there is also a belgium division called http://www.amsat-on.be/]AMSAT-ON.
#32 Re: Not So Free Chat » Scientist: Ireland is Atlantis? » 2004-10-01 09:51:42
Was there not an explorer who made an ocean going vessel out of reeds similar to what was available to the early egyptians.
Also if we want a culture that did do a lot of real ocean exploration let us look to the polynesians who where present everywhere in the pacific and easily could have reached Egypt. Frankly if there is anyone who could have done the early trading that resulted in Cocoa leaves etc being in Egypt it would have been them. And the polynesians where in the americas it was the tribes coming over the ice bridge over the alaska and siberia that displaced them.
I remember seeing a site about egyptians being in whats now called Australia. They found hieroglyphs in Australia.
You be the judge your self if this is possible and look at at this http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& … rch]google search
However I also know they found Greek coins as far as whats called Tanzania nowadays.
#33 Re: Not So Free Chat » 1st Presidential debate - who won? » 2004-10-01 09:32:16
It is to bad that during the primaries that we are left with only 2 terrible candidates only if we could invent the wildcard as a non party candidate, kind of like an independent to liven things up.
I guess it is time to do a write in vote.... or to chose the lesser of the two evils in this case..
Hey there is always Nader!!
#34 Re: Human missions » China The Dominant Superpower In 20 Years..... - What does this mean for US? » 2004-10-01 09:08:46
I think China has always been China like the soviet union has always been that and Cuba, Vietnam and North Korea been there selfs.
However, I think what you see now in China is not that different from what Lenin had planned if Stalin hadn't taken power.
#35 Re: Not So Free Chat » Anyone see Larry King Live last night? » 2004-10-01 09:02:36
The Rabbi said there IS "we and they," and said some people and groups -are- evil. He also praised American Christianity as being the protector and nurturer of the greatest levels of human freedom the world has ever known.
Only fair, seeing as how we've pulled their butts out of the fire a few times.
When did Christianity do this?
#36 Re: Not So Free Chat » 1st Presidential debate - who won? » 2004-10-01 05:30:14
Wouldn't it be better for the USA a president that doesn't do to much? I mean he will just manage (executive power of the federal government). And let the people and businesses do their things.
I think someone who just does his job and doesn't go into all weird and unsure endeavors is as good as anything else.
#37 Re: Unmanned probes » UK wants to go for Mars the ESA way - Now a partner in Aurora program » 2004-10-01 05:22:29
Yes and no...
Europe could either licence the MER design, saving lots of R&D, but that way learn nothing, engineering wise.... or try to build one themselves, learning a lot, at, of course a greater cost, but giving engineers something to improve their skills, I guess...
ESA doesn't stop building Arianes because of the HLV's NASA uses, so...
They can use the saved R&D money on other R&D. With space technologies there is always something to develop. Why reinvent the wheel when you can invent something new?
#38 Re: Unmanned probes » UK wants to go for Mars the ESA way - Now a partner in Aurora program » 2004-10-01 05:20:32
Of course - Aurora is a flawed plan anyway - essentialyl paying to develop a MER scope rover when our friends the other side of the pond have already developed a beautiful working MER! Seems stupid really.
Not invented here syndrome.
It's kind of stupid as companies such as Boeing or even the US army have no problems using technologies made and/or developed in Japan, UK, Germany, Israel and others.
But then those examples must be efficient and not try to spend as much as possible money on something that someone else can do better, cheaper and faster. ???
#39 Re: Not So Free Chat » Scientist: Ireland is Atlantis? » 2004-10-01 05:13:30
Yes I agree as I saw a documaintory that explained the evolution of the egyptian pyramids. The showed the very earlist pyramids, who looked not much better then a big pile of rocks. With primitive knownledge and tools the simplest big building that you can build is a pyramid shape.
Also look how at the greek archictecture and roman. The romans invented the arc, which allowed them to build better and bigger building and this with their famous cement.
#40 Re: Human missions » China The Dominant Superpower In 20 Years..... - What does this mean for US? » 2004-09-27 15:18:23
smurf975,
Don't be arrogant, yes the US has the technological weaponry, be the volume is on china's side. They have the largest standing army number 20x the US Army without doing a general call up that would be 100 - 500x, Even the US military commanders know and doing underestimate what china can do.
China is awakening and the world , including the america are not ready for the country, within 20 years china will be as powerful economically as america, also with the Asian and pacific countries building a union of countries this will add more markets for china to expand and grow.
You don't understand that china will be the biggest spark in the world's economy and may tip Amercia off the top to whom the world looks to for economic guidance.
I was not trying to be arrogant.
Anyway is it possible that the USA will be the soviet union of the 2010's? I mean the USA has the highest defence budget (based on GDP) of the developed countries. Like the USSR had.
If China is reluctant to do engage the USA in a full military industrual complex like the USSR did, however still keeping their economic growth, I can forsee a nasty future for the USA.
Anyway thats the game I would play, let the USA spend their money on useless millitary equipment and us on the economy. The real possible enemy isn't not a nation anyway, they can't be stopped by stealth and moab bombs.
#41 Re: Not So Free Chat » Scientist: Ireland is Atlantis? » 2004-09-27 14:34:50
AFAIK Plato was a story teller. So why must the atlantis story be true?
#42 Re: Human missions » China The Dominant Superpower In 20 Years..... - What does this mean for US? » 2004-09-19 21:19:41
Euler,
Yes, I agree, and even if the terrorists kill 1 million or even 10 million in china, that would unleash the world's largest land army, and if that happens all rules are off, and the islamic world, had their chance to spot the terrorism, china doesn't run on the social responsible rules that the american's run under.
Russia, will unleash its military on its problem with not mercy for those people, because the terrorist acts against their children.
I pity the islamic countries through the world, unless they come out a attack terrorism and the schools and infrastructure that aids them, they might find their whole country on the end of the sword.
I hope that china doesn't get attacked and leave the sleeping dragon alone. If the terrorists want to use fourth generation warfare rules then we should to, block commerce from states to the rest of the world because they harbour terrorists, or who don't work against terrorism.
This was a part of my between the lines points.
Who are todays super powers?
For me they are, in random order and not in particular based on military power but on military potential.):
1. USA
2. China
3. Russia
4. Europe (EU)
At this moment Russia and the USA are fighting a war against terrorists. If China were forced to join this war, things may be very different. So if China has its own big attack which is possible then a lot of Chinese funds like now US funds will be diverted to other (military) goals. This will disrupt the Chinese economy.
#43 Re: Human missions » China The Dominant Superpower In 20 Years..... - What does this mean for US? » 2004-09-19 20:50:49
I think a terrorist attack in China is just waiting to happen.
Yes, terrorism attacks can happen in China, but the Chinese will not go into a panic when attacked like the Americans do. When the Chinese are attacked by terrorists, they will say 'so what?' and shrug it off.
So from the CIA factbook Russia had in 2003, 143 782 338 people (about 144 million people).
And China has 1 298 847 624 (about 1.3 billion people)
So lets take the last major terrorist attack in Russia (the one in the Russian school) were about 400 people died.
400 people is ((400/143 782 338 )x100) 2,7819828607878110870613329434106e-4 % of the total Russian people.
Now say a similair scale attack would happen in China. This means that 3613 people would die. Which is not nothing.
#44 Re: Human missions » China The Dominant Superpower In 20 Years..... - What does this mean for US? » 2004-09-19 19:15:26
Don't underestimate the chinese people, government and culture. I wouldn't, china will obtain their goals within their timeframe. Amercia is focusing alot on terrorism and not on what and where the country is going, we are the one's stressing out, We keep building forward like the chinese and when the terrorism head pops up , we clean the floors, ( terminate the terrorists ) and move on.
I read the speech of A. Scharwzenegger that he had at the rep. convention in NY.
In that speech he said that in the 50-60 everyone said that the US should fear the soviets. But it didn't happen the soviets even died.
Also the USA economy would be surpassed by Germany and Japan in the 80ies. This also didn't happen.
So what makes China really more special then the Soviets, German and Japan?
---
I think a terrorist attack in China is just waiting to happen. Why do I think that? Well the inland (west) of China has a lot of different peoples and cultures. Of which some are Islamic. I'm not saying that this is the receipt for a terrorist attack. But one very important aspect is that the Chinese government is dominated by the coastal Chinese people. The others are still kinda of backward/underdeveloped and don't have very much to say in the policies.
Basically China is like a smaller Russia.
So what can happen in Russia it can happen in China.
#45 Re: Mars Rovers / University Rover Challenge » Simulation of Intelligent Robotic Colony » 2004-09-17 20:31:34
Well... that breve simulator is waaay cool, but I'm currently wondering what would be the most cost-efficient way to do go: build real hardware and tinker with it, or model it...
Maybe a combination: build one 'bot, look how it works, and drop the model in breve, go on using modeling.
Too bad bree currently doesnt support multiple complex bots... would be real cost efective: build one bot and 'virtually' multiply it, to see how they would work together...
Still, an interesting program.
I was thinking of something like a mix of a life simulator (which you have now as a screensaver) and a realtime 3D (simple)physics engine borrowed from doom3/quake and an autocad program. The life simulator for the simple beambot like AI, the 3D engine for the simulated environment and the autocad program for the electronics and mechanics simulation.
Cost effective: Well most modern machines and cars are first designed in an autocad like program and if all the simulations work in there they build a prototype. So why not for robotics? However now like the bots run in a computer generated 3D environment for some time. Hook up some genetic algorithmes and then build a prototype of the best bot.
About computer processing power. If you would have such a piece of software for the beambots you talk about often. I'll bet you can emulate many of them on a common PIV Dell machine.
#46 Re: Mars Rovers / University Rover Challenge » Simulation of Intelligent Robotic Colony » 2004-09-17 14:16:47
Smurf,
heh, yes. I guess it's because the 'fuzzyness' of the circuitry, the constant fluctuations.. If you run that throug a sim, you'd see your engines run... but apparently erratically, so you won't be much wizer... only if you 'bolt on' a sim of the hardware of the robot (wheels, sensors... ) in relation with its envionment, you'd be able to see whether it behaves 'good' or 'bad'
That's exactly where i think breve could help... it models physical world stuff, and has some neural net capabilities, so...
I know it hard to simulate the mechanics of the bots. As on Mars you will have all sorts of problems like the fine dust.
But you want to test the idea not? Then have a simulation that simulates the movements of the legs/wheels and other parts. Just like it would be an ideal situation doesn't matter if its real or not, we are just looking for if it would work without spending mucho dineros. Then plug in the software (ai) and see if it works. Then make the simulation a bit harder, like all sorts of objects that the emulated bot must conquer. And see if it works and make modifications if needed. Other legs/wheels or improve the AI.
#47 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Martian Nuclear Proliferation - How will it affect development, etc? » 2004-09-17 14:03:09
Absolutely true that more people have died in the last century. We now have the ability to wipe out everyone, something the Mongols couldn't do (and they tried, destroying entire cities that resisted them, building small hills of skulls as a warning to those who resisted them).
You have a very interesting family.
---
Anyway, it was not the goal of the mongol rulers to kill everyone even if they could (which they could even with their primitive arms). Its just that they wanted to keep their own losses down and actually the losses of the other party also low. Hey, a kingdom with out people is useless.
They did this by rulling by fear. You would be to afraid to stand up and fight, which made things simpler for the mongol rulers. People were to afraid to fight and start a war which kept losses low on both sides.
I'm not saying its good to terrorise other peoples but its an effective way of ruling a great empire and to get the war over with, instead of stretching it out like WWI and WWII Korea and Vietnam. Look even Hitlers Generals at first used the mongol strategies (Blitzkrieg or shock and awe from GWII) and WWII was over in a couple of months. However they were not able to kill of Russian and English resistance, which streched out the war and made Germany lose the war.This why america lost vietnam and is having military problems in Iraq. Like the mongols you just do whats needed to end any form of resistane. That is if you want to win the war.
#48 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Martian Nuclear Proliferation - How will it affect development, etc? » 2004-09-16 17:14:38
Cobra Commander, we are using "mature" in different ways. By "mature" I mean a society that has learned how to channel aggression and thus avoid violence and war; a society that has instituted means for establishing justice.
Do you know that more humans have died in the last 100 years due to human agression then in any other point of human history?
#49 Re: Not So Free Chat » Hand Dominence - ...just curious/for fun » 2004-09-14 20:47:00
To all I recommend http://www.typingmaster.com/index.asp]the software called typing master which helped me to touch type (without looking) however I didn't finish the course.
Have a look at it and try the demo. And enjoy faster and more productive typing.
#50 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » A Dose of Hard, Cold, Economic Reality - International Cooperation is Essential » 2004-09-14 09:27:58
*Hmmmmm. Well, usually I avoid gender discussions (because there's enough blame to go around and "it takes two"). And the added consistent social reinforcement bombardment infants are exposed to from day one, pertaining to whether the blanket they're bundled up in in the hospital nursery is pink or blue... :;): Then the complexity, like this issue...
Actually, I've known and seen a lot more women willing to marry and settle down with guys who are less attractive (by society's dictates of what is attractive) than vice versa. It seems women are generally more willing/able to fall in love with a man who isn't particularly attractive nor possesses "status" (in the community or otherwise). I've seen more women willing to tough it out with a man who has been disabled from an injury or who is suffering from a debilitating illness than vice versa.
Perhaps my perceptions are incorrect, but my comments are based on experience and observation.
And even a cursory glance at any magazine rack in any store is enough to "tell" me repeatedly that I'm "not good enough" (for anything) unless I look like Bimbo Flavor of the Month. :laugh:
Both genders have their unique strengths and resiliencies...and both have their unique stupidities which contribute to all -this-.
Just wanted to make a few comments, and sorry if this is a bit further "off-topic."
--Cindy
Your perceptions are entirely correct, it's only that I generalize wildly which is unavoidable in a discussion like this, not to mention that I left out the unquantifiable factor of LOVE as a point on its own merits. And you're right, we're not only far out off-topic but dealing with a highly volatile subject.
In addition, and maybe I go too far by admitting to the fact, but I personally hold almost zero attraction for the "Bimbo Flavor of the Month", quite sure I never did.
I want a woman who is kind, considerate and responsible. Not something that risks blowing up in your face one way or the other. Adrenalin, as you know, is not a turn-on. And she 's a brunette, has a small round stomach, is somewhat garish and totally unfashionable.Allright, better stop now. ???
Well now you two are giving attractive and thin women a bad name just because of some person that is a nude model.
Whats is beatifull anyway? Its truely in the eye of the beholder. In some cultures they find overweight people beatifull in others tall people. Everytime you look and compare your self to one of those magazines you are following some other persons views of whats beatifull and not your own.