New Mars Forums

With the price of launch plummeting thanks to Elon's amazing reusable rockets, these are looking much more viable than they used to.

Considering a fuel delivery system is little more than a second stage with some extra plumbing, and the on-orbit or on destination utility of the second stages pressurized volume, the dream of a fully reusable launch system is all but realized.

Of course the MCT will once again overturn the table on space architecture, but only thing really lacking is a Bigelow module sized for the Falcon Heavy. It could probably match the ISS in volume on a single launch.

When and if he takes office, commercial space will have nearly all the pieces needed to go back to the moon in earnest. If he directed the full power of his ego towards an all commercial architecture, we could do a lot more the same amount of money.

NASA and SpaceX seem to have made it official...

SpaceX plans to debut Red Dragon with 2018 Mars mission

All the pieces are there, the heat shield, the aerodynamics, the SuperDraco retrorockets, ect, but I still can't see the capsule as an effective payload delivery system. Either you have to get through the heat shield, which as far as I know is not designed to come off without expensive modifications to the base design, or your going to use up so much of the payload weight to get the payload out of the main hatch of the capsule, or your going to have to so butcher the entire capsule that your going to lose whatever economy of scale your where out to gain by using the capsule. It's like stuffing a turkey through the beak.

Maybe going down through the heat shield is simpler than I'm giving them credit for, and then it makes a lot of sense. I just haven't seen anything to indicate that is an option. If they are going to make the next launch window, they've got to haul.

If going through the shield is an option, how practical would it be to launch with an ascent stage missile in the trunk, and have it dock with the main hatch in transit, and then put samples into Mars orbit for pickup. Probably not this time around, but for future missions.

They did a static test on the last recovered stage within a week. They are probably going to want to fly a couple of these with ballast until they break them before they get paying customers for these, but there is precious little room in the manifest for that. Brownsville can not come online soon enough.

Oddly, they could use this one for the Dragon 2 abort test later this year, but thats flying out of Vandenberg.

They still launched the payload at a fraction of what anyone else could, at least domestically.

They might eventually work out the landings for these high speed, high mass GEO payloads, or they could just use older rockets for these missions. Even the best 1st stage is only going to have a finite number of missions in it. Maybe after several LEO missions they send them "out to stud" on a GEO launch.

Should I try to get the trademark on "Poseidon's Glue Factory"?

That would solve the material problems.

After the addition of the Dreamchaser spaceplane to the rooster of delivery vessels last week, I couldn't help but note the potential of a spaceplane platform as a second stage. The potential is even more vivid with the more tubular yet similarly functioning X-37 platform. It's a tube with control surfaces and a heat shield. What do we need for a recoverable second stage? A tube with a heat shield and some means of a controlled landing.

Which is not to say that it is without challenges. The biggest is probably how to effectively interface the 3rd stage/payload on top of a fragile, heat shielded, nosecone. Plus balancing the added weight and performance. But I think as reusable launchers mature, overall performance will increase, overcoming the additional weight requirements.

Their Facebook page is reporting that leg #3 didn't lock into place.

Also, there where 12ft seas.

I wonder if there is a point at sea common enough where they could put a permanent platform, while maximizing any launch.

The biggest issue with cities on Mars is how do you protect them from meteorite impacts. While space architecture, inherently designed to function in harsh environments independent of a planetary biosphere is naturally more resistant than it's earth based counterparts when the population is dispersed, a concentrated population center is extremely vulnerable.

A fantastic technical achievement. But sticking the landing is just half the battle. There's a big difference between their Grasshopper test flights and this operational launch, so this is still virgin territory. Now they have to pick that booster apart to make sure its reusable. And then they have to fly it a few times without picking it apart to prove the concept truly viable.

Still, they have already reduced launch costs considerably, and are on the cusp of slashing them in a transformative way. Its a testament of what one can do when you answer to a vision and not to shareholders.

One wonders if they will still make the effort to recover the second stage. While the first stage represents the vast majority of the cost, if you can land a capsule on a pad, you can land the second stage using all the same pieces. If nothing else, that is valuable pressurized volume that you've gotten to orbit. Waste not, want not.

Combined with the inaugural flights of the Falcon Heavy, the Dragon 2 capsule, and the BEAM module all next year, the pieces are falling into place. Poor Bigelow is basically stilling on their hands, waiting for affordable access, and it's right there. We are also due to see some renders of the Mars Colonial Transporter early next year, and after last night I think he will strike while the pad is still hot. It's unclear if that entails just a new launcher, a much larger capsule, or a full transit and surface architecture. There is a lot of ground work to be done.

I'd still want a Lunar Return to Stay before the decade is out. And other than surface hardware, there is very little left that would need to be produced. Providing that service can propel SpaceX's Mars development, just as providing service to the ISS has gotten them this far.

So, has anyone actually seen it?