New Mars Forums

Enyo is right on this one.

If we go to the moon with the idea that we will use it to help develope a Mars mission then congress will start trimming the budget and we will lose Mars.

We should only go to the moon after the hardware for Mars has been developed.

That dress rehersal thing sounds a bit excessive, but a shorter trip to set up some telescopes would be good.  A short trip to the moon using Mars hardware would also boost everyones confidence in the Mars mission.  We will have regained the ground lost after Apollo.

I also think that government sponsored colonization won't happen.  Mars will eventually undergo an Apollo-like exploration phase to be later abandoned by the government.  If Mars isn't abandoned it will at best have only a small outpost.

Let me make an analogy for another way of colonizing Mars.

In the early 20th century big businesses knew that prestige was a major factor for making more money.  That's why they started building sky scrapers.  It was a cutting edge technology that only the "big boys" of the business world could accomplish.  Sky scrapers were by no means necessary.  They were expensive and dangerous (earthquakes, fires).  But, they brought their owners much more recognition than any other kind of building.  And, as businesspeople know, brand (or company) recognition is one of the keys to success.

Now, in the 21st century the cutting edge is space.  Big companies can easily afford sending explorers and researchers to Mars.  The actual discoveries made by these explorers may not even come close to offsetting the costs of supporting them there but the recognition generated by merely being able to put people on Mars will benefit the company greatly.

If we continue with the analogy, no skyscrapers have been built just to be demolished a few years later.  They continue to be in use today and more and more are being built by the newest "big boys".  The same may be the case for Mars.  To become recognized as a true "big boy" in the 21st century you might have to build a base on Mars. ???

I think that we should modify the energia right now and get some people to Mars as soon as possible.  What concerns me is the diameter of the payload for energia.

Energia and Ares could put a hab on top with a diameter of 6 - 8 meters.  That is fine for the early explorers, but normal people are used to having a lot of floor space.  When colonization begins I think we will need a Big Fat Booster.

Here's an idea that looked nice on my sketchpad, at least.

We start with a core booster with a diameter of 10 - 11 meters.  The Saturn V was 10 meters wide.  On top we put a hab 14 - 15 meters wide.  And to finish it off we strap on two first stage boosters.  These can start out as expendable and later be designed for fly back.

Clark was speculating that as launch costs from Earth fall the advantage of launch from Mars will dissapear.

I agree that if Mars has to depend on all the infrastructure that Earth has to depend on then Earth will always have the advantage.  But, does Mars need everything Earth needs to launch something to orbit?  I think not.

Earth uses (and for environmental reasons will probably use for a long time to come) chemical rockets for surface launch.  Mars on the other hand has no EPA or tree huggers (no trees to hug), so Nuclear rockets should be available for surface launch from the get go.

That's just one example of how Mars can maintain its edge.  Mars will have more room to innovate while society on Earth will want safety above all else, thus slowing Earth launch progress.

OK.  The stuff we have discussed so far is either intangible and uncertain (books,movies) or only useful for a future uncertain market (moon or LEO resuply).  And selling sand might pay for a sample return or two but that's about it.

Deuterium is an actual resource that is known to exist on Mars and currently has a market on Earth.  It is used in CANDU nuclear reactors.  The CANDUs use heavy water (Deuterium and Oxygen) to moderate their reactors.

Deuterium costs $10 million per tonne (1996 prices).  Shipping 100 tonnes of it back to earth would give the colonists a billion dollars.

Deuterium is five times more abundant in martian water than earth water.  So if all the processing and shipping of martian deuterium were less than five time the cost of doing it on earth, it would actually be a profitable venture.  Personally, I don't think it would be that efficient, but it would help offset the costs of colonizing mars to a great extent.

Does anyone know the current market demand for deuterium?

Hello all.  I'm going to college in Colorado and I'm a member of the Mars Society.  I just started writing one of the millions of stories (about mars) floating around in my head.  But don't worry.  I'm not just here to get information out of you for my book.  I like the threads I've read so far, so I think I'll stick around.

For my first post I just wanted to get a list of all possible exports available to future martians.  Let's not limit ourselves to physical resources.  I want to translate any dollar amounts into import mass.  I suppose we can assume the following conservative estimates:

Cost to LEO (Proton):  $4,000 per kg,
Percent of mass in LEO that reaches Mars (the payload): 30%

I'll start with an easy one (with absolutely no guarantee of success):

Books -- A book written by a martian settler may have the appeal to become a bestseller back on Earth.  Let's say a million copies are sold and the writer gets one dollar a piece.  With a million dollars that settler can buy 75 kg of imports.  Not a lot, but it's a start.

What else is out there?