New Mars Forums

At least its a Bush Dynasty we elected. in China I hear, the Communist Party chooses its own and the Chinese people have got no choice except that which the Communist Party allows them. China has come a long way, but it is still a one-party state, it doesn't matter whether that party is called "Communist" or not, what is true is that those people who hold power in government will do everything they can to stay in power, and in China that means guarding the levers of power very carefully, and not allowing the people any say in choosing the government. Any movement by China into space will be a way for those in power to aggrandize their positions in government and build additional power bases in space. Dictatorship is the simplest form of government and the easiest one to implement, all it requires is for one to have control over the military and by pointing the guns at the people, he can make laws and be judge jury and executioner if need be. Setting up a democratic system with checks and balances requires much more work. It would be good if we can get to Mars first and set up a democratic government their so that others that follow would have to abide by the laws of this democracy, rather than the other way around where a dictatorship gets set up and additional settlers must learn to bow to the authority. I'd just rather not have Empires in Space, I am a Republican and that is the type of government I prefer, and naturally that implies getting there first.

So if someone steals my wallet in a crowd, I can go on a shooting spree, is that it? You equate property theft with murder! Do you live in a society where they execute all thieves? Do you believe in the Death Penalty? You seem to believe in the Death Penalty for Jews, don't you. Now if someone can be executed for property theft without trial or jury by any individual who happens to be Palestinian, don't you think equally any Jew who's had a relative murdered by a Palestinian can seek his own justice, with his gun? If you apply this kind of justice then you must apply it equally. If a theft warrents the victim to go execute anybody he wants, and that is what the Palestinians do, then the same system applies to any Jew in this country who thinks he's been wronged. So how can you as an anarchist find anything wrong with what's going on in Israel or the Middle East? It seems a blood bath is what you want, so I wouldn't begrudge the Israelis the right to participate. It isn't fair, the Israelis have better weapons, well anarchy isn't fair, it is just random, and the thing about anarchy is that it never lasts, there is always someone who imposes order in the end. I don't know why you complain about Israeli actions, it is just war after all, war is chaos, and war is anarchy, maybe its not fair for the Palestinians, but then again, no one made them attack the Israelis, it was their decision, and now they reap the consequences.

As for theft of land, it is merely a case of the theft of stolen property. I don't suppose the Palestinians have the deed or the land title for this land. I didn't think so, the Jews say their ancestors lived on this land, and the Palestinians have no right to tell them otherwise because they can't prove they own the land either. If they go on a shooting spree, then the Israelis are going to win, and their is no reason to restrain the Israelis, as it is not to their advantage to be so restrained. Under a system of anarchy, might equals right after all, there is no authority to say who is wrong. So I say, let them fight it out, and w3hen someone loses the War is over. Peace is only a tactic for the losing side to recover from their last fight, regroup and fight again. Since the Palestinians are so insincere about wanting peace, I don't see why the Israelis should give them a break. I predict that the Palestinians through their shenanegans will get another Likud government into power in Israel on an "I told you so" platform, and this time there will be no letup in the fighting. Olmert tried giving them land and it didn't work, he listend to what people like you had to say, but as you demostrate you don't have their best interests at heart, so why should they listen to you?

That's kind of the point, there is chaos and confusion and an anarchist would soak it all right in.

Notice that this is all fiction. The real life anarchist that comes to my mind is the one who assassinated Czar Alexander of Russia. Czar Alexander was a reformer, he wanted to make Russia a Constitutional Monarchy, and transfer more power to the people, and in the midst of making that reform, he was cut down by anarchists, and his son Czar Nicolaus II held on to power all the more tightly and believed in the divine right of kings all the more so because of that act of assassination by the anarchist, thus paving the way for the Boshevik Revolution. Some anarchists acted in that, they got their precious anarchy - meaning the absense of order, but chaos proved to be not so popular with the Russian People and so many supported the Bolsheviks and they got the upper hand and imposed their own order on society which intailed the loss of individual freedoms. It would have been much better had Czar Alexander been allowed to finish his program, at least the outcome would have been more predicatble than fomenting chaos and seeing which group of strongarms rose to the top to establish their own order.

Most would be oppressors value chaos when they are not in power, because of the opportunities such chaos provides them to topple governments and establish their own. Hitler was an anarchist at one time, he provoked public disorder and it served him well.

The Iraq War Study group, or what I call the "Surrender Committee", not the Administration advocates talks with the enemy. if Iran was on another planet then I'd agree with you that they are not on our borders, but they aren't, it is a small world we live in these days, and unfortunately the ease of travel puts these fanatics right in our faces. The US needs a global presence in order to safegard our security, we need to be able to project our forces, because the World is such a small place. Simply massing troops at our border will not do, we need to prevent threats from arising at their points of origin, not at our borders. We don't have a solid missile defense. amd thanks to the Democratic victory, we may not have one for some time, as they are opposed to SDI. The Democrats want to roll out the "welcome mat" for any Iranian ICBMs that they may develop and watch them destroy our cities without lifting a finger to stop them. Its hard to believe that Jimmy Carter is such a Quisling, that he advocates talking with the enemy that gave him so much trouble during his Presidency and made him a one-term president, is he that stupid, or is he so fixated on defeating Bush that he's willing to let other things fall by the wayside? The problem with the Democrats is that they see only one enemy in this world, and that's George Bush, they have such a distorted viewpoint, that they endanger this country's security, all because of their monomania focused on defeating George Bush.

There, I've bolded the parts that make it connect. The Democrats really don't want America going to Mars anytime soon, they were happy to redirect the space community's enthusiasm towards launching the shuttle, conducting "Earth Science" from space, and really achieving not very much. They certainly don't want any accomplishments where the USA shows the world its technological prowess, this is because they really don't believe in the American System, to them it is only a vehicle to gain power and to spend tax dollars on their own projects. Most Democrats are citizens of the World, not really so patriotic.

What does space exploration have to do with commerce? My guess is they want to sell technology to the Chinese so they can get to the Moon and Mars first. I knew these Democrats were bad news for NASA. All they are good for is losing the War in Iraq! After that, the American people will sense that the Democrats really don't like their country very much, and will probably vote them out in the next election. I think we need a seperate Conservative Party to crowd the democrats out of the two party system. Voters voted for the democrats because they were the only alternative to the Republicans, I think they will find out in the next two years that they stand for other things as well, they certainly don't want the United States to regain its preeminance in space travel, they want to reduce NASA into an agency for launching communications and weather satellites. We desperately need two parties that are Pro-American, not the current Pro-American/Anti-American two party system where one party does all it an to help our adversaries. I don't think the Democrats are really interested in sending Americans to Mars, I'd think they'd much rather have some foreign astronaut plant a red flag in the red soil and speak something unmemorable in Chinese that most Americans can't understand.

It is not easy, and the difficulty increases with incresing numbers. If seven people have different ideas, and will not submit to a majority vote to settle the matter, what we have then in anarchy. It is no accident that every ship has a captain who makes all the executive decisions regarding the ship or delegates them accordingly. If you just had a crew and no superior or inferior officers, the ship would be in trouble as it requires the coordinated effort of the entire crew in order to get some where and stay out of trouble. In war when you have an army against an equally well armed mob, usually its the army following the strategy of a competant general that usually wins the conflict.

A colony on Mars is a dangerous place, the life support system must be properly maintained, food must be grown to feed the population and a whole host of other things must be taken care of, in other words a colony requires leadership and somebody who's responsible for making decisions in order to survive.

I never said life was like a TV show. I was asking you to consider what causes war. Even Hitler wasn't looking for War itself, but for the results War may bring. those defending themselves from Hitler didn't have a button they could push to get peace.

Let me put it to you this way. Would you want to launch a manned space mission with no one in charge. Forget about a Manned Mission to Mars. How about we just launch the Space Shuttle with seven people onboard and no one in charge, they aren't given any mission directives, and each one can do whatever he or she wants. Preprogram the shuttle to renderous with the International Space Station, and see what happens. Do you want your tax dollars paying for such a mission. What if the astronauts do nothing but acrobatics, have fights over who gets to wear the space suit. How about people wresteling in zero-gee bouncing off walls for the entire mission, and then they have disagreements about when to land the shuttle and where? If you can't have a space mission without anyone in charge, then how can you have a space colony?

We have a head start, no doubt about that, but the Chinese are rapidly expanding, and they got four times the population that we do. Once they get that population educated, there's no way we can catch up with them. So I say we should grab what we can like the Spaniards did of the New World, and stop waiting for some other country to beat us.

Anarchy is total chaos, lack of control, panic, everybody attacking everybody. How would you like to land on a planet with a constant brawl going on between all its occupants?

You start out by sending a mission where no one is in charge, and all the occupants of the spaceship are trying to beat the crap out of one another, and they do this all the way to Mars according to anarchic principles.

When they land on Mars, they start throwing Martian rocks each other, throwing punches and bashing each other on the head with scientific instruments. Total anarchy, the problem with anarchy is keeping the anarchy going. It is human nature to want order, and order is the enemy of anyone who whats chaos and confusion. The toughest part for any anarchist is to keep the brawl going, and to avoid the tendency of one side or another to win and establish his order over others.

Anarchy is an unnatural state for humans, most of them tire of the conflict after a while, and if you want to govern Mars this way, you'll have alot of trouble.