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Hi Shaun
It seems that you intend me with intention process,
with contradictory accusations of being
- too soft one way, not killing people
- too wild another way, detaining criminals in "inhuman" conditions.
Your implicite theory is that a human being NEVER changes his mind, what I don't agree with, except for you, may be.
For some people, this is a quality, for some others, its a sign of great stupidity.
Your other explicit critic is totally ideologic making of me some all leftist guy, what I can deny, my appreciation on politics and political men depends on their own qualities, no matter which side they are.
I disagree with CC, but he keeps my full respect, being of the ones which can autocriticise.

Pedophilia is a mental ilness, and here, we don't kill mentally ill people.
I teach sciences to children. In the actual society, many of them live in broken families, lacking affection, and some would easily report on me their need of love, as some substitute for a missing father. It breaks my heart to refuse them some plain tender gestures, as a caress on the cheek, a hand on the shoulder, because of the pedophilia cases and the pedophilia paranoïa.
I just allow myself to hold their hand when tended at me, let them kiss me at the end of the scholar year when we wont see again. Same for many teachers.
So, I must overcome the hate, disgust and deepest wildery that invade me at the thought that someone could do any arm to "my" children, and treat the pedophilic ones as sick peoples.

LO

Not defined as nobless, but you have your gentry, for sure.

Hi

This reminds me a yemenite tribe trial council. (Seen on TV report)
Imagine a large room, the village Ancients facing the population, most eating khat and smoking narghilees...
After chatchating, they take care of the village affairs.
A man is convicted of having killed another one in a quarrel.
After a long deliberation, the village Ancients council condems the man to death (by hanging)
The killed man's widow stands up and says:
"Killing this man will not bring my husband back.
Alone, I cannot cultivate my parcel of land and my chidren and I will starve, and also the murderer's family.
I wish that man to be condemned to cultivate my parcel of land half of the days of his life, so I can raise my family, and so he can raise his family too"
After a short discussion, the Ancients Coucil condemned the murderer following the widow's whish.
The murderer's wife stands up and kisses the widow.

I think that there is more wisdom in the case than in our occidental ordinary justice that would have sentenced the man to jail or to death, letting two families in distress.

What do the capital punishment supporters think of that ?

LO

Do you really think that everybody will admit that impalation under a burning sun until death follows is so more comfortable than an isolation cell ? ???
You just went mad in your arguments, admiitting you would approve torture, if not torture by your own hands, and as usual in case of such a undefendable coming out I would call uncontroled skidding , you have only attack left.
But the damage is done, I'm not the one who showed a middle ages mentality.

No, sir. Each word has its own meaning. All is not equal, and populace means a messy group of low social rank peoples.
It's up to you to take care of what you want to say.
Don't try to learn me the meaning of this french origin word.

LO
I never disdain peoples calling them "populace".
This is also a deep philosophic gap between us.

I think that a doctor's medical report would disagree with you.

LO

You're right, I never said that France could be some example,
having given the right of vote to women far after Turquey, and having made much money in slaves traffic.

I never said that criminals should be tenderly treated, as I could be accused of.
They acted against other humans, they are isolated from other humans.
The aim isn't to torture nor to kill them in the end, but to make them receiptive to other humans, something similar to drug deprivation, also to avoid to let them live in a environment where force balance is the only law that prevails in prisons.
The priciple being that the more they feel isolation as a torture, the fastest they will be ready for the reeducation program.

In fact, not. You forgot the "if" in lead of my message.
There is still about half of USA or less, it doesn't matter, I could live in good neighbourship, I guess,
in spite of the fact that the actual administration is rather hawkish and fully supports capital punishment

Hi Shawn

Abolition of capital punishment was in the Mr Mitterand's presidential program , he and the parliament which voted the abolition were democratically elected.
Even if public opinion at the time was rather favourable to it, the polls were showing that abolltionnist opinion was on constant strengthening.
Parliament decision just anticipated the reversal of opinion that happened latter on.

Worse than that, it is unefficient to deter criminals
I hate unefficient laws, I prefer an efficient police.

I don't say that, I think that CC, you and the capital punishment supporters are not fully logically coherent when saying :
A) Deliberately killing someone is a crime
B) Peoples can gather and decide to kill a criminal

Logical incoherence are other words for "absurdity" or "nonsense". My brain refuses nonsenses.
This is stronger an agument to me than moral or ethic ones

LO

Yes
"by chance", I wouln't dare say so...
A girl friend which has been knocked down and raped nightly in her own flat of house staircase, and one of my good clients who runned after a burglar he found in his office, and the burglar killed him with a knife wound at the heart in the street.
This client was a friend, letting me spend hollidays in his house in Corsica.

Right now, twenty years in a french jail, thirty years for a child rapist or a particularly cruel crime, (France has been condemned by the European Court of Justice for inhuman prison conditions of life) are not relativly short nor soft sentences. These sentences are unshortenable.
We are arguing on capital punishment, and that's about criminals, don't we ?
The total isolation cells without any goods I propose is much tougher in many aspects

Not at all, it's just trying to help the living peoples.

That is a policy of over retaliations.
Be wilder than criminals
This enlights me on the neverending violence of the american society

LO

Who are you to speak in the name of the victims ?

Before releasing a criminal, I think that the victims of rape have their word to say, (if they are alive...), or the victims' families in case of homicides.
In much cases, they really take care of the agressors' regrets and apologies.
Among the conditions of release the former criminal has to understand he must work hard and pay for the damages done to the victims or victims' families.
If you kill him, you have to pay part of the compensation the judge or the jury give to the victims, as a taxpayer...

LO
Hi Shawn
This is a problem of ethic, and if ethic or moral laws such as respect of human life can be or not overpassed by democratic votes.
I think that not killing humans should be an universal law and that organizing by any mean an institutionnal killing of any human being is lowering the society of humans to the murderers level, as the institutions should give the example of what is allowed or not.

LO

Hi Shaun, this was an answer to ecrasez_l_infame when I understood she meant that she'd rather be dead than be deprived of any contact with mankind. So, you are not allowed to take a grab on this quote and distort it at your own.

When penalty of death was abolished in France, the public opinion was in favour of penalty of death. Now, the french public opinion, and I guess the german one would vote for the abolition 7 versus 3, having seen that the homicides level had not increased since. Anyways, I know that vote cannot be a proof on what is good or bad, as Adolf Hitler has been brought to power by vote.

The public Authority cannot learn to people that killing is a crime if the Authority itself practices killing. That's pure hypocrisy.
Just as a father telling to his son "do what I say, don't do what I do"

The fact that a murderer knows that there is no sentence to death helps police, a surrounded murderer will rather surrender than fight for its life up to the end.
The blood crimes level in abolitionnist countries is not higher than in non abolitionnist countries, rate of murders per inhabitants in USA compared with the french one is an obvious evidence of this, (and to live in a gunless country).

When a Chicago Police Chief visited the city of Lyon (fra) police headquarters, he asked how many homocides per week were commited is the city, the chief of Lyon police kept an amazed silence for a while, as there is not enough homicides in the Lyon district (one million and a half inhabitants) to have other than yearly statistics...

Now, as there are too many triggers on Mars and it is too crowded,  ??? 
I'll rather settle up on some http://mapage.noos.fr/patpanic/FEmeteor … ]meteorite as a member of the Asteroïds Free Communities Federation
...with no corporal punishments and no penalty of death 

Anyways, this is just my own opinion. Maybe in some US areas, things have gone too far on a path of violence and people can think only in terms of violence. Violent justice against ordinary violence...

LO
@ecrasez_l_infame
Sorry I misunderstood you.
You are a social being.

For serial killers, children rapists and particularly dangerous and cynical criminals, I'm not opposed to a limited banishment time letting them away of any kind of human contact. Perhaps they might realize the price of a smile, of a word, of a touch.

I don't know, I may be wrong.