New Mars Forums

Yep, and don't forget that we may freely trample free speech and kill freedom of political expression because it's illegal to yell "fire" in a crowded building. Apparently some people don't distinguish between fraud which is a malevolent act against an individual or an organization and the right to merely express one's opinions.

Good point.  If we're hell bent on a Mars sample return mission we should at least try out some technologies that would be applicable to a manned mission.  Also, using the in-situ propellant to return to Earth would eliminate the need for the sample capsule to dock with a Earth-return craft in space.  The Mars bound ship could just leave directly for Earth provided it was able to produce enough fuel.

I don't believe there are pathogens on Mars either, especially ones that would infect people.  I was merely trying to counter the argument that we need a sample return to insure there are no deadly diseases awaiting us. 

Oh God, we might have to wait until 2020 for just a sample return mission?  If that's the case I think we'll all be in our final resting places before we see boot prints marking up the Martian surface.   And hey, I think you should step on that soapbox more often! 

Terraforming would be an extremely difficult and long process but it's certainly not impossible.  Just look at Earth, 4 billion years ago it was nothing like it is today.  Higher animals would have no chance of surviving there.  It was only after primitive life had "terraformed" the planet that the conditions that higher life depends on came into existence.  I pretty much hold to the viewpoint that if something's within physical laws it isn't truly impossible even though it might be extremely improbable or close to impossible.  Personally though I think I'm falling in with the "red" crowd when it comes to terraforming.  I think it's just easier and more practicle to build giant areas and make them habitable then to terraform an entire planet.

I'm betting on the Starchaser team.  If all goes well they're planning their first manned flight in early 2003 and it probably won't be to long after that that they get their X-prize qualified vehicle ready.  That Canadian team might beat them to it though.  I'm guessing one of those two teams will be the winnder.

I sometimes wonder if civilization will end up being derailed and destroyed by the terminal pessimists as you aptly put it.  Such cynicism seems to grow like small pox among people.  I think it's possible a lot of potentially starfaring societies have given in to the doom mongers and misanthropes of their times and stayed on their little planets until their sun boiled off the oceans and wrapped their world in a Venusian hell.   Just my opinion of course.

Fascinating points.  I never thought about the possibility of the genetic info of a Martian organism merging with our own.  Even though such a merger might help keep Martian genetic codes alive do you think it has much of a chance of helping people to better adapt to the Martian environment?  After all we'd almost have to redesign our bodies from the ground up to survive any of the conditions on Mars.  I guess evolution could steal some of factors of the microbes that helped them survive and integrate them with us somehow.  And personally I hope Martian life has very little in common with Earth life.  I'd like to see evidence that Martian life developed independently of Earth life.  If Earth and Mars life (if it has life) are obviously related it'll just take us back to square one and still not answer the question of how likely life is to form on planets independently.

Shaun, do I sense some sarcasm and blasphemy here!!!  I guess scrubbing the pictures of our beloved leaders at the re-education camp didn't quite convince you of the truth of our political philosophies.  Yep, I think your going to be the special project. 

LOL! Ain'ts thats the truth! There's two things I really despise about the space program in its current implementation:  it's dependence on short sighted politicians to approve everything it does, and second, these stupid cost-plus schemes that totally steer the program away from cost effectiveness and ultimately gets everything killed because the price tags are too high.  Of course we'll have to live with point one forever, but somebody needs to chuck the cost-plus scheme.  The contractors will cry foul and say they're a special case that should keep recieving outrageous amounts of money for work done because of XYZ factors, but such a system has to go because it's simply abused by the contractors and gives them little incentive to keep costs low.

Robs, you've been inspired.   Actually I like your plan better than Zubrin's.  Assuming we can pull off the agricultural and Phobos untilization feats you mentioned, it would probably prove easier and cheaper to keep a manned Mars base alive than a Moon bound one.   And I also agree that its best to design these missions around launchers that actually exist at the moment if possible.  Hey, have you thought about writing a book, I'll buy it.

Speaking of Jedi warriors, I read an article in the paper recently that 70,000 people in Australia claimed to be Jedi on the national census.  Hmm, I wonder if Shaun is attuned to the force.

I wonder if we could just produce a calendar based on something other than seasons/day cycles that could be used for the entire Solar System.  If we develop numerous colonies all through space it's going to get hellish trying to keep track of all of these calendars and making your time correspond to theirs.  I already have enough of a headache trying to figure out what the time in X time zone is compared to the time in Y zone.  I guess I got horribly off topic, but I don't really like Zubrin's plan for a calendar, I think we should work on something more universal, but perhaps that's impossible.

Ouch! I hope when you go driving all over Phobos you don't do it with cleated tires.   Anyhow, it could be scary driving on Phobos.  One big bump and Mars might find itself with a new moonlet.

Even though I found the idea of building a space station at the libration points interesting, I wonder how worthwhile that really is.  Oh well, if NASA and its political leash holders finally gets the initiative to send people zooming around the Solar System they can build bases at the libration points to their hearts content.  One thing I found somewhat disturbing though was how the author indicated that building such a L-base would lead us not to fly just one mission to Mars but two or three!  Whatever happened to a sustained effort to keep people there indefinately.  I think NASA has tossed the vision of Mars Direct out the window.   On the flip side though I got the impression they did want to build something of an indefinately staffed base on the moon, so that's good.

Wow, considering your not-so-favorable opinions on religion I never would have guessed that it was the words of a preacher that sparked your curiosity.  Voltaire would probably be impressed by such a story of someone finding the strength to overcome what they've been taught as holy truth and basically reject it because they find it unreasonable.  Anyways, is it true that Voltaire's last words were "What, flames already?" when someone lit a candle next to his deathbed?  I don't remember where I heard that so it's probably some urban myth but I don't know.