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#301 Re: Not So Free Chat » Bow Down Before Iran? » 2006-11-13 09:14:20

What soldiers ?

I don't know, you accuse the US Army of moving in on a community of sharecroppers and forcing them to have sex with prostitutes so they they all contract syphilis, and then building a big barber wire fence around their community and guarding it so they cannot see a doctor and get their syphilis treat and they are kept confined until they all die of the disease. Now why did the US Army do this? The commading officer just twists his waxed mustache and snarls. I guess because they are just evil and they are out their trying to help liberals like you make their point.

Tom read my posts at no time have I mentioned soldiers it is called the Tuskegee experiment due to the county that these people where from. It is only you who claims they where soldiers. The "experiment" started in 1932s and was only stopped in 1972

The people involved apart from being black where poor and sharecroppers as in small farmers. It was a study to see how the disease would spread and how many it would kill.

There was only one time the army got involved and that was when the second world war started many of these sharecroppers tried to volunteer to defend there country but in the routine medical tests there disease was discovered and they where told to go get it cured. A simple cure existed then.

The army was overruled by the Public Health Service as it wanted the test to continue.

Tuskegee Syphilis Study

#302 Re: Not So Free Chat » Bow Down Before Iran? » 2006-11-13 08:58:07

Tom one of the reasons that so many foreigners are working in the red sea and Saudi oil fields is the problem that the average citizen of the middle east is not far of being a peasant.

What we should do with the likes of Iraq and through demonstration is to improve the education and with this education to create people who understand what voting means.

That way Democracy will spread and the mad Mullahs of Iran will find themselves at less of an advantage.

So are you saying that we should rule and occupy Iraq for the next 12 years and run their schools for them to see that the next generation will getr a proper high school education for citizenship by American standards?

Back to the serious buisness.

The simmering racial and religous tensions that we uncorked in removing Saddam will take a long time to heal. Frankly all we are doing at the moment is making things worse. Anyone who is trying to do good there gets labeled with being a stooge for the Yankees or the Brits.

We simply have to ensure though that when we leave which may be sooner than many think that the local security services are actually able to contain the situation. Im not sure if they can at the moment and so we have to see if the country of Iraq can be propped up by local acceptable countries until it can stand on its own.

If that means getting Iran and Syria on board we have to. As it is if we dont both countries could well carve Iraq up when we leave and that is something we do not want.

As it is we can support the education and health services but not as we currently do simply as they are seen by the insurgents as targets and to the people of Iraq as dangerous places. Putting money into these systems when we are out of the country and design it so the goverment cant use graft to remove this cash will go a long way to creating the Democratic Middle Eastern state we want. Oh and drag some of the middle east out of the medieval ages.

What is needed is peace and stability. If we have this and without the Baathist party controlling everything then it will allow Iraq to rebuild itself and in the process some will get rich and commerce can increase. With this comes more stability and a chance for the security services to start doing there jobs and for a state of Iraq to exist.

At the moment though we have a sectored off Iraq and one which the insurgents are using to train and develop new techniques against us. There are not enough Allied troops on the ground to stop the increase in violence and the local security services are too green or just suspect. The goverment of Iraq is not really that at all it is more a talking shop full of ambition and the local states like Syria and Iran are financing the insurgents all the while dealing with refugees and looking to do a bit of regime change themselves when we leave.

#303 Re: Not So Free Chat » Bow Down Before Iran? » 2006-11-13 08:43:05

Who's fault was it that they contracted syphilis? Did the army order them to have unprotected Sex with infected prostitutes. I think if a soldier is ordered to have sex with a strange woman, he may legally refuse. I don't think the Army can court marshal any of its soldiers for refusing orders to have sex, it is not a legal order. I think some soldiers were too quick to drop their pants at the sight of a pretty woman, or maybe even a not so pretty woman. I do not have sex just because pretty women are available and willing, I guess that's just a reflection of my values. I'm aware there is such a thing as syphilis, I was taught this in grade school, and I do not believe it to be worth contracting this disease just for a few moments pleasure. I believe in monogamous relationships within a marriage, and I was taught this in church, and that adultery was a sin. Apparently the parents of these soldiers failed to instill these values in them. That said, the officers and soldiers who performed this experiment on them should all be executed for their part in it, thats what I would do to make sure nothing like this ever happens again.

They where not soldiers they where actually small farmers, share croppers. The contraction was by various means, contract by sexual partners, Congenital contraction and by contact with people who where in second and third stage symptoms in short you could get it by touching someone or breathing too close.

It is a veneral disease contracted by sexual contact, it is not an airborne virus, it is tread by the sharing and comingling of body fluids. What are you saying that the soldiers simply occupied the farmland and forced the sharecroppers to have sex with them and did not treat them for their veneral disease? Or did they bring with them a contignet of diseased prostitutes and forced them to have sex with them?

What soldiers ?

#304 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Ares I (CLV) - status » 2006-11-12 08:48:03

There seems to be a problem with the Ares 1. It is underpowered by about a metric ton.

NASA Encounters Problems With Ares 1 Launch Vehicle Design

Im sure that a fix can be found otherwise there has to be major changes to the CEV.

#305 Re: Not So Free Chat » Bow Down Before Iran? » 2006-11-11 12:33:46

Tom one of the reasons that so many foreigners are working in the red sea and Saudi oil fields is the problem that the average citizen of the middle east is not far of being a peasant.

What we should do with the likes of Iraq and through demonstration is to improve the education and with this education to create people who understand what voting means.

That way Democracy will spread and the mad Mullahs of Iran will find themselves at less of an advantage.

#306 Re: Not So Free Chat » Bow Down Before Iran? » 2006-11-11 12:13:24

Who's fault was it that they contracted syphilis? Did the army order them to have unprotected Sex with infected prostitutes. I think if a soldier is ordered to have sex with a strange woman, he may legally refuse. I don't think the Army can court marshal any of its soldiers for refusing orders to have sex, it is not a legal order. I think some soldiers were too quick to drop their pants at the sight of a pretty woman, or maybe even a not so pretty woman. I do not have sex just because pretty women are available and willing, I guess that's just a reflection of my values. I'm aware there is such a thing as syphilis, I was taught this in grade school, and I do not believe it to be worth contracting this disease just for a few moments pleasure. I believe in monogamous relationships within a marriage, and I was taught this in church, and that adultery was a sin. Apparently the parents of these soldiers failed to instill these values in them. That said, the officers and soldiers who performed this experiment on them should all be executed for their part in it, thats what I would do to make sure nothing like this ever happens again.

They where not soldiers they where actually small farmers, share croppers. The contraction was by various means, contract by sexual partners, Congenital contraction and by contact with people who where in second and third stage symptoms in short you could get it by touching someone or breathing too close.

#307 Re: Not So Free Chat » Bow Down Before Iran? » 2006-11-11 06:35:36

We've been showing the Arabs and other people in the world the way for 230 years, little good it has done them I'm afraid.

And again you call the Iranians Arabs they are not nor have they ever been.

So long as they continue to support Islamic terrorism against Americans and Jews, why is it important.

What they are, are Persians and not necessarily all muslim. Iran is the home of Zoaraster.

And I honestly hope that they do not take our history and the USA's as a showing the way. A good example of this was the the deliberate non-treatment of a bunch of negroes of Syphilis just to see what happens.  :cry:

I really don't know what your talking about here. If they don't want Syphilis, they should stop having casual unprotected sex, it is their responsibility. A monogamous relationship i highly recommended for preventing the spread of Syphilis. I see you are reaching into obsure bits of American history that I know nothing about. I think whats more important is how we've evolved from a colony of the British Empire to a Democratic Republic, a republic which has lasted 230 years, while many European fledgling democracies sputtered and tottered, lurching from King to democracy to dictatorship and back again. The USA is the third most populous country in the world and has the largest economy. I don't know what other example you might have in mind. the World was not a very democratic place before the American Revolution.

No we have much better to show them than our history we have learned from it but they may well be stuck in this glorious past that they honestly believe.

Tom what you describe as Democracy has little bearing in the daily lives of the average Iraqi or any middle eastern inhabitant. The idea of countries being democracies is a very recent event in the world and a lot of so called democratic countries are not anywhere near this. Look at Africa as an example.

Democracy is not natural to the middle east and modern democracy came with the increase in education and increase in social rights. We found that what really forced the creation of western democracy was the advent of a stronger middle class. In the middle east there just is no such thing. As an example banking the cornerstone of our financial institutions is anathema to the middle east in general it is not legal under Sharia law. The middle east is one area like Africa where there was no increase in education before the concept of Democracy was dropped on them and like Africa it does not fare well. People will vote the way there neighbours and tribe will vote. It is one thing to have this wonder called democracy but it is another matter to not stick with your tribe and people.

All they see is patrols stopping them from travelling where they want if they get to close to convoys private soldiers literally shoot at them, The air is full of combat helicopters. The conditions that existed under Saddam are still present there is no food the water and power works infrequently but there is now the added danger just going to the shops could get you killed by the other tribes waiting to pick up and execute you as part of the general ethnic cleansing that happens.

If you have someone die or get ill you cannot go near the hospital in case you get arrested by the kill squads operating and you disapear.

So that is daily life in Iraq and its constant filming is leading the locals to only one answer this is what democracy gives. So dont expect it to work they are learning a view of democracy that is as false as can be put but in the end there is nothing else showing them different.

If they don't want Syphilis, they should stop having casual unprotected sex, it is their responsibility. A monogamous relationship i highly recommended for preventing the spread of Syphilis. I see you are reaching into obsure bits of American history that I know nothing about

Untreated Syphilis eventually goes into its more dangerous stages and it is this third and second stages that allow it to be passed on by touch and even airborne. After the Nazi's under doctor Mengele the second most unethical medical experiment ever carried out was the Tuskegee Syphilis study. This was state sponsored and was only stopped in 1972 so not ancient history at all and not obscure.

#308 Re: Not So Free Chat » Bow Down Before Iran? » 2006-11-09 18:27:16

Time For The Saudis To Act

In the end we cannot solve the problems of Iraq and the middle east we can only show the way and in this we have lost all credibility. Saudia Arabia is the USA's "best friend" in the region it is nowhere near being a democracy the rulers where appointed by god you see.

Still it is to Saudi that all the other states are looking to for protection from the rise of Iran and it is likely that even there pariah state Israel might come on board to deal with what is a non Arab state bent on regional domination.

We have to take some of the blame for this as we helped remove the stoppers to Irans ambition it could not really do anything except rant at us until we made such a public balls up in Iraq and it has gained a lot of knowledge in our weaknesses.

We've been showing the Arabs and other people in the world the way for 230 years, little good it has done them I'm afraid.

And again you call the Iranians Arabs they are not nor have they ever been.

What they are, are Persians and not necessarily all muslim. Iran is the home of Zoaraster.

And I honestly hope that they do not take our history and the USA's as a showing the way. A good example of this was the the deliberate non-treatment of a bunch of negroes of Syphilis just to see what happens.  :cry:

No we have much better to show them than our history we have learned from it but they may well be stuck in this glorious past that they honestly believe.

#309 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Fishsticks: RIP 2048? » 2006-11-08 13:57:40

The problem is cost and the limited amount of produce it will make.

So pricing fish out of the cheap market and into the expensive luxury market.

#310 Re: Not So Free Chat » North Korea Blew the NUKE !!! DPRK tests the bomb ? » 2006-11-08 08:30:35

The risk is simple you will be making him into a martyr to the 20% of Iraqs population who believe everything he says. It also appears to be revenge rather than justice and that is something that even Machiavelli warned us against. The best means to deal with Saddam is to let him wither like Napoleon far away getting older and more feable and to show the Iraqi people look there was this great leader, human, old and utterly spent. No palaces no grand banquets only ridicule and the knowledge for him it was all for nothing he will die and not even get a grave just to disapear a footnote in history.

You do realize that Napoleon is a horrible example.

If the Allies killed him when they had the chance they would have prevented a hell of a lot of bloodshed.

Napoleon was an example of a case where a negociated settlement pushed him out of power and in this case it solved nothing there was still a lot of political and public support for him and the foreign imposed monarchy/goverment was truly disliked. After his defeat at Waterloo it was so crushing that he abdicated himself and this was needed for the people to see his defeat.

#311 Re: New Mars Articles » The Not-So-Big Dig - drilling on Mars » 2006-11-08 05:34:33

It is always going to be a problem to work on the Moon,Mars and Asteroids. We honestly rely on gravity to allow us to do a lot of things and with different gravities we find that what we take for granted just will not work.

#312 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Fishsticks: RIP 2048? » 2006-11-08 05:28:24

The problems is that farming actually damages fish stocks as well. They concentrate the hazards to fish and increase diseases that prey on them. A good example is the sea lice which is a bane to fish but hard to get in the wild. But fish farms concentrate the fish and sea louse population is booming to the point that for miles away there is a slick of sea lice that infect any passing fish and so stocks in the wild get hammered.

#314 Re: Not So Free Chat » North Korea Blew the NUKE !!! DPRK tests the bomb ? » 2006-11-08 05:21:00

Lenin was not given the death penalty when he was arrested, spared by the Russian Czar who thought he was being humane.

Hitler was not given the death penalty when he was arrested.

The risk in allowing Saddam Hussein to live is that someday he may get out of jail and become dictator again, and perhaps seek revenge against those who jailed him and spared his life, by torturing them to death.

Is there the slightest doubt at all that Saddam Hussein is guilty?

Is their the slightest chance at all that by executing him, they may be executing an innocent person who was framed?

So whats the problem with the death penalty if their is no risk in killing the innocent?

The risk is simple you will be making him into a martyr to the 20% of Iraqs population who believe everything he says. It also appears to be revenge rather than justice and that is something that even Machiavelli warned us against. The best means to deal with Saddam is to let him wither like Napoleon far away getting older and more feable and to show the Iraqi people look there was this great leader, human, old and utterly spent. No palaces no grand banquets only ridicule and the knowledge for him it was all for nothing he will die and not even get a grave just to disapear a footnote in history.

#315 Re: Not So Free Chat » Bow Down Before Iran? » 2006-11-08 05:15:06

Time For The Saudis To Act

In the end we cannot solve the problems of Iraq and the middle east we can only show the way and in this we have lost all credibility. Saudia Arabia is the USA's "best friend" in the region it is nowhere near being a democracy the rulers where appointed by god you see.

Still it is to Saudi that all the other states are looking to for protection from the rise of Iran and it is likely that even there pariah state Israel might come on board to deal with what is a non Arab state bent on regional domination.

We have to take some of the blame for this as we helped remove the stoppers to Irans ambition it could not really do anything except rant at us until we made such a public balls up in Iraq and it has gained a lot of knowledge in our weaknesses.

#316 Re: Not So Free Chat » Canada / U.S. relations » 2006-11-07 14:56:11

I suppose it can do no harm to introduce, in this rant about the members of political parties who adhere to one or another supernatural belief to the exclusion of any other, that there are quite a few of us who have no such beliefs and for whom the negative appellation "agnostic" or "athiest" is undeserved. "Humanist" is the proper term. Look it up.

Your 76 years old and still a humanist?

I expect I'll be getting more religious toward my old age. So far science has not offered much in averting the Inevitable End. The clock is ticking on all of us, when your young and in your 20s Atheism works fine, you just have to be very careful and avoid doing dangerous things. If you are very careful, you get to be old, and no matter how careful you are, you know the end is coming. I have sufficient awareness of self that I really don't want it to end. If you convince yourself that their is an afterlife, that makes dying all the more easier. If you want a good example of that, just look at how Pope John Paul II died, he died calmly and his last acts were in preparing for that death rather than fighting it with every fiber of his being. It does tend to make things run more smoothly if you believe in something after this world.

Tom in the early 1930s the life expectancy of a male was 58 years and in some countries it was a lot lower. Science has improved that by 23 years.  smile

So before Dicktice answers you should know he will blow your arquement out of the water there  big_smile

#317 Re: Not So Free Chat » North Korea Blew the NUKE !!! DPRK tests the bomb ? » 2006-11-07 14:52:17

And you hear the cry coming from Europe, "Spare that dictator!"
Perhaps they are hoping that the current government will be overthrown and Saddam Hussein reinstalled as that nation's dictator. So long as Saddam is alive, it remains a possibility that he could be busted out of jail by one militia or another.

It is simple we are against the death penalty and as it is part of our democratic process so is our goverment. Tom you have put forward the idea that we are in Iraq to give them democracy well in Europe that means no death penalty.

#318 Re: Not So Free Chat » Bow Down Before Iran? » 2006-11-07 07:50:35

In 1999 the pentagon developed a wargame to see what would happen if they invaded Iraq. They looked at what it would take to defeat the Iraqi regime and what it would take to hold the country afterwards.

The "Desert Crossing" game had 70 Military and Diplomatic and Intelligence staff and considered a minimum necassary troop deployment of 400 thousand soldiers to seal the country. It still considered a high risk of insurgency and trouble occuring anyway.

Past War Games Foresaw Iraq Problems

#319 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Ares I (CLV) - status » 2006-11-07 07:42:48

There are plans for a novel means to escape the launch gantry for the crew and technicians. This is to use a rollercoaster.

KSC Safety Roller Coaster

#320 Re: Interplanetary transportation » Orion (CEV / SM) - status » 2006-11-07 04:19:47

The CEV will use a novel means to be able to get the crew to safety in case a launchpad fire occurs.

They will have a roller coaster.

KSC Safety Roller Coaster

#321 Re: Human missions » Thermal Depolymerization / thermal conversion process » 2006-11-06 13:54:42

Still there is also the mineral Ilmenite which will give you Titanium if you need stronger alloyed parts. Certainly we will have a lot on hand as we will be looking for ilmenite so that we can extract the oxygen from it.

Titanium combined with Aluminium should make decent strength alloyed components. And there is also the iron from it too though less in quantity.

#322 Re: Not So Free Chat » North Korea Blew the NUKE !!! DPRK tests the bomb ? » 2006-11-05 17:13:22

It is probabily best especially now that Saddam will get to taste one of his own execution chambers.

#323 Re: Not So Free Chat » Bow Down Before Iran? » 2006-11-05 07:27:47

It makes no difference to me what they are called. I see no distinctions between Persians and Arabs, just as I see no distinctions between Arabs and Germans during World War II. Some Hard Leftists do however, while they see the NAZIs as the facist enemy, a conclusion they came late too when NAZI Germany attacked their great Patron Russia, the left wing is willing to give the Arab and the Persian a break for their anti-Semitism, for them it is excusable for middleEastern men to be warmongers, bigots and antisemites, its just not excusable for Americans to be these things. If the Arabs and Persians want to wipe Israel off the Map, that's ok in their book, if America wants to stop it, that is Imperialism or interference, and I don't believe the left-wing in the western world sees the difference between Persians and Arabs either other than their unfortunate tendency to fight each other rather than concentrate their attacks on Americans and Jews.

Tom, the world is not black and white. We have already seen that in the situation in Iraq if we knock of the top dog in this case the Sunni Arab Baath tribe/party aka Saddams crew we end up with other sections rising. In this case since we in a stroke removed the Sunni control of Iraq we empowered the oppressed Kurd minority and more importantly the Shia as well.

The US army showed just how effective it was in destroying Iraqs army but it then made the mistake that though you need a certain amount of men to win the war often you need double that to actually control the country. Since the US and its allies did not have that manpower insurgency thrived. The security that Iraq had before the war was beheaded and the police in short disbanded. Militias from the minorities increased if only to defend themselves. Fear of these other minorities gave Al-qhaeda its chance to arm and train the Sunni and Iran and its secret services have given training and arms to the Shi'te forces. The Kurds are being trained by Israel.

It is now at the point that death squads are killing other ethnic groups off and we have ethnic cleansing working in Iraq on our watch. We also can do little to stop it as the insurgency and Militias are more or less in control of the countryside and our patrols run serious risks if we venture outside. Even increasingly in the cities the insurgencies have made it risky for us as the technology and arms flood across Irans,Syria's,Saudia Arabia's borders.

When we leave we had better have left a much more stable country behind than what is currently present. We may even have to divide the country into three. If we dont what will happen is that as soon as we leave conflict will break out and this could easily pull in all the other local countries and cause the middle east to explode. Tom you may not care but you will if it puts the cost of petrol up to the point you cant afford to use it. This is quite likely since the most common tactic in middle east wars is to attack the defenceless floating bombs that are oil tankers to stop the other sides finances. Iran is already planning it why do you think she has built all these new attack boats and Surface air effect attack craft.

#324 Re: Not So Free Chat » Bow Down Before Iran? » 2006-11-03 05:45:18

More and more ... Iran resembles Hitler's Germany in the 1930's, but with the addition now of long-range ballistic missles. Hitler could've taken "us" out without invading if he'd had them then. That little twit running Iran only has to change his name to something easier to pronounce like "Hitler" to make the comparison quite believeable....

the problem is they are Arabs, not white people as the German Nazis were, so as far as the extreme left wing is concerned its ok for them to be anti-semetic and intimate that they want to kill all the Jews in Israel while they seek to process Uranium.

Iran is Not an Arabic country it may be Muslim but the population are Persians and Azeri. Actually there national blood enemy is Arabs. It is one of the reasons that Saddam thought a war with them as the main population of Iraq is Sunni arabs and Arabs and Iranians hate each other. There is also the religion card where Shi'te and Sunni religions just do not get on. Iran is Shi'te.

Saudia Arabia is arming itself just to protect itself from Iran.

Still what is Irans long term aims. Certainly it was an empire and every child is told stories of the great Persian empires of the past. It may be that they see themselves as becoming the regional power of the middle east again and certainly they see the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia as a block to this.

#325 Re: Human missions » It's Official the Moon is not the Future of Colonization » 2006-10-27 04:20:27

Still there is the possibility that collisions on the Moon from volatile laden asteroids/comets has delivered some of those volatiles into locations where the sun does not reach and so they remain there even if buried under the regolith debris of further collisions.

The only way to know will be to send a rover in to look.

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