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#276 Re: Human missions » Apollo 11 REDUX » 2017-02-16 08:57:49
Tom Kalbfus wrote:It just needs to be refueled on the Moon, that's all, the acceleration to get off the Moon is the same as the deceleration to land on its surface. What you need to do is have twice as much hydrogen as you need to land on the Moon's surface, then you manufacture oxygen and liquefy it for the ascent back to orbit.
Tom, we've been over this. Effectively there is no water on the Moon. LCROSS did find water, but it was such low concentration that it would take about 100 metric tonnes of equipment to produce 1 metric tonne of propellant (fuel and oxidizer). That isn't worth it. Besides, water on the Moon is so scarce that it would be a crime to waste it as fuel. What tiny bit of water that does exist must be reserved for life support, recycled and preserved indefinitely. And LCROSS impacted the most concentrated spot on the Moon, as identified by Lunar Prospector. There is no spot that concentrated. And that spot isn't concentrated any more, LCROSS blew it up, distributed it over a vast area.
Problems with the Moon: no water, no hydrogen, no carbon, no nitrogen. The only oxygen is tied up as metal oxide ore. The Moon makes a great "tree house" but not a place to build a colony. No resources to live.
I posted several times the work by John Wickman to produce Lunar Soil Propellant. That uses powdered aluminum and liquid oxygen. That's the only practical lunar propellant. If you aren't willing to use that, then there is no ISPP on the Moon.
You could simply land an oxygen tank in a shadowed crater. Without an ascent stage, you can devote the extra mass to bringing more oxygen, then land another lander with empty tanks nearby, and extend a hose from the fuel tank to the lunar lander with empty fuel tanks. Unlike astronauts, a tank of liquid oxygen doesn't need life support or food, it just sits there. In a cold permanently shadowed crater, the liquid oxygen tank can be prevented from boiling off quite easily, liquid hydrogen would be more difficult. for long term storage methane would probably be better.
#277 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-02-15 23:30:38
I would say the mainstream media being in the pockets of the Democratic Party is a bigger scandal than Watergate, no doubt about it, its even a bigger scandal than Benghazi! So the Democrats want to undermine our national security so they can get back into power in the White House. Why should I trust a Democrats, if getting back into power has a higher priority for them than even the security of the United States or the safety of its citizens? Maybe the Democrats should sit back and let things happen rather than cause things to happen that are detrimental to this country! Remember back in High school, when you had a bully decide to trip a passerby and knock him to the floor, and then he would say, "Oh look here at the klutz! What wrong, don't you know how to walk?" and then he shoves him to the floor one more time. The Democrats are looking like bullies here, they are tripping up the Trump Administration, deliberately sabotaging it, because they don't want it to succeed, they don't want it to achieve a higher growth rate for the country than Obama's measly 1.6% annual growth over 8 years! So they will try their darnedest to make sure that unemployment stays high, that soldiers return in coffins from the war on terror, they want to make Donald Trump look bad or incompetent, so that cause chaos and mischief and then they complain about a chaotic administration. They attack every one of Trump's appointees, and the Democrats become part of the problem, so why should we put them back into power after Trump?
#278 Re: Human missions » Apollo 11 REDUX » 2017-02-15 23:14:29
Dragon has the ability to land, but not lift off again. Dragon can land (one way) on Earth, Moon, or Mars. I don't know about you, but I would like to return home alive. NASA tried to design Apollo to land the CSM on the Moon, and return to Earth. That was called "Direct Launch", mass was so high that even a Saturn V couldn't launch it. An engineer for the manufacturer of the Lunar Module showed NASA the engineering math. Using the same Command Module but a much smaller Service Module, plus their Lunar Module, total mass was small enough to fit on a Saturn V. They even had a little launch mass left over. They used that for Apollo 15-17 to carry a lunar rover, and a little more life support for extended surface stay.
My argument is you can't launch both a Dragon spacecraft to lunar orbit, and a lunar module as heavy as Dragon. The lunar module must be light-weight. Especially if it will both land and ascend back to lunar orbit.
It just needs to be refueled on the Moon, that's all, the acceleration to get off the Moon is the same as the deceleration to land on its surface. What you need to do is have twice as much hydrogen as you need to land on the Moon's surface, then you manufacture oxygen and liquefy it for the ascent back to orbit.
#279 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-02-15 09:39:32
There is a difference between dying as an individual and having your whole civilization extinguished. What I see China doing is trying to divide the West, it is entertaining Putin's Cold War fantasy, and thus pitting one Western Nation against the West, so Western Civilization can destroy itself an then China can move into the empty space left behind. Tell me how I am wrong in making that particular observation!
#280 Re: Human missions » Apollo 11 REDUX » 2017-02-15 09:36:11
Then what is it for Mars? Anything on Mars weighs twice as much as it does on the Moon.
#281 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-02-14 22:39:43
I have to observe that many times now you have put bait out, of a racial reference. It becomes suspicious since none of the moderators attempt to modify your conversation.
I have some time entertained the notion that you might be a synthetic personality Tom. I am watching you
Do you have objections to me not dying? the color of our skins is one thing we have in common with the Russians, why not use that? Also the Chinese might very much want to wipe out Western Civilization so they could live in our homes, and who better could they have than the Russians to do it for them, they get into a nuclear war with Europe and the United States and China emerges unscathed, that is racism on their part. If someone wants to kill me because I am white, does that make me racist to want to defend myself? People tend to forget that there are racists in this world other than white people. Also to prevent the Russians from joining up with China, we have to exploit the differences between the Russians and the Chinese. The Russians are well known to be racists, so an alliance between them and China is not natural. Also China vastly outnumbers them, Russia is very much the junior partner. China would swamp their culture, while America would not as much.
Racism exists everywhere, I've seen black racists, I've seen Chinese racists, I do not want to get into a nuclear war with Russia, in order to avoid that, we need to give the Russians a reason why not. Play to their suspicions about the Chinese!
#282 Re: Human missions » Apollo 11 REDUX » 2017-02-14 10:01:46
And what are the astronauts to do aboard that capsule? Should Donald Trump just sell lottery tickets and the winners get a free trip around the Moon? I think "Alice" would be a good name for the capsule they send around the Moon!
#283 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-02-14 09:35:00
I think you obcess about the Russians too much. Neither force them into a corner, or tempt them to be excessively bold.
White skin? A useful marker at times. But the Russians have a saying. "Scratch a Russian, find a TarTar".
So don't scratch them.
Why not? Why would they want to wipe out their own race from the face of the Earth by nuking other countries that are of that race? And why shouldn't we back them into a corner so they can make the right decision instead of a stupid decision. Is it the purpose of Russia to wipe out all Caucasians for the Chinese can inhabit our territory? I just want the Russians to see what a post nuclear war world would look like. Imagine what the World would look like if the Russians went to war with NATO and left the Chinese and the Muslims out of it. Islam would be ascendant! They would say that this war was the work of Allah, and they would then just pour into Europe and America! The Chinese would say that the Russians were useful fools for eliminating all the "round eyes" so they have room to spread thei billion plus population. Teachers in Chinese classrooms would ask their students why the white race was so stupid as to eliminate themselves in World War III, and some Chinese student would raise their hand and say because white people were not as smart as Asians, and that is why they became extinct!
#284 Re: Human missions » Apollo 11 REDUX » 2017-02-14 09:25:00
I think Lockheed-Martin is "in awe" of Trump, ever since they had to negotiate with him about the F-35 multirole fighters. Ditto Boeing w/r to Air Force 1 Replacements. There are also rumors floating around about Trump raising NASA's budget in order to promote the commercialization of space. Asteroid mining, anyone?
In my opinion, all the noise being made by the Chinese about establishment of a permanent base on the Moon has Donald's National Security sensors being tickled.
Just idle speculation on my part: Trump will call for an Apollo 8 redux by 2018. Only one game in town, and that's SpaceX.
What exactly are they going to put in orbit around the Moon if they are not going to land anything? Seems to me that three years should be enough time to build a lander. Astronauts could teleoperate remotely space probes on the Moon without that 2.6 second round trip delay, but is that worth sending a human crew over? If SpaceX can land a rocket on a launch pad, surely it must be able to put together a Moon lander, they had Moon lander in the 1960s after all! Perhaps the first thing to do would be to deploy a GPS/Comsat system for the Moon, so that an astronaut on any point of the Moo' surface can communicate with Mission control and tell his current whereabouts on the Moon,
#285 Re: Human missions » Apollo 11 REDUX » 2017-02-14 09:16:41
Falcon Heavy is scheduled for its first test flight this year. The first flight of Falcon 9 carried an unmanned Dragon as it's dummy payload. So some of us said we want Falcon Heavy to launch Dragon around the Moon, in a lunar fly-by.
NASA won't let SpaceX launch Dragon v2 until after Orion launches. Obvious bias for the favoured contractor. SpaceX could have launched an unmanned test of Dragon v2 by now.
Dragon v2 to do the same mission profile as Orion EM-1, but Dragon first! Trump could allow it, considering his bias for private enterprise.
Does Donald Trump favor that contractor? Are they his friends? Didn't he just complain about the New Air Force One being too expensive? Why would he want to throw money away just to keep a contractor happy? That doesn't seem like Trump!
#286 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-02-13 11:13:58
Sort of sounds like a demand that Russia see reality the way you do.
They know what dead is. It's hard to say.
Peter Zeihan predicts that due to a low birth rate the Russians will wish to station their military forces at specific locations. This would allow them to have security with a much diminished manpower. In one scenario, if it happens later, the USA supposedly won't care, but Europe will. If it happens fast as with Trump, the USA may get involved at one location. That does not necessarily mean war.
Lets not forget the superweapons that each nation has. In other words, yes if this was the 19th century, then Russia would be forced to act or loose the ability to deter the West. But in reality the west marching of Russia would be suicide for both.
Deter the "West" from what? The Russians look very white and Caucasian to me, I would have to say, they are Westerners rather than Asian by race. The Karl Marx Communism thing was BS, and did not turn the Russians into Easterners, as they are not Eastern, and most of them live west of the Urals if you want to go by geography which would make them Westerners. So the question is, what does Russia want to deter the West from doing? Communism is not Russian culture, I was trash put out by that German Karl Marx, so how long is Russia going to be eating that German garbage? If Russia really wants to be a great nation, it ought to stop eating other nation's refuse such as the stuff put out by that crackpot Karl Marx. No Communism, no Cold War, no Conflict! Russia has no reason not to get along, it could even join NATO at some point in he future if it stops misbehaving!
There are some contradicting issues in this. I suspect that the sane way out of this is for the Baltics, and other sections of Europe to work something out with Russia.
What is it that the Baltics have done besides just exist? I don't see how the Baltics could threaten Russia, if we wanted to threaten Russia, we could do so without using the Baltics, having the Baltic States in NATO does not put Russia in any more peril than it is right now or was before that was the case. When the Baltics were part of the Soviet Union, Russia was no safer from us, than it is now, we could have nuked Russia then, just like we can nuke Russia now. Having the Baltic States as neutrals or Soviet Allies don't make Russian citizens any more safer from our nukes than they are now. The thing about missiles is they can fly over whole countries to reach their targets. I don't think the Russians are so stupid as to believe that the Baltic States could act as a "shield" against nuclear missiles.
None of them have expanding demographics. So, it makes very little sense for them to be trying to claim more land from each other. It is also stupid for the Russians to kill a western customer (Europe) for Oil and Gas. It also makes no sense for the Europeans to try to kill the supplier of Oil and Gas. (Russia).
Here is some reading for you:
http://zeihan.com/beginning-of-the-end- … shale-oil/Part 1: Shale and the Breakdowns to Come
The Russian economy is a mess. The ruble keeps plumbing new lows, lending across the country has all but stopped, sanctions (and counter-sanctions) are raising the specter of Soviet-style goods shortages, and even the Russian government now predicts 2016 will bring with it the worst recession since at least 1998.
Many — rightly — see the economic carnage being wrought in Russia as an outcome of the Putin government’s adventures in Ukraine and subsequent economic sanctions against Moscow. But that is only part of the story.
In Russia the core issue isn’t so much Ukraine as it is shale. U.S. energy output has skyrocketed and North America has already achieved functional energy independence. The consequent shockwaves through global energy markets are hiving what used to be the largest importing market — the United States — off of the global market. One consequence among many is collapse in oil prices. Russia has never — in any age — managed to maintain a strong economic structure without robust commodity export income. The ruble crash is still only in the very early stages. Cascading defaults are now inevitable.That is what third world countries do, try to extract wealth from the ground, the problem is that wealth doesn't come from natural resources, it comes from people. the oil and gas Russia has is only worth, what some hard working people are willing to pay for it. Russians can't drink oil, they need other things, and they've got to learn how to start making those things rather than just exporting oil and importing those things they need. Russia could be an immigrant country if they managed their economy jus right, instead of going to war and trying to conquer people. The Russians need to get out of that Napoleonic mindset, they should stop viewing the World as some kind of chess board in some game they need to win at others expense. When you trade everybody can win, it does not have to be win-lose! Japan tried this, and conquering and occupying other people's countries did not improve their standard of living, Tokyo ended up getting bombed instead, and if Putin goes too far, tens of millions of Russians could die in their cities instead of Putin building his Empire for Russia! Putin wants power, that is why he is doing his conquest thing, it is much easier for him to do that than to properly manage Russia's economy and create an environment conducive to business.
Nor will the carnage be short lived. U.S. shale is – somewhat unbelievably – still in its infancy. The merging of horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing technologies is really only a decade old and technological improvement is only now reaching critical mass. As of December 2015 full-cycle break-even costs in the three main U.S. shale oil basins — Bakken, Permian and Eagleford — are for the most part below $45 a barrel. Stunning new technologies are being developed, bundled into packages, and deployed as companies seek to find ways to produce more from fewer wells to save money.
And “full-cycle cost” is no longer a good measure of the total cost to drill a well as it includes everything from the drilling rights to the cleanup. As lower energy prices force consolidation, the remaining U.S. shale operators will acquire the single most expensive aspect of their operations — those drilling rights — at steep discounts. The dizzy year-on-year expansion in U.S. oil output is slowing, but it shows few signs of reversing.More broadly, there is not a single oil producer anywhere in the world that has budgeted for an oil price below $50, with most — and most notably, Russia, Iran and Venezuela — requiring prices to be roughly double their current level. Many of these countries’ spending is so high because they have come to rely on petrodollars to fund social programs or military funding that stabilizes their political systems. While it may take some time, civil breakdowns and economic meltdowns are the new normal for a vast raft of commodity-based countries
Another potential market for Russian Commodities is East Asia. The point is the Russians are not likely to want to kill their paying customers I think. Perhaps we look like an annoyance to them (USA), but we seem to be finding markets for our natural gas in Mexico and Canada. I am going to guess that the USA will not go all out to try to take everyone else's oil and natural gas market on the planet. But there is plenty of room with China. China burns 1/2 the coal on the planet. They apparently are quite polluted. It seems to me that any producer on the planet can sell natural gas to China to roll back the coal burning. That suggests a very big market for natural gas.
Problems for Russia and Opec, is we might be the low cost producer. Problem for us is we will need to use ships. It's up in the air I guess.
Oh well, iffin you believes in the runaway green and grits effect
, this is how you might think:
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-putin-a … .6z6nwr4j1Trump, Putin, and ExxonMobil team up to destroy the planet
The Bastards!
https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800 … 51HvA.jpegThe aligning interests between Russian President Vladimir Putin, Russia’s choice for U.S. president (Donald Trump), and Big Oil represents the gravest threat to humanity (and democracy) since the rise of the Axis powers in the 1930s.
That’s because while Trump may not be able to destroy global climate action and the landmark 2015 Paris climate deal all by himself — as he pledged to do during the campaign — he probably could do that with help from Russia and the trillion-dollar oil industry.
So much is explained by Trump’s Secretary of State choice. Media reports now say it will be Rex Tillerson, CEO of oil giant ExxonMobil, which had made a $500 billion oil deal with Putin that got blocked by sanctions.
Stalling the biggest oil deal ever did not just “put Exxon at risk,” as the Wall Street Journal reported in 2014. MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow explained lastLeave it to those idiot environmentalists to worry about Russia getting USA help to produce Gas and Oil, when it could be sold by Russia to China, to displace Coal burning. How stupid are they?
Anyway, I will risk global warming's effects in 50 years (When I am dead anyway), before I will not put in for a chance to make Russia see why it is in their interest not to get into a nuke event with us in the next 10 years.
So, hurray for Trump! Hurray for Rex!
*A side note: I am so glad Russia is willing to help Trump destroy the planet! I always wanted a destroyed planet
Here is some of Peter Zeihan's maps and demographic charts.
http://zeihan.com/the-map-room/Per Peter Zeihan, China's situation is not going to be that great as per demographics. Maybe some of their crazies might have wet dreams about Russia and the USA blowing each other up, but I think it is far more likely that Russia and the USA would like to make lots of money distributing Oil and Natural Gas to China and East Asia.
Why would you blow up the world when you can ride your horse with your shirt off, have lots of money, and power?
Let me see, lots of money and power vs. being quite dead from a nuclear attack. Decisions, Decisions........
#287 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-02-12 12:39:05
I just don't see a reason we should be in conflict with the Russians, and we need to convince he Russians that it is not in their best interest to be in conflict with us! One way to convince they is to argue that there are other cultures waiting in the wings to descend on our corpses and plunder our riches if we manage to kill ourselves off in a pointless nuclear war. Now if China thinks Russia is going to go to War with what they call "the West", then the Chinese may see it in their interests to help the Russians out, and then when there is a nuclear war that does not include them, they can just watch Russia, the United States, and Europe nuke each other, and they wait until the dust settles and all the survivors have finished dying, then they can move their one billion plus people onto all that new land that the Caucasian peoples have so vacated with their nice convenient nuclear war amongst themselves. Have the Russians picture this, hordes of Chinese moving in on the radioactive ruins of Moscow, to build new condominiums for their citizens. If Russians don't want that to happen, then they should be on our side.
#288 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-02-11 22:59:07
I can feel all the love from the rest of the membership.
I am afraid I will have to disappoint you Tom, and tell you parts of what I really think.
The Russians are not likely to see Iran exactly the way some of the leadership in this country do.
1) For one thing, they were sent supplies through Iran during WWII. Some at least from the USA. With the unbalanced nature of Nato, trying to be a new Roman Empire, and yet pushing towards Russia in the west of Russia, you can be certain that the Russians have looked at the value of having somewhat acceptable relationships with Iran, just in case. The areas of Nato which resemble the western Roman empire have a habit of doing bad things to Russia, and it's predecessor in some ways, the Byzantine Empire (Complete betrayal). Don't expect trust. Russian has had to spank them and send them back home repeatedly.
These are the states of the Russian Federation. If Russia wants to be a Superpower again, they can join with the United States, and subject all of their states and citizens to the US Constitution as US citizens, then Russia can grow and develop without the instability introduced by its government. Nostrodamus predicted this by the way. I think Russia would have a better future with us, than with some crazed bearded savages from Iran! Iran is a loser, it has a pathetic government that is keeping it poor and backwards. Now does Russia want to be a first world country or a third world one? Russia needs some help with its Democracy, and I can't think of a better way to get it started that for them to live under our constitution, because it works so much better than theirs!
2) For the sake of the Petro Dollar, and to fuel our alliances during the Cold War, we had to do Saudi Arabia's bidding, although not all of what we did was Saudi Arabia's fault. However, we did do very bad things to the Iranians. They are likely not the forgiving types. Eye for an Eye and so on.
Saudi Arabia is a rich third world country, it doesn't produce its own wealth, it imports it in exchange for crude oil. Real wealth comes from people, not the ground! Iran wants to go to war with the United States, if it does so, it will be destroyed! So how badly does Russia want o start World War III with us? By partnering with a country of fanatical savages that want to go to war, and don't mind being destroyed in the process, cause they believe in their version of God and the Afterlife, I don't see how it helps Russia to partner with these lunatics, do you? Iran gets into a war with the United States, the US retaliated against Iran by nuking their cities, and then it retaliates against Russia for helping them to get nukes. The United States is pretty much gone except for its nuclear retaliation in this scenario, if it perceives a Russian hand in it, Russia is not going to escape unharmed, and Iran may be just too fanatical to be deterred by our nukes. I don't think Russia wants to die in a nuclear war, do you? I think Russia is better off on the same side as the US than on opposing sides, if you disagree, please tell me how pointing nuke at the US and the US pointing nukes at them help them? Russia and the US are both European Christian societies, we shouldn't be enemies, unless that is you know how to win World War III!
3) We really should not try to have a dog in this fight, except to try to prevent nuclear exchanges for the sake of the world. We have Shale Oil, Shale Gas, in abundance, other resources, and the Canadians find it convenient to ship their oil through our country and if need be to sell their oil to us.
4) Back to the Russians. If America withdraws from Afghanistan, then Russia needs China and Iran as allies.
Why? Russia has nothing in common with them, they aren't Muslim and they aren't Chinese! the Chinese are a different race, while the Russians mostly look like us! You think two Caucasian races should be pointing nukes at each other ready to wipe each other out to make room for the Chinese and Muslims? I don't think so!
For Religious, Military, and Commercial reasons. The Iranian Shia are regarded by some extreme Suni's as heretics who may and should be slaughtered. The Russians will be in a similar boat, if the murders get the upper hand. So one cannot expect the Russians to forgo a potential ally that they can likely count on in that situation. They would be stupid to do that.
Muslims don't make good allies, they suck, as Any Russian who fought in the Afghan War in the 1980s can attest, they pretend to be your allies and then they stab you in the back, and it doesn't matter if they are Sunnis or Shiites, their differences are inconsequential to us, both have killed Americans and both practice terrorism! Russia has been a victim of both factions as well, starting with Genghis Khan!
As for the Ukraine, I have indicated to you before that one side of that "Country" identifies with the Polish historical cause, and the other with the Russian historical cause. They both believe in themselves. The Russians think of the Poles as unreliable Slavs who kiss the wests back end.
The Russians are part of the West, look at their round blue eyes if you don't believe me! Denying that they are part of the West is stupid and flies in the face of all facts! What is more important, a thousand years of Russian history or Karl Marx, a crackpot who's economic theories never worked for Russia or anyone else? Russia needs to move out from this idiot's shadow that has brought them nothing but suffering and oppression! A free Russia is in Russia's interest I think, not some third world tin pot dictator. Russia can really only be great once it gets rid of its tyrants, all of them!
The Poles are Catholic, because Rome will intervene on their behalf. However, it is most unwise to not understand the Russian position. The Romans and West Europeans attacked Byzantium when it needed help, in this endless desire to be the "Universal" entity. In doing so they finished it off and helped the Turks to finish their conquest. Russia is one of the more significant inheritors of the Byzantine heritage.
And what happened to the great city of Constantinople and Byzantium? it was sacked by the Turks, and the Turks still occupy the place!
So by taking a clear side for the Poles against the Russians, you are betraying Russia, and by the way betraying the United States, which is not a Roman Latin Empire, but also has been harassed culturally by those said entities. From the American perspective, although we can see sorry for the Polish cause if we use myopic vision, a broader vision will reveal that if we take one side to much then we betray the USA and it's people.
Poland and Russia are both Western Christian countries, they should not be enemies, especially when the Muslim world is at war with them!
As for the Crimea, I cannot for my life understand why our previous leadership was so stupid to force the Russia to "Las Vegas". Idiots!
Of course the Russians would take the chance. And once they had to play the gamble and it worked out to their favor, how in the world would you ever get them to go back. It is a done deal.
The Soviet Union should never have been, it was an interruption of the proper course of Russian history. the Soviet Union was ruled by a foreigner from Georgia, this Stalin. Stalin killed millions of Russians! What happened under Stalin's Empire was that some land was transferred from Russia to Ukraine, and Putin was trying to get it back. A good compromise would be for Russia to keep the land it currently has in exchange for Ukraine getting nukes to stabilize its current border with Russia, if there are still "Ukrainians" that want to be Russians after that, they can move across that border, since that border is not going to move across them!
Others should head such warnings. Push us to "Las Vegas", and we might make you regret it for a long time.
I don't get this "Los Vegas" reference, what are you trying to tell me, that Russians are bad Poker players?
There is another world. Many of you don't understand it. Many of you have been leveraging your positions, and you are quite vulnerable. I would advise stopping it.
That other world is rising. The world of the Pseudo Roman Empire is falling. I would not invest in failure if I were you.
Does not look that way from where I'm sitting. The Obama era is over, the US will recover, it made a mistake to trust him as their president, but the US is a strong country, the left has been exposed, they are out of power, and the Trump will weed the remainder out of the unelected parts of the government. I think this country is due for a new political alignment beside the one of Democrats and Republicans. the seeds of the new political alignment is within the Republican Party itself, there are factions within that party that absent competition from the Democrats, will develop into two new parties, ones that do not delude themselves with their own propaganda the way the Democrats have. We need to deal with the real world if we are to make real progress.
#289 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-02-11 12:51:11
The rose colored glasses are getting very dark....pay to play....
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jap … ns-n718881
With out approval of congress for such communications Flynn Discussed Sanctions With Russians Before Taking Office
Flynn's contacts with Sergey Kislyak, Russia's ambassador to the U.S., were initially seen by critics as a potential violation of a 1799 law called the Logan Act, which prohibits a private citizen from negotiating with a foreign power in a dispute with the United States. But that law has rarely if ever been cited in a prosecution
Top Fed Regulator to Resign in April, Setting Stage for Trump Shakeup
More Trump follower garbage Black Players Harassed With Racist Chants at 'Hick Night'
Remember this is a gift that will strike back....
Russia Considers Returning Snowden to U.S. to ‘Curry Favor’ With Trump
So it was not ok to give him back under Obama but now its ok under Trump to try and appease by giving him back now....to drop sanctions.....This going to be a bumpy 4 years if it lasts that long....
In the Trump era, congressional town halls are packed with protestersas this has not gone away either Russian dossier on Trump gaining credibility with law enforcement
Just to make one thing clear, Putin is the Junior partner in this, not Trump. Donald Trump, as the President of the United States is the most powerful man on the planet, and unlike Obama, he is going to wield it, not "lead from behind!" Putin can either get on the right side of history or get on the wrong side of history! Putin can be partners with Iran or us, the Taliban or us, not both! Russia is a Christian country, not a Muslim Country. Are Russia's friends the bearded maniacs who murdered a bunch of Russians in movie theaters and shopping malls in Russia, or are they us? Russia can attack countries like Georgia, and Ukraine with largely Christian populations, or it can g after Iran, and Iran has a big chunk or real estate, lots of warm water ports, things Russia would like, more importantly Russia won't get into conflict with us if it invades Iran! Maybe we can show Putin a way forward, a way to make Russia great again without getting into conflict with NATO, and we can eliminate one hostile developing nuclear power in the bargain. I don't see why the United States and Russia can't be allies, do you? I say we can buy off Ukraine by giving them nukes in return for not trying to get their territory stolen by the Russians back, then we can have peace on the European front and can concentrate on that troublesome Middle East!
#290 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-02-10 00:51:19
By the standard the media treated Obama, none of this "muck" rises to newsworthy! I don't really care whether any of Trump's businesses are affected by Trump being President or not. I don't think Trump is doing any of this to make money for himself. Trump is already a billionaire, I believe he seeks fame rather than fortune, he is 70 years old you know, he has made plenty of money already, there is really nothing for him to do except retire after he is President, he's got enough money for him to live comfortably for the rest of his life and for all his children and his two ex-wives and wife to live comfortably for the rest of their lives. Trump, unlike other people, has no need to make money off of government service, and the amount he could make is rather paltry compared to the mount he already has! And really, conducting a military operation so he can build a golf course in Yemen? Get real! There are lots of places Trump could build a golf course, where he doesn't need a military operation to make the place safe. When Trump can influence trillions to spend, I don't think a golf course in some unstable part of the World would really hold much interest for him, it would be a great way to lose money though! People, as a general rule, don't typically like to risk death when they play golf!
#291 Re: Human missions » Trump may fund the Spacex Mars Colonization plan » 2017-02-08 09:10:51
Tom-
In my view, your description was NASA "then," and not "now." NASA has become very conservative and risk adverse, and when an organization is "afraid to lose," they cannot develop strategies to win. Progress on everything has become glacially slow. I was at one time a huge cheerleader for NASA, but that was when Von Braun was still in the loop.
I am still waiting for some other space agency to beat NASA at anything, but the Chinese haven't even landed a man on the Moon yet, and neither have the Russians. In fact the Russians don't do much besides send things into low Earth orbit, their program is just as much stuck as ours, and you have seen pictures from the Juno probe haven't you?
Do you know of any space agency besides NASA that can get an image like this?
#292 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-02-07 22:53:38
I think its kind of obvious that the artist that drew this picture was sympathetic to the rioters. Look at what the Army brought to quell this riot, a cannon! And you can see the woman running out to some of the men, and the dog on its back maybe dead. The Union soldiers are distant and in the background. I also heard that during this riot, a bunch of blacks were lynched and hung from trees and lamp posts, but this picture doesn't show any of that!
#293 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-02-07 22:41:46
Tom, you are just the kind of racist, xenophobic, alternate-facts-believing idiot that we have had causing trouble all along in this country. It was idiots like that who convinced FDR to imprison loyal Japanese-Americans for the duration of WW2.
Do you really think a president that was commander in chief of a segregated armed forces needed in isolationist Republican to whisper in his ear and tell him to intern Japanese-Americans? You don't think he could have figured it out himself? You know, FDR was secretary of the Navy under Woodrow Wilson, himself a member of the KKK, FDR had no compunctions about working for such a racist as him. Wilson as the one who segregated the Armed forces, the Navy under FDR was segregated.
In hindsight, only a racist xenophobe would consider that a good policy decision today; it is widely regarded as a terrible mistake, and has been so regarded (and rightly so) for at least 60 years now.
How do you know it was a mistake? The fact that it worked and prevented Japanese-Americans from making attacks on other Americans on behalf of their ancestral homeland. The fact that there were Arab-Americans who have made attacks on other Americans on behalf of ISIS, makes me think Japanese-Americans could have done that also, and that FDR may have prevented some civilian deaths by doing so.
I think Trump is less racist than FDR as FDR was in charge of a segregated Armed Forces and Trump is not!
Yet that nonsense is exactly what we are doing with already-severely-vetted refugees, in spite of the fact that none of our terrorist attackers over here have ever come from those refugee populations. They came from simple visit visas or from self-radicalized citizens and naturalized citizens who fell for the "alternate facts" presented by extremist-Muslim propagandists.
Those radicalized citizens were Muslim to start with, they were vulnerable to extremist-Muslim propagandists in a way, Christians and Jews were not!
The famous 442nd Army division that fought so bravely against the Nazis were all Japanese-Americans from the internment camps at Manzanar and the rest. No one interned ever turned out to be a threat.
Because FDR did not give them a chance to become one! It was figured that the Japanese-Americans would have no trouble fighting Germans, but they were not permitted to fight in the Pacific against their cousins from Japan.
Some served with distinction, even after having their lives and livelihoods destroyed by internment. Would you have chosen to serve after being abused like that? They did.
My own maternal grandfather changed his name from Wilhelm Friedrich Olsen to William Frederick Olsen because of the anti-German hysteria after the 1915 sinking of the Lusitania. His mother was German, and his father was Danish. He was a US Navy battleship sailor during WW1. So how much of a threat was he, just because of his German ancestry? I'll give you a one-word hint: zero.
Did Germans worship the Kaiser as a god? The Japanese did with their Emperor. The Japanese were fanatical, I didn't hear too much about fanatical Germans.
My own father-in-law fought surface naval engagements and hand-to-hand with a pistol against the Japanese in WW2. He had the worst case of PTSD I ever heard of, compounded with dementia as he aged. Yet he did not hate Japanese just because they were Japanese, and/or because their government was an evil empire before VJ Day. My own wife is living proof: she is half-Japanese.
Did he hate those Japanese that were shooting at him and frankly trying to kill him? What about those Japanese that crashed their airplanes into US ships? What about those Japanese that pretended to surrender and then blew themselves up when some American GIs went in to take them in, and even more despicable, what about those Japanese soldiers that used Japanese civilians, such as girls, planted explosives on them, an then at gun point told them to go surrender to American soldiers and then detonated the explosives killing the girl and the surrounding American GIs. And of course there was the despicable way the Japanese soldiers treated American POWs and civilians they captured, using them as slave labor, starving them, chopping their heads off and so forth! That was very personal stuff, how can you not hate people who did stuff like that?
During wartime, we didn't let many nationals in from enemy countries except maybe some refugees or those wishing to switch sides, and that's likely closer to the right thing to do.
As for your rioting example, how about the treatment of the army veterans marching for promised benefits after WW1? It was a republican president who ordered the Army troops to fire on them.
The Germans had their equivalent, you heard of the Nazi party, that started out as a bunch if disgruntled World War I veterans, perhaps Herbert Hoover was thinking of those people and got scared. We can't have war veterans taking over the government by force, and then doing what afterwards? Hitler was one of those war veterans, the danger was very real!
Now who's doing the violence, liberals or conservatives? There are examples of such bad behavior on both sides throughout our history, so being selective in what you quote is just more BS.
My point IS NOT to defend either liberal or conservative political behavior. My point IS that extremized politics, like extremized religion, begets EVIL. I think substituting blind belief in a political belief system, instead of using truth and common sense, is sending us back to the dark ages. You seem to be such an extremist.
GW
I learn from historical events, and I see that Socialism, wherever it has been tried has failed, that leaves us only with free markets due to the process of elimination. No country has ever become rich and prosperous due to socialism.
#294 Re: Unmanned probes » Using the SLS for outer Solar System exploration? » 2017-02-07 22:08:11
Whats wrong with using an exotic propulsion system? The SLS could haul one into space, then we can test it out, and if it works, we can send something to Titan, and later on perhaps this technology could be used to get to Mars. We already sent a probe to Saturn, but with the SLS, we can send a bigger and more capable one, I think this time we ought to focus on Titan, have a probe directly orbit that Moon instead of Saturn and making a number of flybys. I was thinking perhaps a probe in polar orbit around Titan to map the entire surface, get a real good look at it, it would be sort of a Titan Viking type deal, except we would land a rover instead of a fixed lander.
#295 Re: Human missions » Trump may fund the Spacex Mars Colonization plan » 2017-02-07 22:00:52
We went through this with the military base consolidation thing a few years ago. Pork politics screwed that up. What makes you think pork politics won't screw up a NASA consolidation? It has already screwed up NASA's mandated objectives with SLS/Orion.
It's not so much NASA as it is Congress that is at fault here. Although NASA itself has expanded into a gigantic bureaucracy essentially unable to function on ordinary human timescales. Reminds me of government in India, actually.
GW
It is still the foremost space agency in the World! NASA has a bigger budget than any of the others, and it is doing stuff no one else is doing. After almost 50 years, not a single country has followed up on NASA with a manned Moon landing of its own. Does that mean NASA was 50 years ahead of anyone else? Only one country has sent astronauts up into space onboard a shuttle of its own design, other countries have sent their astronauts on our shuttle, but no one else has built a shuttle and sent astronauts into space on it, Russia had shuttle but it was never manned. NASA is the only space agency to have sent probes to the outer planets, although the ESA hitch hiked a probe on one two of our rockets, it was NASA that got them there, NASA has pioneered a number of space technologies that are now being used by private industry. NASA has done a lot of things, particularly in technology development, that other people are now using.
#296 Re: Human missions » Moon mission today - Dragon & Mars hab » 2017-02-07 14:37:26
Yep, build something and throw it away!
#297 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-02-07 12:13:30
Well GW, how many Germans and Japanese did we let into our country during World War II? Was that a large number of people? Does that mark us as Xenophobes if we didn't let in a lot of nationals of Enemy countries we were fighting at the time, while we were fighting their countries? Do you suppose there were some Japanese citizens out their that were willing to "die for their Emperor" if only they could get their feet on American soil? they were doing it to our soldiers overseas, why would you suppose that they would change their behavior suddenly if they were allowed to immigrate during World War II?
As for rioting, Democrats have more of a reputation for doing that than Republicans, lets go back to the riots of New York in 1863, this occurred shortly after the battle of Gettysburg.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots
Date July 13, 1863 – July 16, 1863
Location Manhattan, New York, U.S.
Result Riots ultimately suppressed
Casualties
Death(s) 119–120
Injuries 2,000
The rioters were largely Democrats who were opposed to the War, and the opposed the war violently! Has anything changed?
#298 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-02-06 23:09:25
Trump is already committing the same group of sins....he just has not had time to do them all....
SEAL, American Girl Die in First Trump-Era U.S. Military Raid all for Yemen Raid Had Secret Target: Al Qaeda Leader Qassim Al-Rimi
So is his love of Putin Not a Friend, Poisoned Russian Activist's Wife Tells Trump and I do not think our country’s so innocent either....So who is going to suffer more under trump or clinton Trump Voters Stand to Suffer Most From Obamacare Repeal and a Trade War so yes there are Protests Against Trump’s Policies Erupt for Third Weekend in Cities Large and Small
Conservatives forget history in discrediting Trump protestersObama’s election in 2008 was preceded and followed by violent attacks and property destruction targeted against minorities.
Kaylon Johnson, an African American campaign worker for Obama, was physically assaulted for wearing an Obama T-shirt in Louisiana following the 2008 election. The three white male attackers shouted “Fuck Obama!” and “Nigger president!” as they broke Johnson’s nose and fractured his eye-socket, requiring surgery.
Here's how America 'peacefully' responded to Obama's first election, Anti-Trump protests gotta end, right?
Remember All the Violent, Anti-Obama Protests by Republicans in 2008 and 2012?Selling weapons to ISIS and al-Qaeda? only half truth ploy to get Al-qaeda to fight ISIS as ARMS TO AL-QAEDA: U.S. Generals Admit Washington Has Backed Islamic Militants in Syria and both claimed that Arms dealer says Clinton and Obama accidentally gave guns to ISIS, Al Qaeda and Benghazi attackers - then tried to scapegoat him for their screw-up with failed $10m felony case
The obama executive orders to overturn our immigration laws Conservative obstructionism that republicans did why trying to pass actual law for taking care of it. So someone had to do something....
How it was reported Cash Flowed to Clinton Foundation Amid Russian Uranium Deal private sales of Canadian company with uranium-mining stakes stretching from Central Asia to the American West. Clinton's dumbness for doing what they thought was right actually was the wrong thing to do....http://www.businessinsider.com/everything-we-know-about-the-hillary-clinton-russia-uranium-scandal-2015-4
Not following all of this, some thoughts seem jumbled, But I think Trump has a strategy, he considers Iran to be the greater enemy, and he wants to turn Russia against Iran, so he's willing to overlook some of Russia's flaws to do this. Russia is after all a western Christian country built on European traditions. We have more in common with Russia than we do with Iran. FDR did the same thing with Russia to defeat Germany.
#299 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-02-06 23:02:01
Tom, watch the video by Hasan Piker. He points out he can disagree with a policy of Obama despite the fact he voted for him. I disagree with some actions of Obama, even though he made a lot of good promises.
I disagree with settling the issue of secession by war. The Confederacy should have had the right to secede peacefully. It was brought to the Supreme Court, and should have been settled there. That does not conflict with my disapproval of slavery. President Lincoln chose a compromise, that all new states would not be permitted slavery, but states that had slavery would be permitted to continue. This would make slavery a minority within the Union as the Union expanded. His intention was to phase out slavery peacefully. Notice the key word: "peacefully".
Also realize my discomfort with this immigration ban. Restricting immigration from an enemy country during war is legitimate. However, the problem is Trump did not say this was to halt immigration of terrorists, it was to halt immigration from Muslim countries.
Well actually he did, what other reason could he have to halt immigration from just seven Muslim countries that are prone to terrorism?
That was his mistake. As I already explained, Osama bin Laden did not have authority under Muslim law to issue a Fatwa, but made the declaration anyway. Osama bin Laden tried to turn this from a terrorist issue into a religious issue. He wanted all Muslims on his side. But the King of Saudi Arabia was not, and religious leaders were not. If you allow your opponent to frame this as religious, you give your opponent a vast pool of allies and potential recruits. There are more people in the word who practice the Muslim faith than Christians, so allowing this to become a religious crusade could become very very dangerous. What the "liberals" are trying to do is cut off those recruits from terrorists.
Well violence is always easier, maybe that's what some people find attractive about Islam and makes them want to convert to it. Muhammad was a war leader after all and Jesus was a pacifist. Muhammad had multiple wives and slaves, and other people want those too. Jesus had none of those things, he believed in the Golden Rule, where you do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Muhammad was a bandit, he stole things raided desert caravans, he had an underage wife, he was far from a perfect human being!
CBC: Prosecute ISIS fighters for murder, rape, slavery, torture — not just terrorism, expert says
To stop the flow of recruits to ISIS, Canada and its allies need to put captured members of the group on trial for each crime they commit rather than lumping their offences under the generic term of terrorism, says the Canadian head of a group investigating atrocities in Iraq and Syria.
Bill Wiley, executive director for the Commission for International Justice and Accountability, has been working with investigators on the ground to tie crimes such as systematic murder, rape, slavery and torture to the ISIS leadership.
He says that while putting captured ISIS fighters on trial for terrorism may be easier than prosecuting them for slavery, genocide and the persecution of minorities, it will not cut off the flow of recruits to the militant group.
"It's a relatively quick way to prosecute individuals, but … with a lot of possible joiners of these groups, if you prosecute an [ISIS] member as a terrorist, it may serve as an incentive to others to join because they'll say: 'Well, if we're terrorists, what about George Bush, what about Tony Blair and so forth,'" Wiley told CBC's Power & Politics.
"We really feel that this counterterrorism effort needs to be coupled with a criminal prosecutorial effort, which reveals groups such as the Islamic State to essentially be criminal syndicates engaged in murder, narcotics trafficking, sexual slavery and so forth — to leave aside the terrorist label wherever possible," Wiley said.
#300 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-02-06 14:19:46
Although it's great fun to watch adults act like toddlers throwing temper tantrums, this really does need to stop for me to ever take liberals seriously again. I watched multiple videos of grown women rocking back-and-forth on the ground, screaming and crying, when declarations were made that Secretary Clinton lost the general election and also when President Trump was sworn in as our President.
Virtually every critique of President Obama's performance in office was labelled racism or bigotry by the ministry of liberal propaganda. The commentary I've read on various liberal propaganda sites masquerading as journalism clearly illustrates that the label applies equally to an unhealthy number of equally bigoted liberals who are, by their own words, every bit as hateful and spiteful as they claim conservatives are.
As far as immigration is concerned, the US has no legal obligation whatsoever to admit people to this country who have no legal right to be here to begin with. For better or worse, our elected government officials get to decide who comes here and who stays here. Every other sovereign nation on this planet has the same legal standing to enforce their borders and immigration laws. The US has been extraordinarily charitable to immigrants throughout our nation's history and I believe we should continue our long standing tradition of permitting immigrants to come here to seek a better way of life. However, there are some people who should not be permitted to immigrate to the US because they do not come here seeking a better way of life.
It is the duty and responsibility of every government to protect their own citizenry from foreigners who may harm them. President Trump placed a temporary immigration restriction on foreign nationals from certain countries who are coming into the US so that our Immigration and Customs Enforcement can formulate more effective methods for screening immigrants for the express purpose of protecting American citizens from terrorists.
Is it the slightest bit curious to anyone else here that so-called journalists are calling this so-called "ban on muslims" a "death sentence" for LGBTQ community members from those countries? Is it possible that some of the people coming here from those countries don't share our values and would murder their fellow citizens if not restrained by government? Can we stop pretending that all religions are equivalently violent towards non-believers, or even each other, at certain points in time in human history?
All the rest of this hubbub about President Trump is "Rules for Radicals" in action. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. That's the extent of the psychological sophistication of the liberal assault on President Trump.
LGBTQ is a politically correct label, I notice how frequently these labels change, the think this s improving things for the people in question to change what they are called. I personally don't like the word "Gays" because that seems to imply that they have permanent smiles plastered on their faces all the time. It is curious that liberals seem to advocate that we bring in all these illiberal people into our country, that seems to be similar to RobertDyck advocating for the South, now the Southerners at that time weren't liberal, but there was something they did advocate that Robert seems to approve of, namely the breakup of the United States of America. You know Abraham Lincoln and his Republican Party were considered liberal at the time, but it was a strong muscular liberalism, a patriotic form of liberalism, it was the sort of liberalism I have never seen in my lifetime!
The kind of liberalism I see, seems to want to tear down the United States, by weakening it from within, they want to undermine our culture, weaken our military, they say they want peace, yet they want to bring in warmongers from the Middle East and make them US citizens so they can tear down our republic from within! This is not the sort of liberal that Abraham Lincoln was, I don't know why the modern weak liberalism, that hates America became so fashionable, is it because they feel Lenin and Marx surplanted George Washington as the leading revolutionary in their minds? the American Revolution was so "Yesterday" in their mind, the new modern revolution was the Russian Revolution, that had so many cultural icons, including that t-shirt with Che Gueverra on it, they though those Soviet posters were so cool and deriguer, while frumpy old George Washington was so old fogy, so unhip and frumpy. Modern liberals like new things, no old things, they wanted class struggle, not a republic. the Soviet Union is part of the ash heap of history, it was one of those things that didn't work, yet liberals won't let go of it!