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While not being a cutback due to reduced shuttle flights it how ever is effected by when will it actually go on the ealiest possible one.
A room with a view for the International Space Station: Completion of the cupola observation module
http://www.esa.int/export/esaCP/SEMZH40 … dex_0.html
The cupola project is the outcome of a bilateral barter agreement between the European Space Agency and NASA, under which ESA is providing the cupola for the ISS in exchange for Shuttle transportation of European equipment and experiments to the station.
For lack of a better place to post news.
Firm may help fight bacteria in space
Special fabric undergoes NASA tests
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps....1
Definitely needed for the long journey to Mars and on the ISS
Lack of funds blocking Brazil's space program
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004- … 917110.htm
Nasa is not alone with this problem.
I had remembered some other space planes for mars scout missions from various Universities. One has done the research needed to deploy after re-entry without landing to get ready to fly. It blew an inflatable set of wings up and then cured them in the martian atmosphere by UV.
I would gladly eat crow though I was not intending for a bet if it meant that some company would finally do space the right way at minimal cost and often for all. But I have been since the Apollo era wishing for such a trip myself.
I stayed up many a night watching the old black and white video of them on the moon and have seen the chance for that to happen slip away with the years.
Nasa appears unwilling to share the space knowledge it has gained from that era and the many years that have followed under the cloak of national security and of fear. Nasa has shown time and time again that it can do better than what they are doing with the examples of there space probes but they have floundered since there last trip to the moon so many years ago.
So lets look at what is needed by private industry to get to space since it would be developing it from scratch.
1 cryrogenic fuels and oxidizers facilities
2 solid fuels or other fuels for initial stage boost
3 machining capability to create the tanks for the fuel
4 launch pad and support infrastruture
5 rocket assembly an construction buildings
6 licencing documents
7 funding
I sure this list is much longer than I have but it highlights some of the difficulties in front of the private companies to come.
It has taken 40 years plus just to get to where nasa started with human flight not robotic. With that pace we will all be dead before private industry will even try for orbital flight even if it were robotic. No destination for human endevers means no need for heavy lift and no need for infrastructure.
Oh by the way when you go to a place like McD's or Burger k do you throw out the plastic cups for the large soft drink as it is miningless when though.. Think poor and the jobs will get done. Recycle as much as you can or as often as you can when possible. Things do have value but maybe not to deep pockets. They can just get or ask for more.
Cover the top of the balloon with a thin film solar cells and make an electrical heater element to make the co2 rise to provide the lift. Or possibly use some form of nuclear reaction to generate the heat.
So what if the end of the tether is an anti gravity or magnetic repulser system being constantly recharged by solar panels or from a nuclear reactor. Does that change the equation of drag versus the need for rocket boosting fuel use.
ya maybe to star trek ish with the tracter beam idea but just a thought.
So basically the counter balance part of the stationis a higher orbital speed but matching the orbital speed of the Earth to syncronize it over one spot. The delta in speeds being from end to end a relationship to how far in orbit about the Earth with regards to each others end of the Tether. Would not centrifical forces come into play also on such a design.
Nothing say that the tether has to be kept as a small diameter cable. This could also be of other functions. Depending on how low in orbit it would get or if it could into the atmoshpere it could then lessen the amount of oxygen needed to be transported to the station by creating a syphon system to pull in the needed O2.
Well here is the page from space Island Group that really spells out why they can not have shuttle external tanks.
It is also the main reason while private industry is held out of the game and must re-invent the wheel when it comes to Rockets and of Space exploration.
Well here is the page from space Island Group that really spells out why they can not have shuttle external tanks.
It is also the main reason while private industry is held out of the game and must re-invent the wheel when it comes to Rockets and of Space exploration.
I was surprised that it was not being process initially aboard the ISS but that would mean a lot more expense and real science work to be done.
The samples should prove very interesting but I think they will show simular results when compared to the lunar samples brought back so many years ago.
List of Authors I find very interest since it is more like a united nations who's who.
Surname Name Country of Origin Current Occupation
Abiko Satoko Japan Ph.D. Student in Space Robotics
Tohoku University, Japan
Amaldi Andrea Italy Project Controller, ESA Human Spaceflight Dir. The Netherlands
Barr Yael Israel Medical Doctor
Israeli Aerospace Medicine Institute, Israel
Belin de Chantemèle Eric France Ph.D. Student Space Cardiovascular Physiology Université
Claude Bernard Lyon 1, France
Bonnewijn Sabrina Belgium Mechanical Engineer (Aerospace and Aeronautics) Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Belgium
Chen Diane Canada Software Product Assurance Engineer
MD Robotics, Canada
Dewhurst Brian USA Staff Officer, Board on Physics and Astronomy National Research Council, USA
Eley Serena USA B.Sc. in Physics
California Institute of Technology, USA
Englund Dirk Germany/USA Ph.D. Student in Applied Physics
Stanford University, USA
Faiyetole Ayodele Nigeria Student, Master of Space Studies 2003-2004 International Space University, France
Fontaine Sylvie France Design Engineer, Ariane 5 Solid Propellant Booster Systems,
EADS Space Transportation, Bordeaux, France
Gebic Kemal Turkey Master’s Space Technologies Application, France;
Graduate Physics, France; Graduate Astronomy, Turkey
Grafe Mathias Germany M.Sc. Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Technical University of Dresden, Germany
Hales Jan Harry Denmark M.Sc. Student in Electrical Engineering Technical University of Denmark, Denmark
Hanratty C. David Ireland MEngSc (Research), B.E. (Mechanical) University College Dublin, Ireland
Jones Brandon USA Engineer
Titan Corporation, Houston, USA
Jones Edward USA Developmental Space Systems Engineer
Los Angeles Air Force Base, California, USA
Jones Amanda USA GPS Project Engineer
Los Angeles Air Force Base, California, USA
Klaus Kurt USA M.S. in Planetary Science
Adv. Computing, The Boeing Company, USA
Laufer René Germany Aerospace Engineer, Institute of Space Systems University of Stuttgart, Germany
Li Bin China Propulsion Systems Engineer, China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation, China
Lim Dawn Canada Medical Student
University of Toronto, Canada
Matsumoto Kunihiro Japan ISS Payload Engineer,
NASDA, Japan
Mayrhofer Florian Austria Student of Molecular Biology
University of Vienna, Vienna, Austria
Müller Sánchez Francisco Mexico Master Student in Satellite Engineering Universität Karlsruhe, Karlsruhe, Germany
Nangalia Vishal UK Medical Doctor
United Kingdom v
Nguyen Hugo Sweden Researcher, The Ångstrom Space Technology Centre Uppsala University, Sweden
Nicolini Marco Italy Calculus, Physics, and Astronomy Teacher
Science and Technology Reporter, Italy
Ó Cuilleanáin Cian Ireland Student Master of Space Studies 03/04, ISU; B.E. (Mechanical)
University College Dublin, Ireland
Olansen Jon USA Lead Safety Engineer, Space Shuttle Upgrades
NASA/Johnson Space Center, Houston, USA
Organek Alison Canada Medical Student
University of Toronto, Canada
O'Rourke Johanna Australia Lawyer
Blake Dawson Waldron, Australia
Poon Tim Canada M.Sc. Student Electrical and Computer Eng. University of
Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Porfiri Katerina Greece Survey Engineer
Greek Ministry of Finance, Greece
Rico Julio France Master Engineer in Industrial Systems Engineering
Master’s Degree in Space Tech. Apps., France
Sentenai Alina Germany Master Student in Aerospace Engineering TU Munich, Germany
Master Student in General Engineering, EC Paris, France
Slane Kenneth USA Director, Business Practices, and Ethics Advisor
Rocketdyne Propulsion and Power, USA
Smith Leissa Canada Systems Engineer
MD Robotics, Brampton, Canada
Smith Heather USA Research Assistant
SETI Institute/ NASA Ames, USA
Takahashi Yuki USA/Japan Ph.D. Student in Astrophysics
University of California, Berkeley, USA
Tanaka Kentaro Japan International Marketing Section
JSAT Corporation, Tokyo, Japan
Tripp Timothy USA Senior Manager, Product Engineering
The Boeing Company, Huntsville, Alabama, USA
Van der List Marco The Netherlands Technical Project Manager
Bradford Engineering B.V., The Netherlands
Weik Johannes Germany/Bolivia Architect
Stuttgart, Germany
Zhu Beiyuan China Engineer, China Aerospace Science and Technology
Corporation, China
Zhu Zhichun China Engineer, China Aerospace Science and Technology
Corporation, China
Spelling your link would help with the extra T.
But I still did not find the execsummary pdf.
Martian Republic
I too feel that the shuttle external tank has value if it where give a ride the rest of the way up into orbit. To be re-used in a number of manners. They only cost 40 million in comparision to the 1 billion shuttle flight cost but it is essentially free once there in orbit. As you note there would have been at least a 100 of them to be reused. One a lot more garbage could go into one of them versus the very small progress M or proton. Also the progress M or proton could be recycled for it's engines and such making a very in expensive mission to the moon from the station possible.
Martian Republic
I too feel that the shuttle external tank has value if it where give a ride the rest of the way up into orbit. To be re-used in a number of manners. They only cost 40 million in comparition to the 1 billion shuttle flight cost but it is essentially free once there in orbit. As you note there would have been at least a 100 of them to be reused. One a lot more garbage could go into one of them versus the very small progress M or proton. Also the Progress M or proton could be recycled for it's engines and such making a very in expensive mission to the moon from the station possible.
I am posting this also under the moon direct topic.
Sorry guy's I am trying to caught up from the long weekend and all the numerous post to this topic.
Josh Cryer
You put it so nicely with the, if we develope it for the moon it will work for Mars approach to design needs.
Grypd
Your use of robotics for base construction is a plus. In another thread you make use of simular talents for re-use of any thing that is brought to the ISS. If it is there it is free since it has already be paid for.
Gennaro
The use of nuclear do to its higher outputting levels is a plus for a large base but it is a very costly in the early stages of man building initial bases on either the moon or Mars. Think free when it comes to solar energy and to the initial lower cost of the panels.
Great chemistry lessen Of getting what is needed for survival though chemical reactions.
The provision is that the plug is never pulled is the feeling I share as well, but how to get the funding and to lower the costs as we go is the question.
deagleninja
Quote:
We could send 2 Americans, 2 Russians, 1 European, 1 Japanesse, and 1 Chinesse and include every major space program in the world. Keep it simple by using mainly US tech with a dash of ESA and Russia and let the other counties help foot the bill for representation.
This is a great concept to get the other partner nations on the band wagon to the moon especially for those that have no put a man on it yet.
comstar03
Your right lets not think in 2D or just of building on the surfice.
Lets dig caves and line them to keep the precious gases from escaping, making of green houses inside these caverns and so much more.. Whether the moon ever has a large population it does not matter but it must become self sustaining and suffiencent.
Dook
Yes caves or self contained habitats.
The navies of the world live in subs for extended periods of time. We could learn a lot about the logistics of population to resources needed as viewed though there use as it would apply to either the moon or mars as the goal.
By the way the threads on your vehicles would be in high demand for use in either case.
As for the TV broadcast of the 60's nastalgia Black and white of the Moon or the color of Mars, I want both. Watching a reality show on the moon is only going to be interesting if it is made interesting. Not just simply a running camera catching everything that goes on.
As you noted with space, cost which must be lower in order to get industry to start investing. They also must have a place to call theirs to use as well in the mean time. Even if it is just an empty can with only the bare essentials to survive in it.
One big shot to mars direct just little more than flags and foot prints due mostly to travel time and the overly cautious Nasa at this time. Not to mention insufficient funds to build with while both the shuttle and the ISS are in use. Lowering costs for the ISS and for shuttle use is a must.
Major shuttle return to flight implementation plan announced for end of month. Since Nasa seems o be giving up on some recommendations.
Space elevator contest proposed ‘Elevator:2010’ aimed
at encouraging technology development
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5792719/
Seems like every activity wants to use the contest or bake off competitive style one upmanship to get things going....
We all know of what it entails to create a heavy lift vehicle.
1 payload max limit
2 stage payload drive alternate lander if possible
3 stage to leave orbit
4 stage to leave earth
5 external strap ons if needed
Selection of off the shelf may be possible for fuel to tank and of even some engines per stage combinations. The remainder is wiring and plumbing to get everything to where it needs to connect.
Grypd: Are you thinking solar reflector re-directors or are you thinking of solar cell collecting and beaming of the energy to the moon via microwave band.
You are right in trying to get something for free in the reuse of the ISS. Though it it still be a long way off before any privately own corporation can send anybody to it.
While very unique in that it is an alternative fuel for power generation. Australian engineers have created an electricity generator fuelled by decomposing bananas, and hope to build a full size fruit-fired power station.
Bananas could power Aussie homes