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#29126 Re: Civilization and Culture » The Economics of Space Exploration » 2004-11-30 15:12:07
Other than what you have talked about the only other items of value are those things that are in small quantities here on Earth and those of items of great value( gold, Diamonds ect..) but cost of getting these things from space to return to Earth must be less than the cost of doing so here.
#29127 Re: Not So Free Chat » A bet - Adrian and Josh - discussion » 2004-11-30 14:51:18
So, a redesigned ISS would leave some parts out, right? :hm:
Bigelow is building his own private space stations... and if you listen carefully, while he wants space tourism, he is gearing up business for business and government...
What's a government to do with a piece of abandoned ISS hardware in a post-Bigelow space station universe? I can draw a road map, but I think you all may get the idea.
Give the spare parts to the bigelow hotel chain in exchange for putting them up there for him.. 
#29128 Re: Not So Free Chat » Bush next four years agenda - Can he achieve his goals » 2004-11-30 14:30:14
Here is another resignation Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge steps down as chief in the latest of Cabinet changes whose name became synonymous with the color-code for terror alerts and tutorials about how to prepare for possible attack.
#29129 Re: Space Policy » Time For A Lobbynig Progrma For A Mars Mission - Time to play politics » 2004-11-30 12:29:45
I know that as of recent there have been other groups that have spoken out against the space exploration vision or at least of parts of it or of its funding mechanism in whole or in part as defined by the President.
Not only should they lobby for it but they could also lobby for funding of there activities or programs that would either supplement or go beyond what Nasa is doing. I know the desert research and arctic facilities could use more than just support some funding could go a long way.
#29130 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Question about gasses temperature » 2004-11-30 11:12:35
Well Electronics design component data books are a lot like what you all have been describing and even more so when you get into the dynamics of the individual components at the nano size construction. Even the little bit that I have been working with Lasers with respect to optical wave length, power level, collimation of beam and just in general how a laser produces the light is enough sometimes to make my head spin.
#29131 Re: Human missions » Return to flight slipping » 2004-11-30 09:58:08
I think Bill's previous though was with regards to not building a SDV if I have that right for what he was meaning.
But you are right also in that most of the time the good workers are the ones let go. Usually the management only looks at the bottom line of pay roll or of benefits package reductions.
#29132 Re: Human missions » Gravity - Gravity » 2004-11-30 09:54:43
Good points by both GraemeSkinner and Shaun Barrett on the dynamics of changing the gravity while not only going to mars but also for the return process home after the extended stay.
I believe the Japanese contribution to the ISS needs to be moved up for when it will be launched aboard the next few shuttles if I recall correctly on the centrifuge.
This tool would allow for all the needed research into the gravity question.
#29133 Re: Human missions » Has Dr. Zubrin Addressed Mars Direct Objections? - A few questions? » 2004-11-30 09:41:56
Plan what, the Dollars needed from budgetary years or the proper design of the vehicle or vehicles to do the job with an over estimation of funds needed though contracting to the big guy's in the business.
We could do this today if the funds were given as they are needed to pay for the end product.
#29134 Re: Human missions » What Kind of Manned Program Should We Push For? - A Time to choose » 2004-11-30 08:45:51
Not just a convincing, but a justification of the dollars to what will be achieved. Impart that also means how many will go, for how long, the risk of death, and to what knowledge will be gained.
For myself a non member of any society or organization it is more in addition or to the fact of what is to follow that influences that first few flights if a means is put forth that achieves the initial goals.
So what are the initial goals to achieve?
Each step towards the goal must be incremental and not five steps forward only to fall 3 back as we have done with the current Nasa space programs since the moon was last visited.
As my handle implies I am a Space Nut... just the run of the mill person that can see the future if costs are managed.
#29135 Re: Space Policy » Space fairing Nations - The ever changing view » 2004-11-30 06:22:57
"Edwards AFB has historically been selected as a primary testing site for new aircraft and space vehicles because of the remote surroundings and viable landing options," according to the draft study. "The hard flat surface of the Rogers Dry Lakebeds and hard surface runways has proven ideal for normal aircraft landings. The open terrain and lack of vertical features has contributed to the safe recovery of many test vehicles that would not have been possible in a less remote area."
The Defense Department is interested in hypersonic technology to power aircraft and missiles. NASA is interested in the technology for launching spacecraft.
#29136 Re: Human missions » ISS Woes & To-Mars » 2004-11-30 06:18:52
With the current budget now passed with less than but close to the asked for figure, what next will be delayed or out right cancelled in the coming years as we continue to build the ISS using the three remaining shuttles until it is complete or until we reach the retirement deadline as set out in the vision. I think this
Editorial | NASA Funding Spend wisely; don't get lost in space head line says it best.
Congress has given NASA a 5 percent raise in its 2005 budget, even as most federal agencies received budget cuts. But NASA still has to make some tough spending decisions if it's ever to achieve its deep-space exploration goals. America needs to have a heart-to-heart talk with itself to decide what it wants to do in space exploration. The lack of certainty now is one reason it was so hard to secure a modest budget increase for NASA, even with the support of the President and powerful House Majority Leader Tom Delay (R., Texas). Delay's newly reapportioned district now includes the Johnson Space Flight Center. The $388 billion spending bill approved last week includes $16.2 billion for NASA, $44 million less than Bush sought.
Budget analysts call for NASA cuts
Alice Rivlin, now a Brookings' analysts on Monday said Bush administration proposals to send astronauts back to the moon and on to Mars should be put on the budget chopping block. "I think we can learn much more about the universe much cheaper from unmanned vehicles," said Rivlin, now a Brookings' analyst. She added unmanned exploration also would improve safety.
"The most important lesson we've learned (from the manned space program) is how difficult it is to put a man in space and how little we've learned that could not be learned by satellites ...," said Niskanen, who has a more conservative policy outlook.
#29137 Re: Human missions » New X Prize Sets Sights - Science, Technology and Social Solutions » 2004-11-30 05:56:24
Take a page out of the xprize book NASA intends to Lure Innovators With Cash by fleshing out plans to award prize money for space missions, technology demonstrations and student educational programs.
The agency envisions four tiers of competitions, including spaceflight missions, such as the $50-million America's Space Prize contest sponsored by hotel operator Robert Bigelow. NASA is considering partnering with Bigelow, who plans to award the money to the first team that can develop and fly a reusable orbital vehicle capable of carrying at least five passengers.
#29138 Re: Human missions » Return to flight slipping » 2004-11-30 05:51:26
NASA Announces Space Shuttle Return-To-Flight Briefing
The latest version of "NASA's Implementation Plan for Space Shuttle Return to Flight and Beyond" will be released publicly Monday morning Dec. 6, and the agency has scheduled a news conference in the afternoon.
The news briefing will be live on NASA TV at 2 p.m. EST from NASA's Johnson Space Center, Houston. The plan and the media briefing will outline the agency's progress in safely returning Space Shuttles to flight. The briefing also will focus on progress in Shuttle processing, testing and training. Briefing participants:– Bill Parsons, Space Shuttle program manager
– Wayne Hale, deputy Space Shuttle program manager
– John Casper, manager, Space Shuttle Management Integration and Planning
#29139 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct *2* - ...continue here. » 2004-11-30 05:29:56
Last I had checked on the lunar missions from various nations
Japan 2006 seen recent article about financial troubles
china 2008 possible mission, I think this relies on the next manned mission success
India 2007 2008 looking for small sensor payloads to add to it
ESA 2008 orbiter, 2009 lander
USA LRO last I checked was struggling under budget woes for the 2007 2008 ball park
Basically all are targeting what each nation believe it needs to carry on any sort of manned mission in the future. I do not believe that there is much cooperation in the planning as to what each will carry on for there own specific missions. Then again there has been little on the data that each would collect or the sharing let alone the paying a fee for that data if it were useful towards the SEV.
Edit
so what do we really need to go for when we can find moon rocks here on earth.
Moon rock found in Antarctica Meteorite-hunting team makes rare discovery
#29140 Re: Human missions » The need for a Moon direct *2* - ...continue here. » 2004-11-29 14:24:50
Scientists Call For Global Cooperation In Space Programme
Scientists from leading space nations closed a conference on moon exploration here last Friday with a call for global cooperation to achieve a permanent human lunar base by 2024.
#29141 Re: Human missions » Mars One Way Vs. ISS » 2004-11-29 14:01:01
Mars construction needs to be plastic and composites.
Yes, but you can't use the ordinary methods of producing plastics, due to Mars' lack of oil. I think that a Mars colony would end up using genetically engineered plants to produce most of the materials that they need.
I think most oil wells here on Earth are surrounded by propane or methane fields of gas and that the hit of methane in the atmosphere may also mean there is oil quite possibly...
I also agree that longer stays would be a huge expense savings not to mention that I am sure someone would want to stay anyways.
Peace, quiet, no robbery ect..
#29142 Re: Planetary transportation » Martian Gashopper Aircraft » 2004-11-29 08:45:30
Interesting how compressed gas (air of any kind) can be used.
I would assume that the solar cells are on the wings and that the storage tanks are there as well. Would not take to much to modify the unit for manned flight control.
#29143 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Moon & Helium 3 » 2004-11-29 07:14:40
Yup this item has been discussed under several threads but most conclude that until there is a need it will only be just research into using it for future energy concepts. Mining it for profit just is not in the cards.
#29144 Re: Planetary transportation » Running on Compressed Air? » 2004-11-29 07:11:53
I like the contest item on the big auto manufactures but would they go for it on presteg alone...
As for the first Mars buggy, I think it will be more in line with the lunar buggy concepts but on steriods. More general purposes than for the long haul concepts of mileage.
#29145 Re: Human missions » Mars One Way Vs. ISS » 2004-11-29 07:05:54
Especially since you can not wait 9 plus months for the spare parts to arrive from Earth. Giving them the capability to make any part required, would also cost more up front as part of any mechanical design but would be well worth it in the end run.
#29146 Re: Human missions » Has Dr. Zubrin Addressed Mars Direct Objections? - A few questions? » 2004-11-29 07:01:34
Another thought is that since we are on a very long duration from orbit to orbit I would assume we will be needing a set of space suits for any repairs that must be made. Those suits would be different from those that would be used on the martian surface.
#29147 Re: Human missions » My Change To Mars Direct/Semi-Direct Mission Plans - An alteration that might help » 2004-11-29 06:37:09
Good point on the refueling of just what ever is considered the lander portion for Mars for relaunch to orbit.
I also like the safety net approach to the ITV or what I consider orbit to orbit vehicle but that would require using the Iss as the means to return to earth and an orbiting station around Mars as well to make this work for reusuability of vehicles.
If one considers the size of the ITV as being able to provide the resources for half the trip and the rest for half the duration of being on the planet, then I think we can achieve this with out much hardship to the financial side of things.
Basically the apollo capsule/ CM on steroids link to another for the trip to start to mars.
#29148 Re: Human missions » JOBS for the 21st Century - by Christopher R. Willis (1992) » 2004-11-29 06:20:30
yup jobs are a problem if you the worker wants to get paid at roughly 2 times the minimum wage ($5.45 hr), in order to live a happy life style. Most service oriented jobs pay nowadays 6 to 7 for the typical convenience store clerk. There just are not enough jobs requiring a college education out there....
#29149 Re: Human missions » Interesting comments on - Russian RD-180 rocket engine » 2004-11-29 06:16:38
Yup sounds very familiar Bwhite with regards to manufacturing as a whole.
But I think Pratt an Whitney is also making that same engine here in the states if I recall correctly. I am sure that even if done efficiently it will still cost more only simply because of the higher labor costs involved since that is a unionized shop.
#29150 Re: Human missions » SpaceShipOne: Time Magazine - Hails as Invention of the Year » 2004-11-29 06:12:19
Will with the most recent delay on the Canadian DaVinci rocket one can only hope that they get their's flight right and that SpaceShip One will not be alone with regards to completing the xprize sub orbital requirement. Also why should SpaceShip Ones flights stop? Should they not be pushing the ship to its limits, adapting it by adding sensors and trying to increase the peak of flight?