New Mars Forums

"Old geezers of Mars unite!" Trebuchet said, as the Belgian - the most famed connoisseur of beer on the planet - rose from his seat in the back. "We just need some dynamite and a rover or two."

"What would we need dynamite for?" one of the three Cobraites said, confused, as the rest of the bar's patrons fled from Ryxe's Exorcist impersonation.

"You said Cobra will come only in Mars's darkest hour, right? We'll blow up the geothermal plant... that'll get things rolling. Hell, Cobra might come out of hiding just for that - he always did hate to miss the party."

"You are wise," another Cobraite said. "I believe we can steal some explosives from the mines nearby. Many followers of the Great Prophet of Mars work there. They should help us."

"Then let's get going!" Trebuchet said, striding out of the bar easily in the low gravity.

It was decades after the great Founding Period of Mars, and the ochre flag of the Republic of Mars flew over the historic TempleBar, where an aged Trebuchet served beer and groused about the degenerate nature of today's youth. "I remember the good old days, when men were men, rabbits were mutants, and Yu Knights were dead! What happened?" The assorted younger Martians at the bar, none of whom had made the long journey from the Old Planet themselves, simply stopped and stared at the old-timer. The silence of the bar was only broken by the rasping breath filters of pilgrims paying homage to the statue of Darth Cobra holding a shot of liquor and crushing a Yu Knight beneath his feet.

"Aww, things weren't like that back then, old timer," one of the young 'uns said. He looked barely old enough to shave, nevermind drink alcohol... though Mars didn't have a drinking age. "My parents were always on my case about how lazy I was, and how they walked five miles to get to from their hab to the airlocks in town."

"Your parents DID walk five miles to town, you young punk! I know they did because they knew they couldn't drive back!" The kids laughed, thinking he was just joking, but the angry Trebuchet slammed his fist down, making the whole bar shake.

"You think this is funny? This is your own history you're forgetting!"

"History?" One of the kids pointed a thumb in the direction of Darth Cobra. "It's just tall tales you originals tell everyone."

"How dare you blaspheme the Great Prophet!" one of the Cobraites hissed.

"He looks sort of like a Yu Knight..." one of the other Cobraites said, as everyone tensed for a fight.

"Now, none of that in the bar," Trebuchet said, having pulled a shotgun from beneath the counter. Everyone looked and sat down slowly. "It's no tall tales, now. I knew Cobra back in the day. He'd sit right over there," Trebuchet pointed to where the statue now stood, "and proclaim his message to the masses."

"Cobra is a myth!" one of the young Martians said.

"A myth! Why, I'll find him so you can say that to his face!" Slamming the shotgun back into its spot under the bar (and incidentally shooting out one end of it), the old man got out from behind the counter.

"You intend to find the prophet?" one of the Cobraites said.

"Damn straight," the elderly Trebuchet said.

"But he said he would only return in Mars's darkest hour!" one of the other followers said.

"Well then, I guess I just have to immanentize this eschaton, don't I?" he answered, with a clever look on his face. "Say, you boys mind lending a hand...?"

Iran: Part of axis of evil, does not have nukes, invadeable

Wanting nukes is not having nukes. North Korea is a special case because they already had a pseudo-nuclear threat in the ability to level Seoul with conventional artillery. This allowed them to bridge the gap between wanting and having.

Iran does not have that capability. Ergo, this is suicidal on the mullah's part. Not that that's unusual for Islamic fundies.

As I said once before, these clowns couldn't beat Saddam. They have zero chance at even fighting to a draw against us.

The insurgents only have the ability to take what we're willing to let them take. Fallujah was taking a beatdown before someone (Cobra's 'weak Romans') decided it was better to not clear out the town, same with Sadr. They have the strength to push the troops out of places that we want to stay in only in their fevered imaginations.

:laugh: AnarCorp, the disorganization organization.

I like this vision of Mars; Utah crossed with Australia. It's also probably going to be true no matter what; the people most likely to want to move to another planet are going to be either desperate to escape Earth, fringy wild eyed dreamers, and religious/political splinter groups. One hell of a party, in other words. The resulting society would be... interesting. Certainly more original and fresh than the tired Earth.

I wonder how big an electoral vote prize China and India are...

...wait a minute, they're not US states! </sarcasm>

The fact that there is a population explosion somewhere else is no reason for fearfulness here. As far as immigrants go, you cut the numbers back to where you feel you can assimilate them; it's not like the Middle East is right over the border. No need to bring in Nazi references. They're free to screw up their own lands however badly they want, and their military strength is so pathetic that I'm unworried about them going on a spree of conquests in 30 to 50 years. By that time the US will probably be technologically advanced to the point where they might as well be fighting the Borg ("Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Your cultural distinctiveness will be obliterated by an endless sprawl of Wal-Marts and McDonalds...").

Ultimately, Islamic terror loses the War on Terror. The only question is how many people die in the process.

Then I guess you mostly die, considering he's already got his gun trained on you.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/internat … .html]Link

I imagine that if it turns out a stronger gravitational field is needed for early development of the embryo/fetus, that putting one of these in a centrifuge is a viable option.

Of course, this also opens up the freakishly Brave New World colonization scenario where you send a few adults and a shitload of frozen embryos and artificial wombs.

"I'm so glad to be a Beta..."

Brr. Though that might be the only reasonable way to colonize other star systems, in the long term.

Ha ha!

Martian Republic is out of his freakin' gourd. :laugh:

Then again, he doesn't realize that I'm your go-between with the Illuminati.

I opened this thread expecting to find some halfbaked, inane theory than blamed the US in a roundabout way, and got a pleasant surprise.

This actually is a large part of my thinking about why Al-Qaeda launched 9/11, and other terrorist attacks. Of course, it is not the only reason, because simply saying "They want to establish a unified 'Ummah (Islamic community)" doesn't address why they decided the best way of accomplishing this was by violently attacking a superpower in a manner which would enrage it to no end. Your link explains what they thought would happen, but not why, and it doesn't address the other factors.

The first thing to remember about our current enemies is that they're not strictly rational. While they plan things out logically enough, they, like some other movements in the past (fascism being an excellent example) have a worldview shaped by their will to believe in certain ideas. In this case, the central dogma that Al-Qaeda unquestioningly accepts includes a view of Islam as being the only pure and proper way, and any culture, nation, or system not based on Islam being decadent and seriously flawed and thus fragile (among other things). Absolutely fixed beliefs of this nature are incredibly dangerous to hold, because reasoning from this false premise leads you to incredibly stupid ideas, like killing thousands of people on network television by suicide attack in the biggest city of a superpower state. In their view, America is a weak, decadent country, distracted by comparatively scantily-clad women, alcohol, and scandal-mongering. Bush was not terribly wrong when he talked about the terrorists hating us because of our freedom. They viewed our freedom as license, which we freely indulged in; hence their contempt. Al-Qaeda expected us to cave like, well, France.

Another reason is also steeped in that unquestioning fanaticism. Al-Qaeda has something of a mystical bent to its pronouncements, and tends to pick 'historical' days to launch attacks when they can. To a degree, the concept of jihad has infused warfare with a magical element, and they view the act of violence as a transformative act, turning what would just be senseless carnage into a sort of perverse morality play, one where they live out a fantasy of being martyrs dying in the service of their god. The fact that this tactic may be suboptimal doesn't really impact them; this would conflict with the drama they have scripted for themselves.

The last reason is, well, sheer freakin' stupidity. No one (other than a large, nuclear power) seriously contemplates kicking the tiger in the butt like that. You simply have to be out of your gourd to provoke a nuclear power in that way, especially with the probability that the fourth plane was aimed at the White House or Congress. The United States did briefly consider, then dismissed, a nuclear strike against the Al-Qaeda camps out in the middle of nowhere.

(Actually, I've since come to the conclusion that such a course might have been wise. We would have:
A) Probably been able to use the temporary goodwill of the world to largely paper over the shock of using nuclear weapons. We could always claim, with a large measure of truth, that we were under extreme stress and confusion.
B) Osama would be unquestionably dead, having been vaporized.
C) Not even people in their wrong minds would seriously allow terrorists in their borders after that sort of spastic US response.)

What I would consider 'another Vietnam': Thousands of aging boomers having a flashback to their youth and annoying me ceaselessly with pointless slogans, mindless protests, and the general dung-tossing antics of the extreme leftist drugged by their own rhetoric.

In other words, I believe that this is 'another Vietnam', in the sense that I am severely annoyed by grandstanding leftists. Happily, their time has passed, and the war will be won.

Because that would ADD complexity and weight?

The lawyers.