New Mars Forums

Leverage.

We need some all-American political hardball leverage.

Not directly on topic, yet two Senators appear to want to extend the orbiter program as long as possible.

Did they http://www.flatoday.com/news/space/stor … N.htm]miss the memo where GWB vowed to retire the orbiter by 2010 come hell or high water?

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Another quote:

Visit the Moon, aim for Mars. Okay, I can live with that.

Mea culpa if a previous thread offered http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-04u.html]this.

A simple way to by-pass registration requirements.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/19 … 0322/76355

I am so 2003 sometimes. . .

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Link seems slow, maybe its just my SBC DSL line.

Okay, suppose Boeing donates to the wrong candidate. 

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Has anybody asked the ISS partners whether they might prefer to joint venture on http://www.space.com/news/igy_space_040719.html]this and just forget about ISS altogether?

We can't break an agreement all parties agree to cancel.

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CEV ain't nothing but a view graph. . .

Hmmm. . .

I am being persuaded that STS can finish ISS by 2010. Crews of 2 or 3 help that greatly, IMHO.

But okay lets say it does.

President Bush has already left office. The orbiter has worked flawlessly between 2005 and 2010. As GCNRevenger has said himself, without orbiter ISS has essentially no use or purpose.

(Albeit with only a little use or purpose with STS)

NASA comes to the next President in 2010 and says, STS has been working flawlessly and if we keep using it we can do so much more. . .

The magic words.  :;):

Are we talking 30 days, 60 days, 90 days?

Okay, now lets translate this requirement into flight rates. I apologize if I have the rotation order wrong.

Shuttle Atlantic goes up.
Discovery is on deck.

Discovery goes up.
Endeavor is on deck.

Now, Endeavor cannot go up until Atlantis is ready. What is a reasonable post-Columbia turnaround for orbiter flight preparation?

How many flights per year is that? How do we possibly finish ISS by 2010?

A 30 day ready requirement? A Ready 30 shuttle? If not needed do we stand it down from "Ready 30" until the next one is ready to play backstop?

Endeavor is at "Ready 30" and Discovery proceeds flawlessly. Do we need to downgrade Endeavor's status until Atlantis is ready and then re-prep Endeavor?

Now suppose a 90 day requirement? What if a critical ISS component breaks in the meantime? There is my short story scenario.

Practically speaking GCNRevenger is correct. A new Hubble-2 might well be a better deal than a $1 billion robot mission that might fail. So why is no one in NASA proposing that?

It solves the issues with that Maryland Seantor and takes lots of egg off O'Keefe's face.

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Still, if it is "fundamentally irresponsible" to fly the orbiter to Hubble why isn't it "fundamentally irresponsible" to risk using ISS as a safe haven?

God forbid 8 astronauuts are stranded at ISS and only 6 can come down on 2 Soyuz because of technical glitches and 2 astronauts suffocate. ISS would then be a doomed station.

Or all astronauts are saved yet the life support and food and water supplies are totally trashed with no convenient way to replenish or refurbish the station.

Unless we abandon ISS, we will need another way to finish & support ISS besides the orbiter. If we find another way to support ISS, we can stick a Soyuz DM in the orbiter cargo bay and send 3 astronauts to service Hubble.

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Edit:  I see a nasty short story scenario. 8 or 9 astronauts on ISS. Orbiter at ISS cannot be repaired. Back up orbiter delayed or life support starts failing faster than predicted.

One Soyuz can bring back 3. A second Soyuz can bring back 3 more. A third Soyuz cannot be readied in time.

Now what?

Moore is the Democrat answer to Rush Limbaugh. Two idiots don't make. . .

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I won't see Fahrenheit 9/11 - - it will make me too angry, both at Moore for being an @ssh*le and Bush for being an idiot.

I know I am ten years behind the times, yet earlier this week I finally read Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson.

The plot was fairly weak, IMHO, but the writing style rocked.

And anyone who can name a character Hiro Protagonist gets two thumbs up from me.

Robert, thank you for the link.

I have just finished reading his argument why PVC tubes are just as safe as aluminum for amateur solid rocket applications.

Any reason why a large made-on-Mars PVC tube would not work for launching an uncrewed payload to low Mars orbit using Mg/CO2 solid rockets? 100% made-on-Mars lift would seem to be a pre-condition to any viable export business.

Once in low Mars orbit, a cycling solar ion tug, using Lo road trajectories, could dock with the payloads and transfer to LEO or L1.

Iran? I thought you meant http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/st … 9.gif]Iraq!

My bad.  :;):  ???