You are not logged in.
Pages: 1
Any definitive statements as to a single cause of earths magnetic field are unfounded. Current theories on the source of earths magnetic field are just that, they are "theoretical."
We don't know for sure that it is only from a convecting spinning molten core in interaction with the mantle and that it this and this only which is wholey responsible for the magnetosphere.
In my estimation it is a number of factors which also contribute to the convection and spinning of all layers;
and it is the hydrology,
and it is the depth and magnitude of the underground biosphere,
and it is the type of material composition in relation to bodies nearby exerting gravitational influence,
and it is very slightly surface life,
and it is the composition of the atmosphere.
I second what Shaun said:
We have to remember that pulling co2 from the atmosphere is a negative influence to a terraforming process.
There are a lot of factors which criss cross each other in there negative and positive influence when it comes to the role that water plays in the terraforming project.
Positive influences of water release during terraforming:
1)After heating (with perflurocarbons) it helps us penetrate the heat into the crust but that is regulated by the porosity of the regolith.
2)It is abundant (current hydrogen maps are indeed water; it can't be anything else as methane and ammonia don't last long on mars) and has a thermal absortion band that will help the greenhouse gas blanket.
1 and 2 interplay both negatively and positively as water vapor adds atmopsere it becomes slightly harder & harder to release co2 in the colder areas but... it being an added gas - as it is added it supports surface liquid water stability since the water "triple point" will change. Brine will stay grounded helping our heating effect penetrate into the surface.
3)It is life supporting. Numer 1 medium for bacteria to move around and should help them protect against radiation to some extent while the co2 is being dissassociated to form an ozone layer.
3a)We need it to grow plants and maybe use it for energy processes.
4)Keeps the dust grounded. PFC's are much more effective as a greenhouse blanket than a dust storm and dust storms just ruin equipment. As temperatures increase over time water will be more evenly distributed across the planet. Probably initial water and co2 release effects will be the #1 cause of dust storms since what we would be doing is sort of analogous to waking a sleeping giant.
5)It will weather the olivine into other minerals increasing the variety of the types of resources we have available and seperating them into more clearly defined areas.
5a)I can't remember how since it's been sometime since I've studied terraforming but - I'm pretty sure that it will through this process slightly increase the atmospheric content of oxygen by interacting with the many oxides in the regolith.
6) In liquid form on the surface it provides a medium for magnetic particles to move around and clump together and also align them selves along the current strong crustal magnetic lines that are currently there.
7) Over time it will weather and expose different areas in the north now covered by "rust dust" so that we can easily access any previously "hard to get" minerals that may exist under that layer.
8) Of course we all know that water can be used for a variety of things.
lastly it is my opinion that circulating water will help to form a magnetosphere.
Negative influences of water of terraforming:
1) As we are mining fluorine and carbon and sulfur and combining them to spew out pfc's and sf6 gases for our greenhouse blanket water acts in a negative way in that as the blanket is forming and the water is heating up and evaporating/subliming into the atmosphere the atmosphere is thickening. Thickening of the atmosphere although helpful in the long term for humans and also supportive of surface liquid water stability it keeps the co2 from releasing in the colder and "harder to release" areas during our terraforming project.
The whole relationship between pfc/sf6 co2 and water is dependent on the continuing increase of surface temperatures and it works on a negative curve.
PFC's although the number one method for terraforming mars by leveraging the power of the sun is highly effective at first and as time goes the thicker the atmosphere gets the less effective it gets in releasing co2.
The first 100 millibars of co2 and water that gets released will be far more effective in heating the planet than the next 100 millbars and so on.
Eventually after many years the "hard to get at" areas of co2 still remain hard to get at due to temperature depth and low porosity of the regolith and a thick atmosphere preventing sublimation.
2) Water clouds will reflect some sunlight.
3) It seems also that surface water will spread and unless surface temperatures can be stabily increased, ice will form and this will also increase albedo and work against us.
Look at earths albedo.
BOTTOM LINE:
As far as I'm concerned it seems to me that we have only the following options to bring mars up to a STABLE earth temperature and an atmopshere from which we can start to work with.
1)We send nuclear powered PFC's/sf6 machines that mine and spew the gases into the atmopshere.
2)We turn the planet dark as possible by converting the rust in the regolith into magnetite by using nuclear powered slow roving machines that inject anaerobic hydrogen dependent rust converting micro-organisms and have drills that drill into the surface and heat the regolith up to provide a safe haven for these organsims until temperatures permit them to spread on their own. This method works in the exact opposite curve of pfc's machines (miniscule effect at first - humongous effect many years later) and provides the much needed underlying support of stabily increased surface temperatures which the use of pfc's would depend on.
3) Whatever form of black clorophyl that was found in the florida waters recently needs to be isolated cultivated and made to be "on the ready" for depositing in the martian oceans.
3) Fully catalog and isolate the current earth underground organisms that contribute to upper mantle/lower crust convection and send a diverse payload of these to mars for injection into the mars crust at the appropriate depth to insure adequate temperature for their survival and proliferation.
That covers all the above plus possibly sets us up for long term nitrogen creation by these underground organisms. Nitrates/nitrites come from dead life. There is a lot more living space in the planet than on the surface and utilizing the leverage of micro-organisms to pull the volumous potential of nitrogen production which that living space provides is a long term optimum method for our much needed buffer gas on the surface.
Inhabitating mars will involve maintenance by way of maintaining dark surfaces. Laws and rules will come about for it.
Laws and rules will come about for maintaining fluorine and carbon levels off limits for commercial uses. Reserved for the maintaining of pfc's.
Lakes and seas will have to maintain a certain level of black clorophyl.
From what I have read thus far (And I have examined it thoroughly and continue to reexamine it) on terraforming there are three things that I think could realistically be done to terraform mars. Actually 2 but one is a a temporary help or assist.
The first one is the widely accepted idea of mining and cooking up the regolith for the fluorine, sulfur and carbon gases and making SF6 and a couple of other PFC (perflurocarbons) gases that have a farely wide range of thermal absorbtion bands.
They cover a lot that CO2 and water vapor wouldn't and depending on which ones you use the greenhouse strengths of all of them are in the "thousands of times stronger than CO2 range" as a greenhouse gas and there lifetimes are thousands of years.
So that's a pretty well accepted method to terraform.
SF6 and pfc's.
It would have to have a mining machine and a cooker/combiner machine and I guess a waste handling machine. I don't really know all the mechanical details to it but I do know that that is the main answer to terraforming mars to get it to an earthlike average temperature of 288kelvin.
It puts a greehouse blanket of pfc's into the atmosphere with only something like ten or 12 parts per billion.
In process of doing this it releases the trapped CO2 in the poles (because of the temperature increase) and theoretically there is some loosely bound CO2 in the regolith outside of the equator.
So as the CO2 gets released it further increases the thermal range of the greenhouse blanket that is being created with the pfc's but the thing is ...is that most likely there is atleast 300 millibars of this CO2 (global total - poles and regolith) which in volume is orders of magnitude more than the pfc's that we created.
And as the CO2 starts subliming into the atmosphere it just keeps increasing as the hotter it gets the more CO2 gets released.
AND as this "runaway" (as it's called) is happening; the water is also evaporating which also has it's thermal range as a greenhouse gas and also adds to the atmosphere pressure.
Looking at it overall Fogg and McKay recently (in a new paper) did an evaluation of a wide variety of terraforming techniques and calculated it out based on predictions of 100 and 200 and 350 millibars of CO2 trapped globally. The whole purpose of the analysis was to look at effectiveness and the question of time scale was not really addressed seeing as there are still some open questions.
Plus I thought of a good technique that they didn't know about.
The whole paper basically states that pfc's will be the center role of any terraforming we do but we will have to employ more than one techinique.
However there are three major things (and one minor) that could reduce the effectiveness of using pfc's.
The first one is:
The surface temperature has to keep increasing faster than the atmosphere thickens with CO2 and water (there is a natural state of equilibrium that mars will try to get to)
so that the CO2 will continue to release.
At a certain pressure it won't release anymore in cold areas and so we are back to relying solely on the pfc's strength as it is being created and so the process slows down by magnitudes and completely stops in others.
But hold on...
The second one is:
The reflectivity of clouds.
As we release the greenhouse gases the clouds will form and reflect some of the sun away from the planet. It's not really figured in to the equations in Fogg and McKays paper but it is mentioned. It seems to me that it is a major factor though especially given all the water that we found with odyssey after this paper was written. After all with earth having an albedo of someething like .34 and mars at around .20 right now it seems to me like we should expect around a .05 increase so that would almost ruin everything since the whole effectiveness of using pfc's hinges on the surface temperature increasing faster than the atmosphere thickens.
The third one is:
The porousity of the regolith and how loosely the co2 is bound in it.
If the regolith has a good porousity (lots o holes) then as water trickles down the sun would defrost the CO2 and water out of the ground faster.
A minor one is:
Possibly CO2 clouds will serve to reflect some of the sun away as the project is ongoing.
Now that's as far as that paper is concerned.
The second method that I've heard of as a temporary measure to prop up and support the pfc/co2 process is using black lichen.
Black lichen seems to me like a good supporting mechanism to the pfc/co2 process so that we get an artificial albedo reduction while the process is occuring. Lichen could be engineered to be black and they do grow at very low temperatures but it would only be a surface coating and they have slow growth rates so we would have to alter them to grow faster along with possibly neccessitating bringing a large supply of them (tons!) to start the process.
The one I thought of was to use 4 very slow roving nuclear powered regolith heating machines with drills that drill down into the regoith about four or five feet and release a large batch of anaerobic iron eaters. The iron eaters will use the hydrogen in the water that is in the ground and ingest the rust and "reduce it". They turn it from (gee where are my notes?)......well anyways....
They turn the rust that's in the ground into magnetite. And magnetite is black (permanent albedo reduction). There is a great deal of rust on mars.
The idea is that only one injection is needed since the organisms will travel with the heat source. The machines are simple and could be doubled up with other weather instruments. They simple touch down, inject their loads, drill in and heat up until approximately 50% of the mass underneath them is converted and then they just move over slightly and drill back in and heat up again. In a pac man like fashion they can be remote controlled easily. It's a uphill battle but for the purposes of albedo reduction in the long term it's permanent and as it plugs along the environment (for them) gets warmer and warmer. Even without the use of pfc's it can be started at the equator since there is sufficient water there in most places for the purposes of a project like this.
Also; in contrast to the way "pfc's/co2 release" act in such a way as to have a decreased effect as time goes on this method I propose increases it's temperature effect on the environment as time goes on with it's main product being an increased surface temperature.
The limiting factor is that as far as I know "anaerobic iron eaters" are mesophilic (living between 25 and 40 celsius) as far as I know so they will rely on the machines greatly and of course the details will have to be all worked out and simulations done so that it is determined that the organisms will indeed travel and propagate with the heat source through the underground martian regolith.
However there are a lot of "BIG PLUSES" to using this method as an assist to pfc's. You can read all about them and debates I've had in the "red views" thread here or over on the space.com message boards on any of the terraforming mars or related threads.
Terraforming creates an atmosphere and hydrological weathering which along with the depositing of life puts a constant churning and converting of compounds which will contribute to this magnetosphere.
In my opinion a good companion to the pfc machines to create the stable thick atmosphere and heat up the planet is nuclear powered very slow roving regolith heaters that intially inject mesophilic anaerobic bacteria into the first four or five feet into the regolith that will convert the 20% rust to magnetite.
These little traveling "magnetite mothers" that drill down into the surface and heat up for a month and then move over three feet and drill back down and reheat up is the perfect companion.
Why?
1)It's effects are on a curve i.e., It accomplishes very little at the start and increases exponentially over time.
Just as the pfc machines would. With their chain reaction release of the trapped co2 in the regolith and caps.
2) It can be run on a remote control basis with very little directions needed much like a satellite saving the cost of sending humans.
3)It can be doubled with other scientific observational monitoring equipment.
5)Nasa is re-introducing the use of nuclear power.
6)A solar panel could be added on for additional power.
7)Starting high in the northern hemisphere and working around and downwards should ensure plenty of water in the ground for the easy moving and spreading of the bacteria and would be in time synchronization with the moist weather and atmosphere that would be created later by the pfc machines.
7a)It slightly contributes to the purpose of the pfc machines. It should act like a water magnet to some degree drawing in water from adjadcent underground areas and slowly evaporating it into the atmosphere along with any co2 although these effects would be minsicule in the overall view.
8)After the 2 or four rovers step down and initially inject their large load of underground "rust to magnetite" producers they sit there and heat up until approximately 60% of the mass underneath them has been converted.
They then move over three or four feet and redrill down and heat up. This leaves behind a small area (say 25%) of what they have already converted and gains a small area of what they have not converted. This relieves the machines from having to redeposit fresh batches of bacteria into the new area they move into. The effect created is that as the machines move they spread the organism because the organism will travel with the heat source.
9)Normal mutation over time should result in the organism adapting to the colder conditions thus it adapts towards the colder conditions at the same time that it and the pfc machines are contributing to the warming of them. The end result will be that as time goes on the organism will be less and less dependent on the machines.
Eventually independence is achieved.
The organism spreads on it's own blackening the entire planet.
This relieves the machines of their duties.
10)These machines now relieved of their duties could be used for other purposes. For example a secondary mission. Or if power is now fully consumed whatever is needed (e.g. batteries, nuclear material) to resupply them could be sent on additional already scheduled missions if they are designed in such a way they could for example have secondary missions as part of the ongoing "mars internet" program being worked on by nasa.
11) Injecting this "magenetite maker" into the regolith in this way with this method results in a permanent long lasting reduction in albedo.
Blowing off of dust and regolith moving around does not ruin the effect that all the money and time has been spent to create.
Water carrying new rust down into the regolith makes for more food for the organism.
Which would be converted.
Eventually water being wide spread the albedo will be increased just like here on earth where the clouds have a certain reflectivity. This method fights/"counter acts" that possible effect which has a chance to ruin our terraforming efforts.
12)This underground rust now converted to magnetite stands to grow downwards on it's own.
Hence contributing to much needed future underground biomass.
13) It stands to reason that it would contribute to the existing magnetosphere which also insures any terraforming efforts.
14)It's albedo effect alone only serves to raise the temperature of mars by 5 to 10 degress but reading analysis by Fogg and McKay of all other current terraforming methods the most important factor in both time scale and effectiveness is the surface temperature so this method reinforces any other method that will be used that is known so far
Well there is good evidence to suggest that Mars was once very blue i.e. very similar to here but without life. As we study the planets in this solar system more we will soon figure out some of the histories of the smaller bodies such as the minor planets, moons, and smaller planets such as Mars, mercury, pluto, and venus.
Although I think it's impossible and unneccesary to figure out all of them we will eventually put forth theories and confirm them as to what "recently" occured in solar system history and so we will have a more realistic view of what is possible and what is not in regards to terraforming and mining.
But my point here is that Mars is old -
chemically, elementaly, in it's orbit, in it's relationship to the other planets.
Propping back up the atmosphere with pfc's and lowering the albedo in a relatively short time and introducing simple life forms sets Mars back (almost) on it's previous condition plus life.
Plus life!
Also the life forms here also have age.
This quality of "the beauty of life as it has evolved over the millenia here" that you speak of will be transfered in some respects to this new planet.
Although it will never be earth it will still be beautiful with it's own beauty. We will see it blue again and have a gift with the addition of life that is priceless and will be unique for quite a long time (until we go traveling in the distant future and are colonizing other planets).
Yes the soil and the presence of a volume of biologically aged waste matter. The one argument that cannot be overcome.
Yes that will take time.
But to some degree for mars it is simply a question of volume -
of, "how much life is on the planet", as much of the soil here is recycled (gets used by life).
My view is that mars is just a smaller, frozen, with a partially ripped off atmosphere, but similar version of the earth minus life.
With a huge volume of iron oxide, olivine, and some other elements as blast debris that has been weathered down and mixed into the upper layers of crust of this planet.
On a scale of one to ten as to terraformable planets -
ten being the best and one being the worst - in this stage of our technological devolopment - I would say that mars has to be a 8.
Minus two for distance from the sun. Minus two for gravity.
Minus two for lack of nitrogen.
Plus two for proximity.
Plus one for not having a sizable moon causing extra bs gravity tugging. It could be argued that tides and volcanoes and large moon stuff are life friendly but I think we will see that Mars' slightly elliptical orbit and intendent weathering from such will be more comfortable for life than tides extra volcanoes and earthquakes.
Plus one for not having life already there creating an ethical dillema and a neccessity to endanger that life for us to enhance ours.
(Minus one lack of atmosphere/albedo. Plus one iron oxide, co2, olivine)
I'd rather have this than something green with say .50 or .60 or .70 or even 1.2, 1.5g gravity that is already inhabited by some form of life, that is closer to it's star.
Why because then it would be less habitable.
Most likely life would have evolved over millenia to a much different atmosphere. We would have an ethical dillema on our hands. A competition with it's native life.
If it was uninhabitated but not green but better gravity and temperature that would be better. Even better would be sufficient nitrogen already existing.
But there would be a big minus because of distance from us.
With the data now to hand with this discovery of this underground extromophile "Archae" that eats iron oxide and turns it into magnetite releasing the oxygen -
what could be more ideal than this planet Mars for terraforming?
Not much.
This iron oxide deposit to some degree "cancels out" the atmosphere that got stripped off and it's present albedo (red).
I mean look here. Here we have a volume of indigenous life both basic and complicated that has survived cycles and cycles and cycles of sets of millions of years of weathering.
All the little competition things that have went on for sooooo long.
All the phases that life has gone through.
And here we have a planet in close proximity. To the SAME star.
With almost the same qualities.
We raise the albedo using arachae (leveraging tremendous amounts of energy that we otherwise could not produce in any forseeably tolerable time scale),
we prop back up the atmosphere,
we introduce more basic life forms to the now tolerable temperate planet, and then we start putting the food chain there.
We have in our hands the capability of custom sculpting a food chain that has the experience and desire to survive in abundance.
On a planet without presently existing competitive life.
The chances of life turning pathogenic on us there is low
If we truly handle the ozone layer first.
It is already set in it's ways. We pretty much know what each type of life form in the food chain needs.
However natural selection still occurs on small scales and with the differing gravity on Mars and lesser magnetic field;
(I'm of the opinion that propping back up the atmosphere and the induced weathering will kick start a small magnetic field and that life will increase this) life on mars will be slightly different over time.
You know now that I "think about it," this new discovery of underground iron eating Archae could make it possible to set up small solar powered units that heat the ground locally with deposited underground archae colonies and every six months undrill their hollow heat filament filled anchors moving over a hundred feet or so and reanchoring and redepositing.
Hmmmmm
That might even be a precursor to a pfc machine.
Well there is no way for me to have evidence (literally) as terraforming has never been done before.
But I am basing it on what scientific studies and theories I've read, alternative studies/theories, my estimate of how much enthusiasm will increase and therefore "up" the effort put forth, and how much we will technologically make advances within that time period thereby increasing the effectiveness.
I'll explain.
First off I said:
"Not over thousands of years either but give or take 20 for a barely tolerable temperate, pressurized, plant supporting environment (dependent on confirmation of trapped co2 levels by odyssey)."
Earlier in that post I mis-stated the power needed for a nuclear pfc machine to start the runaway greenhouse effect however I was still essentially right as far as the time needed.
Here is an excerpt from Foggs'
"TERRAFORMING MARS: A REVIEW OF REASEARCH"
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~mfogg/paper1.htm
==================================================================
It is now thought likely that the Martian polar caps are composed principally of H2O ice with perhaps just a frosting of CO2 of an admixture in the form of CO2 hydrate. It is thus doubtful that the caps are a rich enough inventory of CO2 to satisfy model requirements. However, it is possible that a substantial amount of CO2 might occur adsorbed on mineral grains in the upper kilometre of the martian regolith. McKay (1982) suggested that a modest heating might serve to trigger a runaway release of CO2 from this source, in an analogous manner to previous suggestions concerning the polar caps. This early speculation has been further explored by computer modeling (McKay, Toon and Kasting, 1991; Zubrin and McKay, 1993). It was shown that if the regolith carbon dioxide is distributed evenly over Mars then the gas must be very loosely bound for any runaway to occur. For a polar regolith containing an equivalent of 1 bar CO2 the effect works better: an initial warming of the martian surface by 5 - 20 K (depending on model parameters) increases the atmospheric pressure to a few tens of millibars at which point a runaway becomes established resulting in a stable end state of ~ 800 mbar and ~ 250 K. A 2 bar reservoir would runaway to give a mean surface temperature of ~ 273 K and a 3 bar reservoir, > 280 K.
Lovelock and Allaby (1984) suggested that regolith degassing could be triggered by releasing CFC gases into the martian atmosphere to create an artificial greenhouse effect. Since these chemicals have, molecule for molecule, a greenhouse effect > 10,000 times that of CO2, residence times of decades to centuries, and are non-toxic, the idea at first sight looked promising. McKay et al. (1991) looked at this question in more detail, modeling a cocktail of CFC gases active in the infrared window region between 8 - 12 mm where CO2 and water vapour have little absorption. They found that a concentration of ~ 10 ppm of such an absorber would be capable of warming Mars by about +30 K, but that any temperature excursion in excess of this would be prevented by the increasing loss of heat from other spectral regions. However, they also noted that CFCs on Mars are far less stable and long lived than on the Earth since UV radiation between 200-300 nm, which breaks the C-Cl bond, is not shielded from the surface by an ozone layer. Residence times for typical CFC molecules are reduced from many years to just hours! Thus, a CFC greenhouse on Mars might work (manufacturing the absolute quantity of trace gases appears feasible), if only for the fact that these gases would require replenishment at an absurd rate. A solution to this problem might be to use perfluoro compounds instead as the C-F bond is much more robust. Perfluorocarbons are so inert they can survive conditions on Mars, but most of their relevant absorption bands, at least for compounds of three carbon atoms or more, appear to be unpublished. Whether it will be possible to use perfluorocarbons to greenhouse Mars remains an open question (Fogg, 1995a)
===============================================================================
And here is an excerpt on the power levels needed - from Zubrin and McKay's
" TECHNOLOGICAL REQUIREMENTS FOR TERRAFORMING MARS"
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~mfogg/zubrin.htm
===============================================================================
Producing Halocarbons on Mars
In Table 1 we show the amount of halocarbon gases (CFC's) needed in Mars' atmosphere to create a given temperature rise, and the power that would be needed on the Martian surface to produce the required CFC'c over a period of 20 years. If the gases have an atmospheric lifetime of 100 years, then approximately 1/5th the power levels shown in the table will be needed to maintain the CFC concentration after it has been built up. For purposes of comparison, a typical nuclear power plant used on Earth today has a power output of about 1000 MWe. and provides enough energy for a medium sized (Denver) American city. The industrial effort associated with such a power level would be substantial, producing about a trainload of refined material every day and requiring the support of a work crew of several thousand people on the Martian surface. A total project budget of several hundred billion dollars might well be required. Nevertheless, all things considered, such an operation is hardly likely to be beyond the capabilities of the mid 21st Century.
Table 1: Greenhousing Mars with CFCs
-------------------------------------
Heating CFC Pressure(mbs) CFC Production Power(MWe)
5 0.012 263 1315
10 0.04 878 4490
20 0.11 2414 12070
30 0.22 4829 24145
40 0.39 8587 42933
===============================================================
Now that's CFC's right?! So they're talking about CFC's and also saying that a lot of people would be needed for support of this 1315mwe power plant and according to this second excerpt that it would take 20 years to induce a 5 degree increase and start the runaway effect. But the first excerpt says 10ppm would be sufficient enough to give a 30k rise. But cfc's destroy the ozone and we need the ozone right so ...
Here is an excerpt from a study on pfc's
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/98/5/2154
===============================================================
Although the lifetimes in Table 3 look long, they imply that the greenhouse gases considered here would require replenishment at a rate of nearly 400 kilotons per year to offset photolysis. Because the lifetimes in Table 3 were modeled at 1 astronomical unit from the sun, it would be plausible to multiply those lifetimes by 2.3, reducing the annual requirement to 170 kilotons. In either case, the rate compares very favorably with the 3-teraton annual rate of CFC production mentioned in ref. 1, which was based on a recognition that CFCs would destroy any ozone layer.
Fluorine on Mars would have to be mined locally. For comparison, South African export of acid-grade fluorspar was 470 kilotons in 1980 but then receded somewhat because of weak commodity markets (20). It takes 2.2 tons of acid-grade fluorspar to produce a ton of HF, and the majority of the weight of the gases we are discussing is the fluorine weight. Even though the bulk composition of Mars may be richer in fluorine than that of Earth's (8), whether the element can be found there in sufficient concentrations is unknown.
And here is table 3
Table 3. Column amounts to raise grey opacity of a doubled terrestrial atmosphere to 3; lifetimes in present terrestrial atmosphere
Gas Suggested column per m2 Lifetime against photolysis, yr
CF3CF2CF3 1.1 × 1022 >1 × 108
CF3SCF2CF3 1.4 × 1022 8950
SF6 5.2 × 1021 3200*
SF5CF3 1.0 × 1022 4050
SF4(CF3)2 8.0 × 1021 3070
===============================================================
You see those lifetimes there. Wow. Multiply by 2.3. That was a study on maintaining an atmosphere that has already been raised by 70k.
Here is another study on pfcs basically stating that pfc's and SF6 are the best for terraforming and gives their abosrobtion bands.
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~mfogg/marsfront.html
So I am getting the idea here that a correct cocktail of sf6 and pfc's would require less power to produce and maintain a 5k (or possibly more) increase needed.
Some of this stuff is conflicting but overall you could say that if odyssey returns back the data that we have atleast an overall 700mb trapped co2 reserve and we stick a 1000mwe pfc/sf6 producing machine there for 20 years by the end of that time we'll have a barely tolerable, equatorially above freezing temperature of water planet. Right?!
Now I know we have to wait on more odyssey confirmation of trapped water in the poles and subsurface water - but if we do this and put a machine there the most likely place (even if it is a slow roving machine) to put it will be in an equatorial area. In which case locally the machine will have a greater effect.
The immediate hundred concentric miles surrounding the machine will be highly concentrated in pfc's right?
It would stand to reason that locally the defrosting effect will occur rapidly and so we will see sort of an example of what will occur as the gases mix in with the rest of the planet.
These studies don't include the effect that water will have as a greenhouse gas.
I'm sort of guesstimating that we will see immediately surrounding the machine for 30 concentric miles or so sufficient UV protection and probably a 5 to 10k temperature increase and more pressure and a little water vapor which would start to handle the oxide in the iron oxide regolith and would weather the olivine into other minerals neccesary for plants in the first 6 months such that we can start the black lichen colonies.
I doubt that scientist will not forsee this and not start the colonies and once started this will increase the effect (next year around) such that even if the machine is slow roving (say it moves 100 feet a day) and just drops of these lichen samples as it goes it would still be effective in lowering the albedo OVER TIME and establishing the colony.
As we go along spitting these out the effect will reinforcingly occur especially during summertime with the orbit closer to the sun the heating up will not recide as much each mars year.
Oh and I just saw an update on the discovery channel of data on the new "Archae" one celled organisms found living deep underground, in the toxic geyser waters of yellowstone, and in the blacksmokers deep in the ocean. This is the simple one celled organism that survives EXTREME TEMPERATURES AND DOESN'T NEED OXYGEN.
On this national geographic presentation they showed that the underground Archae adapted by breathing iron and having an extremely slow metabolism.
They stated that they put them in liquid nitrogen and they survived this extremely low temperature just fine.
NOW THIS EXCITING...... GET THIS.
THEY PUT THESE ARCHAE INTO A TEST TUBE OF RED IRON OXIDE.
AND SHOWED THE RESULT.
MAGNETITE!
MAGNETITE IS BLACK.
THERE IS THE MARS ALBEDO SOLUTION.
So just use that instead of or along with black lichen.
Secondly I said:
" Another 10 to artificially raise the temperature and pressure even further so that it is tolerable by more pfc's."
If you go read those references you can see why I said that. DEPENDENT ON CONFIRMATION THAT WE DO HAVE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 700MB AND 1-1/2 BARS OF CO2 reserve trapped globally in the regolith and the caps. It seems as though this newly discovered archae orgaism from what we just saw demonstrated on tv with it eating the iron out of the iron oxide would be releasing the oxygen and the reserve of oxygen in the mars regolith it would stand to reason is much higher than the trapped co2 in it.
So even if we have only 700mbs of carbon dioxide it seems to me that we will increasingly spread the archae organism and black lichen across the planet so that in this second phase - the atmosphere/temperature being more tolerable and the overall outlook and feasibility of the terraforming becoming a stronger reality - we will step up the efforts. Those efforts will greatly speed up the melting of underground water in the permasfrost since the albedo will be decreasing which will further increase the greenhouse effect.
Thirdly I said:
"Another 40 to adjust the atmsopheric gas levels by various genetic engineering and other artificial means to the point where it would be roughly close enough to earths atmosphere to breathe.
Now there I'm just estimating from what I have read by researchers thus far on how to use organisms to convert carbon rocks into nitrogen and what I feel they will be able to accomplish by genetic alteration.
And also I'm sort of estimating that by that time we will come up with a way to mine asteroids of which there are plenty of varying sizes and of which contain high amounts of nitrogen which could be simply shot at the planet as waste byproduct in waste metal containers.
If you want you can say that I just pulled a rabbit out of a hat but I didn't. I'm just keeping up to date with current progress and intentions in "over unity devices," advanced propulsion, nasa projects, mining (somewhat), patents, a little on bioengeering and cloning, and also because I think based on the IMO higly probable "mars is a former green tidally locked moon with destroyed planet debris spread on it's southern hemisphere" theory that there is more trapped nitrogen, water, hydrogen, and other life supporting elements in this planets crust that just need to be activated by decreasing the albedo and propping back up the now partly destroyed atmosphere.
If you have any specific questions in any area that you want me to give you online references for I will be happy to post them.
The urge to survive as a species (human) will overide any other "reasons" we have not to terraform mars.
It will be a land grab one way or another.
So we find hydrogen eating co2 breathing life in the permafrost.
Or fungi living in the highly salty permafrost.
Or we find there are areas so highly salted that frost bite doesn't hit till -50 farenheit and we have scattered water.
We will examine the life and look for more and the whole thing will be important for a while and carefully studied and then the urge to survive as a species will come back to the forefront.
There is no reason to not do a land grab.
There is no reason to not terraform mars.
You either contract or expand as a species there is no choice.
Eventually we will run out of room here.
If anyone goes and reads up on the effect and cost of making a nuclear pfc machine and getting it there and running you'll see that a dramatic effect will occur in a matter of years.
Although we still have to wait on more data to be gathered by odyssey and the additional missions you can bet on it that putting one of those pfc machines there or even making smaller versions ....say 5 or so scattered about the planet spewing out these pfc's will not only cause the runaway greenhouse effect raising it 40 or 50 degrees globally but you'll get all sorts of other things occuring.
There are differing estimates on the amount of regolith/cap trapped co2 that would be released because of this. I've seen estimates from 200 to 1000 millibars.
Think about it. Hydrology will start up and that will further increase the atmospheric pressure and lend itself to magnetic effects which will in turn lend itself to changing all that biologically toxic red dust layer (who gives a flying #### about the color red) into something survivable.
We might even get more nitrogen out of the mix.
It's worth it as a land grab to terraform. The lengthly "pain in the butt" things that will have to be handle will be sufficient nitrogen and oxygen.
A recent news item was that there was evidence of a lot more hydrogen than previously thought. And with all that oxide in the regolith we have a lot to work with as far as resources are concened with the exception of nitrogen.
Now if we can get some remote controlled capitalistic mining operation going on on one of those stupid moons we could have that operation shooting containers of nitrogen at the planet. That's the only thing I can think of to handle the lack of nitrogen quicker than would biological engineers.
The study I read on pfc's basically said that only a few parts per million would be sufficient to get the runaway going and if I am remembering correctly it was at the cost of one megawatt year for five years which is the equal to one nuclear power plant.
Now I also read somewhere else some student (whom I can't remember) went over the various pfc molecules possible and their suspected life spans and their uv blocking abilities.
And recommended a certain mix of which all could be produced by the processing of regolith on mars.
Once you get them going and keep it up it's effects will occur exponentially. You'll see.
It'll probobaly go something like no visible effect for the first 3 months and then - whoa... big effects. Rapidly receeding co2 deposits, clouds clouds clouds, pooling briny water, land slides, uncovered craters, uncovered unseen minerals, new trace amounts of other elements, maybe a little helium 3 (reactor fuel).
I've also read a lengthy theory on the source of the iron oxide, olivine and basaltic rocks as being externally deposited -
most of this being in the southern hemisphere.
If that's the case then getting hydrology started would I think shift this external layer around and in some Northern areas we will have a different crust show through. Now there's the place to look for native microbial life.
I think that the ultimate solution to the danger of asteroids is to mine them and use the waste product for our own needs.
I don't think that that will occur lieu of terraforming.
I think that we will find a way to mine them and will and it will be capatilistic and occur on it's own independent of governments and will be very profitable and I also think that breakthrough propulsion is on the near horizon and not in the far distant future.
I read somewhere that a 1 kilometer asteroid as just junk landfill dirt is worth 500 million.
This cold red planet next to us is ripe for the taking and the terraforming. It is close. It is doable. Not over thousand of years either but give or take 20 for a barely tolerable temperate, pressurized, plant supporting environment (dependent on confirmation of trapped co2 levels by odyssey). Another 10 to artificially raise the temperature and pressure even further so that it is tolerable by more pfc's.
Another 40 to adjust the atmsopheric gas levels by various genetic engineering and other artificial means to the point where it would be roughly close enough to earths atmosphere to breathe.
So that's a total of 70 years.
Another 30 for fine tuning of n and o to get it matched to earths so that it has enough play in it where it can't drastically change in short amounts of time.
Mars is smaller so you can't do the little mental short circuit in your head of equating it to "doing it here" whenever a terraforming idea is proposed.
Although it's still a huge task to undertake. It's smaller than here.
Of course we have to use leverage. The runaway greenhouse effect via pfc's is exactly that. It leverages a lot.
The only other thing I can think of in terms of leverage is genetically engineered black lichen to lower the albedo.
As far as arguing for the innate right of life to live without our interference and reapairing any damage we have done along these lines - namely the lower forms (animals and bacteria and such) - if you take a look back at all the thousands of species that have evolved and died here on earth it could be argued that through dna and cloning advancements we might someday be able to bring back to life some of these formerly existing earth species and that these might have just as much right to exist on the newly terraformed mars as the native mars bacterial life. Being that they are only bacterial and these created ones would be animals not competing for resources with the bacteria.
What a grand scientific experience that would be - to put a food chain there - especially one consisting partially of formerly extinct species.
Now that's a good peaceful constructive thing to do not a violent one.
Dodo bird, passenger pigeon, mammoth, that marsupial dog, the colecanth. Aren't there some extinct whales and birds and insects? Don't we still have frozen samples for these?
Pages: 1