New Mars Forums

And south korea joins the fry,
http://english.people.com.cn/200409/19/ … 57553.html

Decades ago we used large navy ships with huge crews (aircraft carriers) to recover human crewed space craft at sea. In wartime and duo to costs it would be hard to see this as a cost effective way to recover a ballistic reentry CEV.
However the navy does have a large fleet of civil service and contract crewed public vessels. They are manned by crews of 50 to 150 persons as compared to 3000 on a carrier. We could have a MSC special mission ship recover the CEV or save more money by diverting a MSC ship from its existing mission. The MSC fleet has Navy helicopters used to transport cargo and mail to ships at sea; these could double as a capsule and crew recovery bird. Money saved could be plowed into more frequent flight rates for the CEV.

A special missions ship could do CEV recovery work,
http://www.msc.navy.mil/PM2/]http://www … y.mil/PM2/
But look at these MSC ships that transport fuel and groceries and food to the navy ships at sea.
http://www.msc.navy.mil/PM5/]http://www … y.mil/PM5/
these ships have a helicopter deck that could handle a CEV capsule and land a returning crew! All with a ship of only 40 to 50 crew. The lucky ship and crew that hosted our astronauts would make a run for the nearest port and discharge the astronauts and then continue with its navy mission,crew return would cost the taxpayers next to nothing extra
http://www.msc.navy.mil/PM5/]military sealift command

this should get some funding for at least a  try out with a science probe
[http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications/re … wash01.pdf]http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications/re … wash01.pdf

but wait! is that stratifgraphy I see or an artifac from the rat drilling?

I was thinking a large solar electric for this mission but the solar panels would have yet more drag.of course the ion engine it self would need a boost into  orbit so......................................

$40 billion and more will be spent by DOE and the commercial nuclear power industry to try to make nuclear waste to "go away"
hahaha well some have suggested a solar disposel for this stuff.the sun is an object that requires a great deal of energy to get to.I have always thought that a solar system escape orbit would easer but what a waste. make this nuclear waste work for you?.recycle it into fuel but not for use on earth.the $40 billion that will be used at yaccu mountian could pay for thousands of EELV's.but why not dispose of this "waste in the form of RTG's and other nuclear power devices.science could come for the ride. settle on a design say cassine or a bit smaller like voyager and build a great many of them.
bid out the work in 20 spacecraft lots.Two orbiters each jupiter,  saturn.uranus and neptune would take up to half of this first production lot.
  $2 billion per year from the DOE budget and say $ 800 million a year added to the existing NASA planetary exploration budgett would allow for mass prodution of EELV and science instruments.this added to the air force and NASA purchases of EELV would bring down the cost by a order of magnatude.
   I have read somewhere that there is 40,00 tons of commercial waste and an equal amount of wepons grade stuff around the world how long would it take to work our way through this!?
and how many rtg's and or apace craft would this be?
the DOE now has about $20 billion in a rate payer paid fund for waste disposal.

years ago I was thinking of a honorable end to the shuttles  and posted it on google groups.
[http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&l … 6rnum%3D14]shuttle as space station

and
[http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&l … 6rnum%3D16]shuttle and space station
mass produced russian and us space station parts could be ion tugged to leo eqatorial/moon/L-1/mars orbits.
steve(infocat13)

space will be important inside a greenhouse you will not have alot of space.therefore growing many species in the same space will be important.the native americans new this.growing breans and squash that grow on vines that climbed on corn stalks was an ancient invention.nearby on vertical spaces would be vines that grow woody stalks such as kiwi or grape(wine anybody?) these wil need co2 to scrub ours and small mammals and birds small livestalk could be transported from earth to mars or there semen could be.rodents and small quaell and chickens are eaten by many cultures.This could be an ISS experiment what does make the journey well? goats if you have to have red meat and milk would be a bettter bet then cows as far as the transportation issues go.

here is a list of small livestock of possibal use.
[http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe … 2F337.html]http://search.netscape.com/ns....37.html
     Oooops almost forgot bring cabbage, just ask the germans chinese and koreans this can be used in stir frie but also you can ferment all those ducks and geese and maybe the rats and other rodents you have brought!

I would like to add the url for the nasa slep conference

[http://www.slepsummit.com/]http://www.slepsummit.com/

look at the "strategy" url page 18 the shuttle folks are shuttle-C dreaming as well.

[http://www.slepsummit.com/IIStrategy.pdf]http://www.slepsummit.com/IIStrategy.pdf

early shuttle-C studies showed that this would be an expensive proposition you would be keeping the shuttle infrastruture and work force BUT they assumed the shuttle it self would be flying as well.and what off the ssme?can we do the atlas and delta heavy lift and pay for cev and shuttle c at the same time after the shuttle is retired?
of cousre these early shuttle -C studies included in there infrastruture the vehicle assembly buildings ect these will need refurbishment you would think even without the shuttle-C ?

If the nasa admin folks intend on using exsisting atlas or delta V then on orbit assembly will be required but wait? the Zubrin idea of keeping cargo seperate from crew transport could be used for luner missions.I.E preposition cargo landers, space station conponents in L-1 or whatever the final plan ends up being.

the CEV would use atlas or delta V to get crew to the moon/L-1 .

     the landers,L-1 space station/moon orbiting station would be launched by shuttle-C or yet more atlas and delta V.
mars will require more then this,nuclear and shuttle-Z ect.

on orbit assembly from ISS is a long term bad idea we could use ISS at first but if you must have human back up to on orbit assembly of the atlas or delta V then an human tended equtorial station would be a better idea.like the eelv the station parts have all ready had there developement costs paid for.ISS station parts could used as lunar orbiters/L-1/lunar ground station housing. with the exception of the cev all of these things could be transported with shuttle-c and a ion tug.ION tug could also manuver the HST to an orbit above the ISS.