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#1 Re: Not So Free Chat » Saddam's trial - Dangerous theater » 2004-07-02 11:45:38

Now, I'mm sure most of you know, I'm a bit of a peacenik.  I don't care for capital punishment.

But...  Is it not in Invasion, Occupation and Reconstruction 101 to kill the old king and his children?

Has not history shown this to be the case?

I do not condone the Iraq invasion, I do not care to occupy the country, and I am not happy how we have created a hot spot of terrorism on top of and right next to a vital and rare commodity essential to our immediate survival...

But...

We are where we are, occuping power.  If we wish to insure that he or those sympathetic to him do not regain their authority,  we should have killed Saddam.  We still should.

#2 Re: Not So Free Chat » Ralph Nader - ...(love him or hate him?) » 2004-07-01 21:15:51

Excuse me, but who is this Nader guy? Is he the leader of the American Greens?

After reading the Buchanan interview Alt to War provided, he strikes me as perfectly sound in his views and judgement.
In fact, I'm quite sympathetic to Buchanan too, but I'm not sure where he stands in relation to the Christian right/universalist Bible thumpers faction, which I don't respect at all. Could be I just don't agree about his metaphysics, but I don't know.

So what is all this ranting about Nader about? Why don't you vote for him instead, or someone like Buchanan if you dislike the Bush/Kerry faction? (They have roughly the same employers it seems to me.)

Why not vote for him?  because the US presidential election system has fallen to pieces.

#3 Re: Not So Free Chat » Ralph Nader - ...(love him or hate him?) » 2004-06-30 10:22:54

after losing the nomination, Ralphie trashes the green party?!?!

Ok, the ####### is a megalomaniac.

*Alt, I wish you would have included a link or source.  smile

Guess I'll check Green Party web site or whatever; I haven't seen a news headline yet pertaining to your post. 

--Cindy  smile

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cct … 030161.htm


A day after not getting the Green Party's endorsement for president, Ralph Nader brushed off the rejection as an inconvenience, described the party as "strange," called the party's national nominating convention "a cabal," and predicted the party would be the big loser.

"The benefit was really for the Green Party," Nader said Sunday of what an endorsement of him would have meant. "I don't want to exaggerate it, so I'll just say massively more."

Endorsing him, Nader said, would have meant higher visibility and better fund-raising opportunities for the party.

And because of his vice-presidential running mate, Walnut Creek's Peter Miguel Camejo, it had the potential to attract Latino voters.

Instead, by nominating Texas attorney David Cobb, Nader said, the party that made him its candidate in 1996 and 2000 will "shrink in its dimension" and "has jettisoned (itself) out of any influence on the Democratic party."

#4 Re: Not So Free Chat » Ralph Nader - ...(love him or hate him?) » 2004-06-30 05:21:38

after losing the nomination, Ralphie trashes the green party?!?!

Ok, the ####### is a megalomaniac.

#6 Re: Not So Free Chat » Ralph Nader - ...(love him or hate him?) » 2004-06-25 13:07:07

But shouldn't the congress control the president’s government? I read once that if you have a democratic president with a majority republican congress you will have a really hard time.

that "really hard time" was intentional and is essential to our system.

#7 Re: Not So Free Chat » Ralph Nader - ...(love him or hate him?) » 2004-06-25 13:02:56

Want to bet the Republicans (including the Bush family of course) are behind this?

It is most certainly the repulicans - its a form of tactical voting. They arent proposing voting for him, just to get enough signatures to get him on the ballot. They quite correctly realise that he will eat up a small percentage of kerry voters but is highly unlikely to woo any Bush voters.

In the 1997 UK elections Labour encouraged its voters to vote Lib Dem in those seats where it was a close race between Conservative and Lib Dem and Labour were a distant 3rd and it helped them secure their landslide victory.

On another note, i think what the US really needs is a third major party - it would go a long way to reducing a lot of the political polarisation which makes getting things done so hard sometimes.

Except if you have a 3rd party that can pull an average of 33% of the votes, The House will always pick the president.

#8 Re: Not So Free Chat » Ralph Nader - ...(love him or hate him?) » 2004-06-25 12:54:25

*Notice how it's always Nader against Kerry.

::EDIT::  Whoa.  Where did that post of Alt2War's go just now, which was a photocopy-looking thing about an Oregon petition?  That's what I based this entire post on.  sad  It was all "get votes away from Kerry, endorse Nader"  ::end edit::

Want to bet the Republicans (including the Bush family of course) are behind this? 

Can't prove it of course, but I wouldn't be the least surprised if Ralph's pockets are being abundantly lined with green alright ($$$) -- straight from the Repub coffers.

I'm not big on conspiracy theories, but this entire situation...

--Cindy

Al Sharpton got some cash from Republicans.  Was all over the Village Voice, and other places.

#10 Re: Not So Free Chat » Ralph Nader - ...(love him or hate him?) » 2004-06-24 18:18:12

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtm … 59]Digital "Brownshirts"?

Go! Al, Go!

smile

In an hour-long address punctuated by polite laughter and applause, Gore also accused the Bush administration of working closely "with a network of 'rapid response' digital Brown Shirts who work to pressure reporters and their editors for 'undermining support for our troops."'

Find them here:
http://www.freerepublic.com]http://www.freerepublic.com

#11 Re: Not So Free Chat » Why should libertarians go to Mars - When they can have New Hampshire » 2004-06-24 05:36:53

Why would the Libertarians want Mars?
Only the Red Party(Akin to Earths Green) party and the Socialist want Mars :b.

nothing is more liberating than vast wide open spaces with few neighbors and an irrelevant government.

#12 Re: Not So Free Chat » Ralph Nader - ...(love him or hate him?) » 2004-06-24 05:28:21

Remove the creationists and the "Rapturists" from the voting pool and Bush loses really BIG. Really really BIG.

Just as a guess, how many "young Earth creationists" will vote for Bush, or for Kerry?

Remove african americans from the D side and republicans win every time.  Silly thing to say, really.

The difference is that Evangelicals have real reasons to vote for Bush.

According to the fronline video above, bush learned during his father's campaign that you can win the election essentially on evangelicals alone.

In a nation where less than 50% vote, any signifigant block of voters that can be counted upon to vote near 100% and are easily swayed and led by their leaders, and are spread across several relatively low population states can make a huge impact.

#13 Re: Not So Free Chat » Ralph Nader - ...(love him or hate him?) » 2004-06-24 05:19:57

While the snake-handling variety tend not to vote much, they're not representative, and Bush -- being an evangelical christian himself -- enjoys a wildly disproportionate share of  support among evangelical congregations.  At this point, Bush could walk away with 20% of the vote just by virtue of being a Southern Baptist (or whatever).

*I'd be willing to lay a good sum of money on Bush NOT being anything but barely nominally religious and instead being a good Machiavellian who took Niccolo's advice to heart about putting on the appearance of virtue and piety, airs of religious devotion, etc., in order to draw more support. 

Can't prove it, but I'd lay money on it if I could.

He's probably got "The Prince" so memorized he could recite it backwards while standing on his head and drunker than a skunk.  tongue

--Cindy

you will love this, if you have not seen it yet.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline … ows/jesus/

#14 Re: Not So Free Chat » Why should libertarians go to Mars - When they can have New Hampshire » 2004-06-23 14:22:51

Mars would make a libertarian paradise, imho.

My Utopia fantasy of Mars is a libertarian one.

#15 Re: Not So Free Chat » Ralph Nader - ...(love him or hate him?) » 2004-06-23 14:20:26

Well...a decision not to vote at all (I'm tempted!) is still a decision.

That's the best decision you could make.  :laugh:

Someone always loses in an election, and someone always win. We know the rules of the game, and we can play it how ever we want. Strategic, from the heart, or not at all- it's our choice. Ain't it grand?  big_smile

Would you rally as hard if there was an alternative to Bush that might steal votes from him? I doubt it.

I would prefer a "none of the above" choice, with a minimum percentage to invalidate the electoral college votes for the entire state. Then we could really have our voice heard- really what is being said in this thread.

Of course that will probably lead to the Supreme Court choosing more Presidents, but whatever.  tongue

I believe in that case the House chooses the Prez.

#16 Re: Not So Free Chat » Ralph Nader - ...(love him or hate him?) » 2004-06-23 14:18:24

I've listened to him, but Buchanan's just too extreme.  big_smile  Oh, right. Nader. Well, same comment.

I find myself finding some wisdom in Buchanan's words in the last year.  What's happening to me.

They have to, their base just doesn't have the numbers to win national elections. Democrats win largely on 'moderate' voters they can attract on specific issues.

I disagree.  The right is more organized, especially the fundimental christians.

In the D parties rush to the center, it has let it's base's mechanism to atrophy while the right continues to strengthen it.  Believe me I've seen the inside of a lot of the D party, and it aint preatty.

The D party does not fight for it's base in legislation, and rolls over when the R passes laws increasing it's own influence.

Take, for example, the elimination of union rights for a large portion of federal employees, compaired to the infusing of federal funding in christian social serves.

We don't need to kill a billion Muslims, but begging our 'allies' for forgiveness is not helpful, except to our enemies. No apologies, the French will get over it.

I believe this has been hashed out before.  For most of the world, sending bush back to texas in a landslide will be more than enough of an apology.

The bush administration has no ability to win a war of Ideals in the middle east.  There are no diplomatic paths to take.  Our words have no weight.

Survival for our nation is now indeed on the line with a frightenly strong showing of Al Quida in Saudi Arabia.  Under a bush regime our only option is a war of attrition, starting with the bombing of Al Jizera HQ, and ending with new flags over Mecca.

I want off this ride.

#17 Re: Not So Free Chat » Ralph Nader - ...(love him or hate him?) » 2004-06-23 13:49:31

and the Kerry people are really just anti-Bush people, so they're locked in regardless. Put one of those old hecklers from the Muppet Show up as the nominee and you'll get votes.

:laugh:  :laugh:

That was good!

"It's time to put on makeup, it's time to light the lights --"

Alt2War:  Nader as an egoist is a meme that seemes overplayed and somewhat baseless.  It takes a certian amount of ego to place yourself as a candidate for US President.

*Yes.  But he's ONLY in it to grandstand, IMO.  And to be a troublemaker.  I mean THIS TIME -- 2004 election.  I thought he had sincere motives in 2000.  Not this time.

I'll read the article you linked to; thanks.

--Cindy

P.S.:  Nurse Janice for President.

I, on the other hand, am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe him to be standing on principle when in actuality being more practical would get him closer to his goals.

An egoist wants to be loved, admired, and applauded.  Nader is not getting much warm fuzzies.

Our distaste and anger towards nader is due to his threat to our stratigic voting.  This highlights much of the problems inherent in our presidential election system. I only wish the D party figured that out from last time, and that Nader would wait 4 years to make his point again.

But to look at the problem from his point of view, if now is not the right time to make his statement, and things are getting worse rapidly, how are we to be sure the situation will be any more receptive in the future?  I could be an even more dire situation.


I'm not to quick to judge polititians who claim to be based on sound principle, and stick to that principle though a hostile environment.

#18 Re: Not So Free Chat » Ralph Nader - ...(love him or hate him?) » 2004-06-23 13:23:07

1: Nader as an egoist is a meme that seemes overplayed and somewhat baseless.  It takes a certian amount of ego to place yourself as a candidate for US President.  He certianly has that.  In my experience, though, those that repeat the "Nader is a magolomaniac" are usually trying to marginalize him not on his platform or ideas.

2: Nader makes really good points.  Take the time to read what he says.  I for one have a very hard time finding anything that I don't agree with him on in principle, only sometimes on practicality.

Here's an interview of Nader by Pat Buchanan.  At least listen to him.

http://www.amconmag.com/2004_06_21/cove … cover.html

3:  Our presidential election system is antiquated and flawed.  A winner takes all voting system is impractcal in an election with any more than 2 candidates.  Modern democracies embrace instant run-offs.  Instant run-offs tend to favor "big tent" candidates without punishing votes who vote their hearts.

4: The Democratic Party takes advantage of the flaw in our presidential election system by forcing those left of center to vote stratigicly.  (and the right has done the same).  The Democratic party has been pandering to corporate doners, and giving little to no attention it's party base.  In the chase for the swing voter, the Democratic party has disenfranchised the left, minorities, labor movements, environmentalists, and those who advocate socialization of healthcare.

5: Dispite all this, I will vote for Kerry. Or, if it seemed like he had a better chance, i would vote for CC, or a monkey in a bellhop suit, or a ham sandwhich.  Whichever will get bush out.

I dont care for Kerry, but I will hold my nose and pull the D Lever.  The only way we can pull ourselves out of the mess were in, is either booting bush out and aplologizing profusely to the whole goddamn world in an effort to get back some sort of credibility, or killing a large enough percentage of muslim arabs until they fall into submission.  I prefer the first.

With bush we have no hope of winning the "Hearts and Minds" war.  There is a small chance Kerry could help us recover, but I dont have my hopes up.



I have promised myself that this year will be my last year of stratigic voting.  I am not looking for a candidate to pander to my every wish, but one that at least considers my point of view seriously before making decisions.  I simply desire the democratic party put me under their tent.

#19 Re: Human missions » Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia??? » 2004-06-22 18:52:19

Neil Stephenson's Cryptonomicon is required reading for yall who have not read it.

Illegal does not always mean immoral.

Many things could be done with a data haven, including banking, revolutionary or subversive information storage, communication between oppressed people and those that wish to help them.  Historical documents that might be in jeopardy of being erased from history by big brother governments.

#22 Re: Human missions » Using illegal goods to make mars profitable - The Martian Mafia??? » 2004-06-19 09:44:13

Hmmm...

Moral stuff aside, i think it will be all but impossible to get through "customs"...  Unauthorized launch from either Earth or Mars will be easy to see/track on radar etc, and surely in the near future just *any* launch will be monitored very carefully (NORAD etc...)

So you'd either have to convince a spacefaring nation to smuggle your contraband secretly, using their 'flag' or..

(hmmm... or what? I dunno...)

Smuggling depends on the fact that you can "hide" your stuff in the immense flow of world (legal) traffic, or you can get through a border unnoticed.

Two things that will not be the case, IMO.

Although i could see secret 'scientific' stuff getting smuggled: stem-cell technology, or GM stuff, etc...

Customs cannot check stuff falling down from outside the atmosphere.

With a 14 minute wait between transactions, Pr0n and Banking dont seem too convenient.

#23 Re: Not So Free Chat » Mars Colony Simulation - Browser based game » 2004-06-18 19:45:10

I'm taking up a personal project, I've been mulling over it for a little while.

The ideas is this:

A Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game
Themed on the colonization, exploration, and economic exploitation of Mars in the 21 Century.

It will be a hybrid between real-time and turn based. It will be played on the internet browser.

The game will for the most part be an economic game first, and a political one second.

The players will have specializations, and people will need to rely on eachothers specializations to meet their goals.  Players can be jack of all trades if they wish, but then they will be masters of none.

The story arc will move as follows:

UN sanctions private corporations to set up shop and claim plots of land on mars.  Players come in with a debt or obligation to their sponsors.  The economy will be based on shipping raw or refined materials back to earth in return for highly manufactured goods.

after 6-9 months of gameplay and community building, news begins of a destablizing earth.  The shipping lanes between Mars and Earth are cut off.

Items once worth more than gold are now mass waiste, as there is much more amassed than martians can use.  The economy is turned upside down and the players are faced with the challenge of becoming self sufficient.

The following stages in the story arch deal with earth coming back online, hostile colonies, terraforming, and colonization of other planets.

Anyhow, I just now have started building some of the database work, and nothing is set in stone.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

#24 Re: Not So Free Chat » Gasoline/Petrol Prices » 2004-06-08 11:42:18

It currently takes more energy to create ethonol and infuse it into gasoline than the amount of energy ethonol release when combusted.

I don't know where you're pulling that from. Europe is already subsidizing large portions of their gasoline reserves with biofuels, and it's not costing Europe (except in countries where the fuels are tax exempt, but that is done to further adoptation, not because it's unprofitable or unuseable).

http://www.meadbiofuel.com/MEADDOWNLOAD … ummary.PDF

Political issues and government subsadies make ethenol economical.

In terms of pure calories spent vs pure calories gained, ethonol is a very much a losing situation.

#25 Re: Not So Free Chat » Gasoline/Petrol Prices » 2004-06-07 17:44:56

just to put into perspective:

The average 1sq meter solar cell produces 19 watts

the average barrel of oil can produce 1,700  kilowatts

It would take 149,122 square meter solar panels to replace 1 barrell of oil.

It is expected that the US will increase it's oil demand in the next year by 2 Million Barrels a day.



So if you wanted to just curb the increase of demand on oil by using solar power, you would need to create 44 million acres of solar panels, which happens to be over half the size of Arizona.


Those who say that peak oil is no problem because of the ready abundance of alternative sources of energy fail to grasp the scale at which we consume energy, and the massive undertaking it would take to replace even a small portion of our oil consuption.

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