New Mars Forums

"When colonizing Mars we would bring nuclear reactors to generate our electrical power"

Musk and Space X have explicitly committed to PV power for the Mars settlement. It's part of Musk "brand image", so I can't really seeing him committing to nuclear power reactors. Not to say that nuclear power wouldn't be theoretically useful in terraformation.  But I think the job of heating up Mars can be done more efficiently by solar power satellites reflecting insolation on to the Mars surface and through production of greenhouse gases.

One thing I wonder about is whether it would make sense to dig trenches on Mars, thus exposing more of the surface area to such reflected insolation?  Would that increase outgassing? I've no idea.

NUclear rediators would have a working fluid in them and would be designed to disapate that heat with a constant rate for its size and flow rate of the fuild with in it. That said we would bury the radiator and when it was turned on the effect of water and co2 would happen but its only going to last just so long until its gone dry of these. At that time its just a ground temperature warmer with local air being warmed.

One of the issues is keeping the releasal of water and gasses going. I would suggest inside a chamber the radiator attached to a plate where mars regolith soil is transported to where it is warmed, outgassing happens and then is moved to the next stage of processing. All outgassing is captured for later releasal and or use in other insitu uses. Reload and keep the process going.

Regolith soil dried can then be spun to seperate into materials of higher concentration of elements using magnetics and mass of materials plus spin speed. The collection of these can later be refined for processing. The dirt component of this can be used in a greenhouse or in the construction of buildings.

RobertDyck did a thread similar to this here. As much as I'm all for "Mars for everyone" I do recognize that most people on Mars will in practice be highly educated, especially in earlier years.

EDIT: My own thoughts on a constitution are here.

1.  I agree that Space X cannot do everything by themselves. Most obviously they need NASA's coms system to enable communications with Mars. For Mission One essentially the requirements are for a hab, for life support, for water extraction, and for propellant production. The ability to grow some salad vegetables would also be nice. Off Earth life support is pretty much an established technology now. Water extraction is not I feel that difficult a task. Extraction from the atmosphere might in fact be the easiest method. Propellant production is an established technology - it just has to be space-proofed.  It's challenging but not hugely so.  Space X has the resources to commission designs and development.

2.  I don't agree with you that "finding 10 tot 25 million to start over on Mars won't be difficult". You are essentially looking for people who are:

*Above average intelligence.
*Have STEM qualifications at post grad level.
*Are extremely fit.
*Have no major physical health problems or disabilities.
*Be psychologically very well balanced.

Only about 2% of Americans have doctoral degrees.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc … ver-before

That might be the pool you are fishing in. 2% of 300 million is 6 million.  But of those I am guessing probably no more than half are in STEM (and that's probably being kind). So maybe 3 million STEM post grads at most.  But probably half of those will be the wrong age, ofter 50 or retired and/or out of touch with their subjects. So, you are down to 1.5 million. 

Of those I would suspect that 80% will fail one or more of  the fitness, health or psychological tests.

You're down to 300,000. 

We can rule out anyone with children for the first few decades.

Let's say only 30% do not have children they live with or don't mind being split from their children. 

Your pool is now down to 90,000. How many of those live with a significant other? Perhaps 80% I would suggest. And how many of those would be prepared to sacrifice that relationship to go to Mars? I'd say only 5% of the 80%. So your pool is now 24% of 90,000 ie 21,600.

But of course just because you have a pool of 21,600 doesn't mean they all want to go to Mars. They still have to have (a) a pull to Mars (adventurous spirit, scientific inquiry etc ) (b) a push to Mars (maybe feeling they have not being accorded sufficient status on Earth or their qualities here are undervalued) (c) be prepared to kiss goodbye to their friends and extended family probably for many years if not forever (d) be prepared to live in a fairly restricted world breathing artificial air, no rain on their face, no ability to just book a holiday and head off somewhere nice, to relax on a beach or whatever and (e) an acceptance that they must forego their recreational habits such as drink, drugs, golf, swimming in their own pool or the sea.

You may disagree but I think you would be down to about 10% of that 21,600.  You are probably talking about 2000 or so people with the right stuff who would be prepared to countenance becoming permanent colonists on Mars.

I think you would do a lot better with people prepared to take 3-5 years out of their normal lives to become temporary settlers who have the "right stuff".  There the pool could be in the 100s of thousands. In fact that's how I see things working - Mars settlement would for the first few decades be a permanent settlement of temporary settlers - somewhere between an Antarctic Base and a remote mining town on Earth.

3. I think orbital assembly and a dedicated LEO-LMO transporter could be done now - it's just more development and research required, time in other words.  But I am not sure that would save you a huge number of launches... You still need fuel to get the transporter from A to B don't you and you have a problem now at the Mars end where you also need a "ferry" service...? But yes, other technologies will be developed and eventually transfer will become much easier.

4. You make some fair points there. If a putative Mars government could gain recognition from a country like say Costa Rica. Where they could base themselves, they could be recognized as a corporation operating under Costa Rica's jurisdiction (just as sovereign nations have sovereign wealth funds on Earth). This would allow them to operate under the Outer Space Treaty (OST). As you say, people will eventually see that Mars has huge economic potential. But a major stumbling block with your plan is that as things currently stand you can't legally alienate land on Mars (ie claim ownership) whether you are government or a company. I think in the end unless you revise the OST, it is really a question of a Mars community declaring a natural right to self -government. It wouldn't be the first time in human history people had claimed that in the face of treaties denying them the right.

As of 3 August 2018, 137 of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states and two non-member states have recognized it. Furthermore, Palestine has been a non-member observer state of the UN since November 2012.