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Adrian, I think this will be the last war post.  There is nothing left to debate anymore:

FOX is now reporting that US troops have seized a 100-acre chemical weapons facility.  It was disguised by the Iraqis to look from the outside like the surrounding desert and impossible to photograph from the air.

Resolution 1441-  Iraq must disarm immediately or face severe consequences.  They didn't disarm, the US claimed they had WMDs, and the rest of the world said "poppycock".

The US and Britain have proven once and for all that force is the most persuasive form of diplomacy.  Russia, France, China, Germany- the list goes on- claimed that inspections were working, and obviously Dr. Blix did not do his job.

Case closed.  The US and Britain were and are 100% correct in declaring war.  Facts cannot be argued with.  They are clearly in material breech of UN Resolutions and inspections, the peaceful route, have not worked.

I feel no guilt whatsoever about this war, and everyone who claimed this was an oil war should write a letter of apology to the President immediately.

Thank you for keeping the forum open this long, Adrian.

Earthfirst, I checked out "antipeace".  Are you still doing it?

Secondly, Echus's nation doesn't have a national army to speak of, so it's not of importance.

Third, the US has a substantial enlistment from a voluntary force, so I see no reason to draft the unwilling.

Fourth, Dickbill, aren't you an older Frenchman?

Sure, if my nation needs me to serve in the armed forces when I turn 18, so be it.  But if they would rather I go to college and then help them build the missiles, tanks, and airplanes that keep those troops alive, I'd be glad to do that too.  The guys at Lockheede-Martin had as much to with fighting this war as the 18-year-old Marine fighting in Basrah right now.

War isn't a game, I made a legitimate bet with a collegue (if you could call Alt that) about the start of this war.  We weren't taking bets about number of casualties, or Iraqi deaths, or downed aircraft, just when the war would start.

Shut up.

You know, this is a Mars site, but it is filled with Mars enthusiasts.  If you try to debate politics on a politics site, you end up arguing with people who are of many different affiliations (which is probably a good thing).

The thing I like about the NewMars forum is that it's a big room full of people who care about one thing: Mars.  You can still talk about Beck's new CD at a StarTrek convention, right?  You just get a different spin than if you were at a Beck FanClub convention, or an engineering conference, or the water cooler at work.

Yes, the focus should be talking about Mars, but let's not restrict ourselves to just that realm.

We've all heard what the older members think about Iraq in the Free Chat forum, but what do the youth of America (and the world) think about this issue?

Sure.  History has shown that communism has always supassed the might of capitalist societies.

All of the countries you named have nuclear weapons.  When was the last time any of those countries had to fight in a country they were not immediately next to?

The US has its Germany base because #1, we won WWII and had a great presence in Germany during its reconstruction and #2, because it is (was) a great logistic center for our operations in protecting Europe during the cold war, and in providing a stop for normal units operating in the farther eastern hemisphere.  The same with our naval bases in Japan and the Philipines, and our base in Spain.

And all of the countries above are not isolationist.  Russia invaded Afghanistan, China and Taiwan and Tibet, England helped us in the Gulf War, and France is the nerdy kid with the overprotective mom that never lets them go play baseball with the neighborhood kids.

And I don't know if you've noticed, but the United States has reached an unsurpassed level in the all-time ranking of empires.  We are unsurpassed economically, politically, militarily, scientifically, and culturally.  The whole world is going American... Jakarta has a McDonalds, and George of the Jungle is dubbed in Thai.  Case closed.

And no nation can jeopardize our position by attacking us.  We have over 7000 nuclear warheads (a full 1000 more than Russia, 6700 more than France, 6980 more than China, and 7000 more than Germany), and we can annhilate most countries, no matter their location.

Americans don't watch Indian or German or French movies; we watch Hollywood movies.  It's the other countries that watch ours.  It's funny, but America is the one thing that most nations have in common.

Ever since the Soviet Union collapsed, we have been unopposed.  We played games with Russia in Korea and Vietnam, and thank God we neither of us had the guts to play out our game in the heart of Europe.  What have we done with our monopoly on the world?  We've bailed out Kuwait and Yugoslavia, and remained a might base for the rest of the world to cling to.

I said to slow immigration, not end it all together.  It really cheeses me off when students come to the US for an education and then turn around and leave.

Don't get too comfortable, Pagan.  The most likely draft age would be 18-25 

I just went to an anti-war protest near my grandma's house in New Mexico.  I decided it was a good time to write a story for the school newspaper.

Cal: Do you think Iraq has made an honest effort to disarm?

Woman: No.  I think he has weapons, but that's not the issue.

Cal: On November 8, the Security Council passed a resolution that if Iraq did not declare its weapons and disarm WMD's, then there would be 'severe consequences'.  Now that Dr. Blix's report shows that Iraq did not claim all of its weapons, and made efforts to conceal weapons, is it not the Security Council's, including France, Russia, and China, duty to enforce the resolution and impose 'severe consequences'.

Woman: Absolutely.  But war isn't the answer

Cal: What kind of consequences would you like to see imposed, then?  Economic sanctions... what is best?

Woman: Economic sanctions hurt women and children.  War is not the answer.

Cal: Well what should we use as a consequence in Iraq?

Woman:  Well, I'm not a diplomat...

I also spoke with a French woman who said that if Iraq must disarm, then the US should disarm, too.  I mentioned that nuclear weapons in the hands of superpowers prevented war in the last half-century, but she said it's still irresponsible.

MY POINT:

Iraq didn't disclose weapons.  The Security Council said that if Iraq didn't disarm and disclose all of its weapons, then there would be consequences.  He didn't disarm, and didn't disclose his weapons.  France, Russia, and China need to impose those consequences NOW if the UN's resolutions are to mean anything in the future.  What message does it send to other countries if the UN only enforces the resolutions it wants to?

*If we don't disarm Iraq and North Korea, #1 is my sure bet.

*If we disarm both and move onto Syria, Iran, and Libya, #3 is my sure bet.

*If we spend years and years tied up in battle with the UN over disarmament, then #1 is my sure bet.

My biggest fear is that terrorists detonate a nuclear bomb or biological weapon in New York Harbor, in downtown Los Angeles, on the Potomac in Washington, or near any number of landmarks in San Francisco, Chicago, Seattle, Boston, Atlanta, Houston, **Denver**, etc.

I think it's even funnier that we gave France and Britain their nuclear technology, and the Russians stole most of theirs from us!

France, Russia, and China are a******s.  We have provided clear evidence that Iraq has not disarmed, and yet they sit there with their vetos and oppose us still.  Just because the nations still oppose our action doesn't mean Iraq hasn't really disarmed.

I have two jokes:

Why doesn't EuroDisney in Paris use fireworks during the grand finale at the end of the day?

*The French keep surrendering!

Why are the streets of Paris lined with trees?

*So the Germans can march in the shade!

Maybe I just needed to blow off steam, but %@&# France!  It's not like they've ever provided us support before (they didn't even let us use their airspace in Desert Storm), and Russia and China haven't exactly been taking leading roles in keeping nations disarmed (oh, that's right.  Those dirty Ruskies are locked into oil with Iraq, and that's where Iraq probably got their weapons material from.  Oh, and France sold military intelligence pictures to Iraq a while ago.  Just who was fighting a politically-motivated war again?).

I am going to visit the Get the US Out of the UN website tonight and write my congressmen.  I'm so tired of those bastards being stubborn, especially since we put them where they are... if it weren't for Americans, the Parisans would be speaking German right now.

Before I go, NATO is pissing me off, too.  I can't believe those traitors won't protect Turkey.  Hell, it's not like Europe even has to do anything... the US has offered to protect Turkey through the whole engagement in Iraq.  What's the damn treaty for anyway if Europe won't even let a nation in another hemisphere protect it's members?!