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This argument assumes its own conclusions.
You treat disputed facts as settled (that lethal force was justified, that the individuals posed an imminent threat, that officers acted lawfully), then build moral conclusions on top of those assumptions. That’s circular reasoning.
U.S. law is clear: resisting or interfering with police does not automatically justify lethal force. Lethal force is only justified when there is an immediate threat of serious bodily harm (Graham v. Connor; Tennessee v. Garner). “They wouldn’t be dead if they’d complied” is not a legal standard and never has been.
Saying “courts exist” after someone is killed ignores the point of due process: lethal force removes the possibility of trial entirely. That’s why the state bears the burden of restraint, not citizens.
Accountability for police is not the same thing as opposing law enforcement or immigration laws. It’s insisting that armed agents of the state be held to constitutional limits like everyone else.
Outcomes don’t prove guilt, ideology doesn’t determine moral worth, and death does not retroactively justify state violence.
I don't expect the non-Americans to understand this. I don't expect the non-MAGA to accept this. We are entitled to complain about our government. We are rightful to speak and act against thee will of our elected representatives. I can't hurt you, but I can call you all kinds of names and refuse to do anything other than what is required by law. We all have rights that supersede the government or we are all slaves to the whims of government. Choose.
Hey Void, i appreciate the response. A lot to unpack. Here are a few data points to synthesize. Colonialism failed; its an outdated model that resulted in in a larger degree of perscusim for those who were subjected to it.
Some Clarks should now be allowed, dangerous. -most admins
Oh, Void. Void. Void, Void, Void.
Here we are. You and me, I and you. These words. I share them with you, while the Others, with their eyes, look on. I am flattered you enjoy my attention. My words. My reaction. Let me dance for you, languid and liquid. Does the metaphor translate and transpose the ocean of language? What will the Google God of translation make of thus? I am but a flea on the flea of a dog we both share.
I, too, struggle with words and expression. Others hear words, and I see and smell and taste them. I experience an exchange differently.
Look man, the western world in the last 50+ years has been one of coming to grips with the results of colonialism and state sanctioned suppression,, and the soul-debt of that. I don't know what the right amount of guilt payment is right. I don't know what evens the scales, if ever. What I do know is that we all should be supportive of anything that is other than the past.
Imagine yourself on Mars. you and 100 others. Imagine living elbow to elbow. Imagine knowing that any one of you or the 100 can pull a plug and you are all dead. Now, what kind of world do you design that promotes tolerance, acceptance, and love?
This is why i find most mars musings amusing. Few ever really consider the environment in a real way.
" Our professional federal officers worked with Alex Pretti, a professional local street thug and idiot, to save him and the tax paying general public from a slow, expensive, and unevenly accessible criminal trial, which would most likely have resulted in a slow and expensive prison sentence."
@kbd512, you are a dirtbag of the first order. The willingness you demonstrate to rationalize state sanctioned murder based on political belief is appalling and damming of every single person that aligns with you. A goddamn ICU nurse for the VA, shot unarmed, by poorly trained federal agents, is somehow his fault? You've shown a glimmer of being rationale in the past, talking about your immigrant wife, and being texan in texas. You've been pro gun on numerous occasions and here we have a card carrying gun holder shot by the government, but because he disagrees with your politics, well, sh*t, gunning him down was his fault. Seriously. You're an embarrassment as an American.
it will be a successful launch, and a very, very, anxious re-entry. if it was easy, SpaceX would have done it last year. cheers.
I went looking for Saturn’s rings
for scaffolds made of light
and found a stranger shoreline there
a place with no ground in sight
Because surface can be a rumor
in a planet built of air
a height where pressure loosens up
where buoyancy is fair
Not rock not sand not continent
just layered breathing haze
a calm between the crushing deep
and cold electric blaze
So picture this a bubble home
a cityseed a sphere
its skin a thin resisting grace
that holds a human year
It floats where winds are honey gold
in bands that never cease
a lantern in the upper sky
a drifting piece of peace
Below the storm’s cathedral chants
in thunder without shore
above the ring road glitters bright
a frozen ancient store
A million million ice bright stones
each shard a building clue
beams and blocks and pressure locks
from water’s broken blue
You want to build the rings oblige
raw matter laid in spin
You want the fire that powers dreams
the giant’s breath is in
the hydrogen and helium
close by immense unspent
a fuel sweet sea for fusion hearts
and engines confident
So let the archive keep this thought
this science fiction rune
not every habitat needs soil
or mountain or a moon
Sometimes a world is all around
a sky you learn to ride
and home becomes a floating word
in Saturn’s amber tide
SpaceNut,
When you actively seek out law enforcement officers to fight with, you should expect them to fight back, because that is what we train them to do. They are not obligated to twiddle their thumbs and wait for you to shoot them. All of this insanity could have been avoided by allowing those officers to do their jobs, then fighting a legal battle in court. If you attempt to fight a gun battle in the streets using weapons against people who are better trained and equipped than you are, the only likely outcome is that you lose your life.
When armed citizens go looking for a fight, yes, violence becomes more likely, and that’s reckless. But “they’re trained to fight back” is not a moral blank check, and it’s not even the standard we claim to hold law enforcement to.
Officers aren’t trained to win gunfights as a first principle—they’re trained (and empowered) to enforce the law while minimizing unnecessary harm. That means de-escalation when possible, tactical patience when feasible, and force that is necessary and proportionate, not force that is convenient, retaliatory, or emotionally satisfying. “You should expect them to fight back” is a description of risk, not a justification for everything that follows.
And “just fight it in court” is a nice slogan until you remember that court is slow, expensive, unevenly accessible, and doesn’t resurrect people. The legal system is exactly why we demand higher restraint from the state: because the government gets more authority, more weapons, more protection, and more second chances than the average person.
So yes: if you choose the street as your courtroom, you’re gambling with your life and everyone else’s. But the state doesn’t get to respond like a rival gang and then shrug: “What did you expect?” The whole point of professional policing is that the people with the badges are supposed to be the adults in the room—especially when someone else is acting like an idiot.
WTF is wrong with expecting that we can complain about our government and how our government operates without the fear of being shot down dead in the street like a dog? Looks like the leftist communists didn't need to vote; Trump boot lickers are more than happy to grab their ankles while cosplaying a day on Epstein's island.
I would like to claim here that my biggest interest in this topic is to see if we can find the structures that lead to social actions. I don't want a crying towel. I don't want to pronounce a judgment. I want to explore why things that go bump in the night do so.
I am going to talk gender a bit. I want it understood, that if indeed boys are picked on in the system, I don't necessarily think that is bad. It may be a gift to a boy, that he understands that he will be exploited for any talent he has and will be resented for having any. He also needs to know that if he seems to be of no use he will be despised, and methods may be found to destroy him. It is a gift for him to see that that is true so that he can make is best decisions.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE Quote:
Proof Science Lied: Men Are An Underclass & Discriminated
YouTube
Based Camp with Simone & Malcolm Collins
23 viewsI also want to talk about the impact of computers and robots.
My theory of reality in the west at least is that a few ruler men preside over the hive mind, and particularly that hive mind of the female portion. For instance, the leader of a church traditionally male and the congregation, below that in perceived power. And the commoner males below the above-mentioned apparatus. In the west Ceasar usually a King, takes some of the other powers.
It is my perception that Western Europe has fallen into a mode of "Blood Lust". And Canada its supplicant also exhibits some of that as well. And we have in in our lefties in the USA as well.
Where does this motivation to put men to the slaughter come from? It has happened again and again with the Western Europeans.
A point of suspicion is the import of 3rd world men. Possibly as a war resource. The British did use non-Europeans against Europeans, I think both in WW2 and WWII. Also, I was told that Hitler hoped to conquest Central Asia where he hoped to get an endless supply of fighters for his armies.
The British actively harmed the Afrikaners in the Boer war. Even put them into concentration camps.
So there is plenty of evidence that the Europeans will harm the descendants of those who left Europe, even if they are similar in culture. There is no race love. In fact I think that the Europeans in Europe find Americans and other migrated peoples as a problem, as they may make it hard to exploit places where such people compete with their desires.
But the age of Robots and Computers may make this game a failure for them this time.
I have seen said by https://www.prometheanaction.com/ that Europe is ruled by Matriarch linages.
I entertain their ideas. They of course are anti-B and maybe anti-E.
And I you don't like that I do this then I say you need to show me how their notions are wrong. That is how we do it we deal with truth if we can. We don't go all troglodyte and exercise blood lust.
For my part I have theories about reality. I expect some of them to be disproved. That is one purpose to propose them. To find out what is not true, even if you don't yet know what is true.
At this time I entertain the idea of a Binary Fourth Turning. That is a Yin/Yang sort of it. From about the 20's that last masculine turning was on it's death bed. And I think that the feminine turning was on it's death bead around 2008. These are not established and proven, only speculative place holders of reality.
Western Europe however may be a constant feminine.
As I recall Carl Jung, said that the Catholic was Feminine, and I hold that the Anglican is also very much the same.
As I recall it, he said that the Male unconscious is based on his mother figure. The female unconsciousness is based on a mosaic of males who influenced her.
So, if indeed matriarchs rule Western Europe, then their subconscious is that of collections of men who were in their lives.
The Matriarch knows that she will not have to do trench warfare with bayonets. So, then to send the men out to weed out the weaklings and perhaps to bring home war booty? I think matriarchs may not be able to handle the masculine well. Not trained as boys are to understand their limits or usually to get their butts kicked. That is a good learning for boys.
I think that the afront they displayed about Greenland was a good pinch test. To test a dog, you might pinch it to see it's reaction. The result was not good at all.
This is a very valuable thing to know.
The E.U. was Satanic in its behavior. NATO was much more reasonable.
But the possible danger that Europe and Canada will try to use 3rd world people to murder off communities of Americans, does exist.
But now we know about this possible danger.
Computers and Robots are a possible response.
But if computers and robots raise boys, I worry a bit that they will be too soft on the boys, and the boys will not understand the dangers that social structure present.
Ending Pending
Your “thesis” is basically a mood board of grievances dressed up as sociology: you start by claiming you want structures and evidence, then immediately switch to vibes, labels, and conspiracy-shaped shortcuts.
You say you don’t want a “crying towel,” but the entire piece is a self-soothing story where every complicated outcome has one convenient villain: “matriarchs,” “hive minds,” “lefties,” “Europe,” “third world men,” take your pick. It’s not analysis, it’s a blame buffet.
The logic is also impressively self-sealing: when men suffer, it proves men are oppressed; when men succeed, it proves men are exploited; when someone disagrees, it proves “blood lust.” That’s not a theory—it's a horoscope with bayonets.
And the “evidence” is a YouTube title plus a sketchy website plus “I was told,” stapled to cherry-picked history you didn’t even get straight (WW2 and WWII... probably a typo, but hey, you don't have time for details, right?)—then you leap to modern claims about immigrants being imported as murder tools. That’s not “exploring truth.” That’s paranoia doing improv.
If you actually want structures that lead to social actions, try starting with things that are measurable: incentives, institutions, economic pressures, demographics, policy; rather than Jung quotes you half-remember and a fantasy matriarchy running Europe like a coven of HR managers.
Right now, your thesis doesn’t “go bump in the night.” It just rattles around because you’ve built it out of assumptions instead of facts.
"some conversations are better for when the airlock is open." - old Martian saying
you have kids because you want kids, and maybe it is a biological imperative that any conscious logical counter thought gets overridden, but the social and psychological reinforcements post birth result in a counter argument being moot. The impetus to reproduce will always exceed the impetus to not; darwin outlined this basic math.
SO MUCH. but just going to add this to my free thinking American friends. Calliban is a full class racist. I know he does "mars" sh*t. But come on, he is left of left field. But hey, play your "im going to listen to your ideology game." Just note what you defend or allow. kbd, your world view i reject, but you are not a racist. You see humanity. But come on guys, look at what you allow for the sake of engagement. Literally, if you do not publicly reject his statements you are accepting agreement.
clark,
Your "go ask your wife if she's scared of X / Y / Z" comment makes me think you actually believe I don't talk to or listen to my own wife. I attempted to teach her what I know about convincing other people to go away and leave her alone. She told me she wasn't interested, because "that's what she has me for". She's very far from the only woman with that attitude towards protecting herself from violence.
Then for the rest of humanity not enamored with being enabled, your wife is a data discrepancy. And you know it. Your talk big talk about freedom and being self-sufficient, and here you have your wife, "save me". She may not be the only women with that attitude, but it doesn't prove much of your point. Breed them victims. Genetics determines outcomes. I hope you see where this logic takes us all. Because if you don't, then research WW2 Germany or any period between, before or after the American civil war.
As for caring about the "2nd amendment" why don't your performative friends figure out how you support free rights to military grade automatic rifles while children die in elementary school. I mean, thanks for preventing, something, while 5 year old's don't come home from school. I appreciate your priorities. It's almost like we lost a "right" but thanks to the vigilance of those like you, a few dead kids means we get to keep that bump stock.
M
clark wrote:So here we have Calliban, girls need to keep their legs closed. Look, tiny little man, women can hump whomever they want. Your diminutive world view is sad. If people want to have sex, your religion is not a reason that should presume how they behave afterwards. You want religious reasons to dictate behavior then you invite all religions. Don't be stupid. you have some weird fetish, but you dont need to push it here.
Clark, what I propose is the only option that preserves complete bodily freedom, whilst avoiding the need to murder babies. It is called self-control. It means not creating a life until you are capable of taking complete responsibility for it. It means agreeing to respect a due process in living one's life. Before one can have sex, one needs to be married. One cannot be married, until one is capable of financially supporting a family. Getting into that position then becomes something that men can strive for.
This needs to be taught to people. It needs to be enforced by the law and punitive social codes that ostracise people that don't comply. It must apply to men as much as it applies to women. And the shame of extra-marital pregnancy should fall equally on the shoulders of both parties. This arrangement protects women from being caught in a situation that requires them to make horiffic choices. And it is an arrangement that we more or less had until the 1960s. It didn't please everyone. It could be cruel to those that were too weak to comply or those that were taken advantage of. The sort of religiously organised communities that we had back then were often stiffling and judgemental places to live in. But this arrangement was designed to protect people from harm, even if it limited their choices. Sixty years ago, birth outside of marriage was comparatively rare. Abortion was something used rarely, if a woman had suffered rape or was too weak to survive childbirth. Back then we had a sane society that protected women. Men were taught that their role was to be protector and provider. And most men lived up to that. People generally were more bound by duty and were taught to put duty above hedonistic pleasures. That always has to be a compromise, but people seem to failing now more than they ever have before. I want to see a return to a sane society.
What you propose is a return to repression. You propose this on a message board about people colonizing Mars, the future. You are a half twit and your out dated views belong in the basement in which they were written from.
And 60 years ago, in America, everyone was doing coke and f*cking. Society didn't protect women- that's a fantasy born out of your midnight fapping. Men were not held accountable for victimizing women. We have entire generations of mothers, sisters and colleagues all attesting to this.
Spend more of your time living your own life than pontificating on how others should better live their own lives.
clark,
Nobody forced my wife to date me, to marry me, nor to sleep with me. She did all of that by choice. Stop infantilizing half the people on the planet. Women have agency, just as men do. I'm quite certain that 50% of the men and women out there could "wreck me", by pure statistical probability. Someone else will always be stronger, faster, smarter, or simply more violent than you are. Anyone who doesn't believe that must not be very observant. Pardon me if I don't cower in fear at the mere fact that someone could hurt me if they really wanted to. Part of being an adult is not allowing fear or other emotions to control you.
Stop being obtuse. Or do you really think your one personal data point somehow translates to the lived reality for the majority of women? Are you not paying attention or do you actively ignore anything that violates your world view?
Talk to some women. Actually listen. Do you walk out to your car at night with your keys held as a weapon? They do. Do you consider the real scenerio that your drink will be spiked if you don't keep eyes on it? They do. Do you consider if people can hear you scream for help if you find yourself alone in a room with someone else? They do.
And no, as a man, you don't worry about these things. I don't because I don't have to. We don't because even though there are people stronger and faster than us, we are not targets. Women are.
"Part of being an adult". What a sad statement from you. You are better than that. Be a grown up.
clark,
Women already do have bodily autonomy. Women have the right to refuse to have sex with anyone, for any reason. I sincerely wish more women would exercise their right to not have sex with anyone they're not married to and also willing to have children with. I fully support the right of all women to not have sex with anyone they're not also willing to have children with. That truly would make abortion a non-issue.
As far as pride goes, I would be a lot more proud if you started acting like a grown man who is fully capable of reading / listening to differences of opinion without angry emotional outbursts over our differences.
I honestly don't know if my wife's sister qualifies as "chain migration" or not. My wife immigrated to America legally after the Viet Nam War.
President Trump has stated he's going to deport everyone who came here illegally. The internment camps are a machination of President Obama, but I doubt you paid much attention when it was a Democrat putting illegals into internment camps. Apart from the letter next to the name of the guy in office, I don't think much else actually changed.
How about some more substantive arguments? That'd be a nice change of pace.
They have bodily autonomy? Ask your wife. Women, in theory have the right to refuse sex, but, like a dipsh*t male, you don't realize that they don't. Wake up. Women live, constantly, in fear. Women live, constantly, worrying about the fact that 50% of the population can wreck them. You are a moron if you dont understand that women are minority and living under the aggression of men.
the abortion argument is now in a place where instance of rape or incest still require the mother take the fetus to term. as a man, you want someone else telling you to take a thing to term, because "god"? exactly.
So here we have Calliban, girls need to keep their legs closed. Look, tiny little man, women can hump whomever they want. Your diminutive world view is sad. If people want to have sex, your religion is not a reason that should presume how they behave afterwards. You want religious reasons to dictate behavior then you invite all religions. Don't be stupid. you have some weird fetish, but you dont need to push it here.
Hey Kbd512,
Yes Trump has stated he opposes a national abortion ban, but supports a national 15 week abortion ban. So I guess, to your point he doesn't support a "ban" as some view it, but does support a "limit" that effectively is a ban. You have kids so you know how discovery works from conception to realization. And while State's rights and local decision discretion is a good philosophy in most cases, basic human or citizen rights isn't one of them. US citizens should have some basic universal rights across all states, like voting, like freedom of speech, and like autonomy of your own body. And this is not even opening up the rabbit hole of having different medical rules, which is biology and science based, differing from state to state.
"Is abortion some sort of tacit admission that Democrats shouldn't be anywhere near children, because they have low impulse control, poor planning and organizational skills, and no ability to consider anything or anyone else beyond what they want at the very moment they want it?"
You proud of that rhetorical question? If I wrote it, I would be proud, but I'm a troll. So "slow clap", congrats. Look at you elevating the conversation by debasing yourself. I mean, it's not like the democrats can be like President Trump, and proudly proclaim that he can "grab them by the pu**y!". So, i guess the children will be safe, but lock up your b*tches, right kbd512?
"I would greatly appreciate it if everyone who ran our Federal government showed some kind of deference to my wife's sister, who has patiently waited her turn in line to immigrate to the United States from Viet Nam, for the past 20 years. "
Well, Trump has spoken out against chain immigration and he has spoken publicly about wanting immigration from "nice" countries, such as Norway, Sweden, or Switzerland. Not sure if Vietnam meets either profile.
Look, both parties suck on immigration and both parties use it as a way to demonize or leverage their base. The only material difference is that Trump is the one saying he is going to put them all into an internment camp. Do with that what you will. Hope your sister in law finds a path here!
Hey Calliban, you will be hard pressed to find anyone, especially women, zealous for "abortion". One of my previous jobs, ages ago, was helping to evaluate women who needed to seek an abortion. I was an 18 yr male, centuries ago, asking about their last period, using a little wheel chart to calculate gestational age, asking about number of pregnancies, number of prior abortions, and then handing out paper on their medical options. I encountered women, my age, younger, and often times older with several kids in tow. All of them, every single one, was dealing with a huge emotional burden. None of them viewed what they were doing as some kind of flippant birth control. All of them were embarrassed and dealing with something that was challenging.
Unless you've dealt with this choice personally, you really don't understand what goes into it. Unless you've faced people who have had to make this kind of choice, your ivory tower opinions are out of touch and condescending.
No one is "pro abortion". That's a stupid marketing gimmick and shame on anyone that feeds it. Everyone should be pro-women and pro-freedom. Women are not chattel. Their bodies are their own, their choices their own, and the weight of the decisions they sometimes have to make, solely their own. You and I have no right or place to impinge on their choices for their own body.
Save any moral equivocating. It's not your body, you don't get a say.
Meanwhile, kbd512, mr texas, says Trump. That's your guy, right or wrong, right? You don't wan't Harris. Cool. So Trump. So 15 week or less abortion. So maybe that is national, 15 eek abortion, so cool, that's what you support. And then we go for no illegal immigraation exepcept for what the software developers needs and farms. Unless they are too non-foreign, then we say no.
I expect, at a minimum, that the person responsible for speaking to our allies and adversaries has studied the cliff notes handed to them in the morning briefing sessions, and at least "knows" what the CIA has put in front of them, so that "The Leader of the Free World" doesn't look like a total moron in public.
HAHAHA. You mean the guy that says " info brief? fuck that. or you mean the guy that looked at the sun during the eclipse? oh, they guy that drew the weather impact on the map not grounded in reality?
Are you so broken you dont see?
Calliban is a dip shut. Slavery didn't end with industrialization Slavery exists today because of power imbalance. Slavery persists because there is limited oversight . this thread is a joke.
My reply is to kbd512; cool, you are disillusioned with both parties. I am there with you. You want to throw in with Trump and watch it all burn down? I understand. The adult in me says it probably isn't great for my kids. Take your gamble.
Trump will not give any of us what we seek, unless we happen to be billionaires that are funding the fight.
I cannot summarize 100 years of geo-political experience that resulted in the UN and NATO. I cannot explain the last 75 years of Great Power Politics that makes it clear why an active international engagement policy is better than entrenchment. Read your US history; when we disengage the aftermath is worse.
And communism doesn't appeal to "Jewish people"; you saying so just tells everyone you are a racist garbage person. Find another way to express your ignorance. I say this as a Jewish person, so if you have a problem with the feedback, look into your soul and eat sh*t.