New Mars Forums

Well, as long as the can of worms is open, I might as well help pry the opening a little wider!

I'm one of those in favor of terraforming, although more in a "soft" manner; by this, I mean that terraformation of Mars is not something that I think Has To Happen, no matter what's in the way; rather, I think, in general, that it would be a good thing to happen, but I understand that there are cases where it shouldn't be done, at least not in the sense we think of it.

In particular, the point you make about native Martian life is one I'm sympathetic to; if any is discovered, then there is a moral obligation to ensure that it doesn't come to harm because of human activity. Terraforming, of course, would probably upset whatever relationship Martian life would have with its current environment, and at advanced stages, would involve such a number of Earth organisms that native forms may very well be outcompeted. (If they're closely related enough to Earth life, I suppose that they might actually assimilate into the new biosphere; after all, Mars is home ground for them, and they might survive. But I don't think it's too likely.)

So, I agree, if life is there, terraformation shouldn't be undertaken. Human settlement, perhaps, if doing so doesn't damage or disturb the natives.

On the other hand, if there's no life there... if it can be proven with a reasonable degree of certainty that Mars is lifeless, or has life (say, deep in the crust) that is not likely to be vastly affected, I fully support terraformation, if it can be done.

Now, mind, this doesn't mean that there isn't a certain beauty to Mars as it is. Indeed, the first thing that got me interested in the planet were Viking's pictures from the surface... the pinkish sky, the red, rocky lands surrounding. I thought it was one of the most wonderful sights I'd ever seen. And yes, its ruggedness, its desolation, are the things that draw us there.

But humans, I think, once they ARE drawn there, once they get there, will slowly come to lose that sense of wonder. Mars, as you said, is different, and that moves us to go see it... but if colonists arrive on Mars, and stay for x number of generations, it's going to stop being different. They'll become used to it, and they'll marvel less and less about how beautiful it all is, and more and more about how their lives might be made easier, how they might be brought that much farther from mere subsistence on a cold, harsh world. And terraforming will be one of those ways, even if it has to be done little bit by little bit, if that's what it takes to make it affordable. It's a sad idea, perhaps, but people being people... oh, undoubtedly, there will indeed be those who wish to preserve it all, but it seems to me that such individuals arise a bit late. After all, human beings have been messing with

Unfortunately, I can't provide much of a rebuttal for the more 'practical' issues; it ain't my cup of tea, so to speak.   Whether or not the period of terraformation can be made more reasonable, I can't say; although I submit my (admittedly comical-sounding) opinion that colonizing worlds in the meantime that don't need terraforming is cheating. We should make our own worlds, not hijack others if they have such a high level of complexity, but that's just my view...

Oh, drat. Er... well, my Internet time for the night's almost up anyway. I guess I'll end my bit here. Just to let it be said, though, I'm glad someone decided to bring up the topic... thanks much, Stu!

Hello? Er, hi. I'm new around here, and I saw an empty forum with a topic I felt I might comment on (and thus maybe stimulate discussion, etc.)... and so, here I am.

Having entirely too much time on my hands, the question of Martian politics has popped up in my brain a lot. The first point I think I ought to bring up is that self-government might not come about in the first place, at least not immediately. The question of how the settlement of Mars might proceed will have a lot to do with the entities involved in doing the settling; will corporations seeking to exploit Mars try and bring in workers? Will individual governments sponsor having skilled populations moved there?

Any way one looks at it, the sponsor will have an interest in keeping some measure of control over the migrants and their works. A government is not likely to say, "Oh, we're going to settle you on Mars so you can be free to form your own civilzation"; a country that settles Mars would more likely view what it is doing as extension of territory, or at the very least of influence, and wouldn't look too kindly on the people it sent getting notions of liberty in their heads. And corporations, especially those that wouldn't consider themselves responsible to their workers, would see control of their employees to be vital, especially considering the amounts of money they would've sunk into getting to Mars in the first place.

My basic point here is this; as it stands now, colonization of Mars is not likely to be carried out by groups of people for their own benefit, to escape unfavorable factors on Earth and form independent nations. Space travel (and probably, when it comes, colonization) is controlled by organizations that are either under the domination of a government, or are private companies, because they are better able to fund such missions, and can acquire the resources needed to construct and maintain them. Because of this, they will have initial control of Martian settlements.

But, in all likelihood, this control will be tenuous at best, especially as time goes on. With such massive distances separating planets, how would an entity on Earth be able to maintain direct control of holdings on Mars? On Earth, communication is near-instantaneous in developed nations, and military or paramilitary power can be deployed almost anywhere within a nation's territory. But communications between planets is limited by lightspeed, and actual travel would take months. There will be a sense of distance, and that sense will make it extremely difficult for people on each world to have a good sense of what is going on on the other world. Hence, Earth institutions are not able to properly meet the needs of Martians, and Martians become psychologically less affiliated with Earth. Not only this, but it becomes nigh-on impossible for Earth to do anything should some sort of trouble (human-inspired or natural) arise.

Martians will already have become more or less self-sufficient. They probably won't want or need directions from Earth telling them what to do, and there is little to no way for Earth to enforce it policies; physically sending armies and police between planets probably won't be feasible, and so paid local enforcers will probably be the mainstay of security, and won't be equipped (and may not have the inclination anyway, if enough of them choose the Martian side) to suppress an insurrection.

There will probably be SOME sort of confrontation; entrenched interests don't surrender power readily. But, as mentioned, transporting an army to Mars wouldn't be feasible. Thus, what occurs will probably be relatively bloodless... perhaps a blockade of resources between Earth and the colonists. IF... and this is an if, at least to me, because I don't know enough to make a judgement here... if the Martians are self-sufficient enough by this time to survive without Earthly goods, and without selling Martian resources to Earth, then they shall probably win their independence, at least in a de facto manner... unless Earth tries something like dropping bombs on settlements, and I don't think that would be popular with anyone.

Well, I've said enough for one piece... comments? Rebuttals? Vicious threats made in my direction because I shouldn't have posted this at all? Feel free to take my reasoning apart at your leisure.